The $295,000 Beer - Church Planter Fired over Beer and Bible

Posted on April 28, 2010
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Many of you know Charles Hill. He's one of the guys behind THE STICKS conferences. Charles and his family recently moved to Utah to plant a church in a very difficult area of the country. Little did Charles know that he would soon find his church plant cut off from funding... all over a beer.

Here's part of an article from The Christian Post:

Very few things take church planter Charles Hill by surprise.

But when a group that agreed to support his new ministry work in the middle of a predominantly Mormon community suddenly pulled its financial backing and gave him the boot, he was totally caught off guard.

Hill had just begun to host Bible studies and reach out to the unchurched and those who were seeking something outside of the dominant religious preference in Utah – where the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is headquartered – when he got fired.

He was allegedly let go because he drank half a beer in public during the new “Beer and Bible” meeting he started last month.

While he was told that was the main issue, he doesn’t have all the details because he didn’t receive a phone call or e-mail from the decision makers, he said. His boss, whom he respects and who had given him permission to conduct “Beer and Bible,” broke the news to him a couple of weeks ago.

He now has less than 60 days before he and his family – wife and three kids – are cut off from all funding and left “abandoned,” as he put it.

“It’s troubling,” Hill told The Christian Post. “We’re out here trying to reach people as Jesus would.

“It’s still baffling to me that when your boss has given you permission that you can still get terminated for something such as that.”

Hill moved out to South Jordan, Utah, last year, leaving a growing church he founded in Ohio to answer God’s calling in what he says is the most unchurched state in the country. He gained financial support from a denomination – which he declined to name in order to keep things as respectful as he can – after being drawn to and recruited by a dynamic church planter (his boss) in the church body.

In a city where around seven or eight out of 10 people are Mormon, Hill said he prayed a lot and battled with how he was going to reach people.

He determined that bars and coffee shops were the few places that he would be able to meet with unchurched and non-LDS folks. He knew that starting a Bible study in a bar could potentially be an issue with the denomination, so he asked for permission from his boss.

He was given the green light.

But once word about the “Beer and Bible” meeting spread and reached the upper leadership at the denomination, the 36-year-old church planter was cut from the $280,000 support he was being given for his outreach and ministry efforts. He was only five months away from a church launch in a region where not one non-LDS church exists in 25 cities.

One of the leaders, who wished to remain anonymous, in the denomination released a brief statement to The Christian Post on Monday, saying: “It’s not an issue of immorality or improper biblical behavior. We simply discovered there were instances in which we were not able to reconcile our differences as it concerns general Baptist principles.”

Hill, whose father was an alcoholic, said he doesn’t even like drinking and isn’t much of a drinker at all. Though he doesn’t believe it’s a sin, one of the biggest reasons he hasn’t drank alcohol is because as a senior pastor, he didn’t want younger believers to stumble and drink too much.

You can read more here...

Here's a video for Beer and Bible:

I got to talk with Charles briefly at Exponential last week. He was truly discouraged, but knows that God is up to something. Take a moment to read his response here.

Here's what I learned (at least Charles' side of the story):

1. He asked for permission before starting the 'beer and bible' thing.

2. He was given permission

3. He was shortly thereafter told that the group sponsoring him was cutting ties (and funding)

4. Charles is pretty much in the middle of Utah with no funding just months away from launching services.

5. Charles has not heard directly from the group that was sponsoring him (other than they wouldn't be sponsoring him anymore). There seem to be no open lines of communication at this time. Charles has apologized (which I don't think he really needed to do since he asked permission) and even told the group he would not drink again. No response.

Regardless of your view on alchohol, this is not a good situation for Charles and his family. They are trying to reach an area of the country that does not have one evangelical church (but tons of LDS churches). And they have lost $280k in funding (that's about 95% of their funding).

If you can help, please contact Charles at his website (linked to above).

Todd

Comments

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John on Wed, April 28, 2010

Charles,

First let me applaud your attempt to become “all things to all people” I think the idea of going into a bar to do God’s work is a great thing. Biblically speaking, drinking a beer is not unbiblical. However, as a person who has been in law-enforcement, I know there are always two sides to every story and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. I’m am sure your boss has blame, but do you deny any personal responsibility? Could you have misunderstood what he gave you permission to do? There is more to this story than one side. Again, here me well, I am not looking for a blame game, scenario; “I love your passion and work”. Just trying to wrap my mind around it all in an objective fashion.
You stated in your your article that you didn’t want to be known as the “Beer and Bible” guy, but that is exactly what you are doing to yourself. I know you can’t see it now, but you are making a grave error. This press may be helpful in the short run, but I firmly believe it will hurt you in the end.
I understand your frustration and your hurt, but let God deal with these things. Otherwise, you fall into the same trap. “Turn the other cheek” I believe is a verse in the bible. You have not suffered any deeper injustice than Christ himself has suffered, and he was totally innocent. If you are in the right, let God vindicate you (and He will!) and stop playing the victim. I know you need to raise funds and support for the ministry, but is this what you want to be known for? Is this really the lasting mark you want to leave on the hearts and minds of those following you?
I do agree, something is wrong here. But step back and take a breath. I fear however you have mistaken “forgiveness” with “consequences”.
My words are not meant to hurt, but meant to call you to take a higher road than those whom you claim have hurt you. God will deal with the situation, He is far more capable than pen and paper. I love your work and support your desire to “go”. But if you let your pain drive you too long, it will taint everything you do.
Charles Hill on Wed, April 28, 2010

Follow up since I am now in the middle of this:

We came here to reach whoever would listen to the gospel of Christ. We do meet and do other things, this is just 1 of them.

And John…I am not crying about it, that’s not been my tone. I released where I was to the body of Christ. It’s up to Christ to bring the return.

My #1 goal is to bring awareness to church planting in Utah, and if people want to support our team…GREAT! If not, send some planters! We’ll be content to live in a tent if we have to.

And BTW: I was an inner-city cop in Columbus, OH metro before my call to ministry, and I can assure you…there is nothing more to the story.

Sorry. I asked for permission and got axed without a thought. Period. That’s why this is grievous and my family and our team are trusting God…not crying about it. My boss has since resigned as well…give him a jingle, I’ll give anyone his #

My wife is cooking a meal for Alpha tonight where we will minister God’s Word with unbelievers. That’s what we are doing about it right now:) We are just keeping on with reaching people…God will provide. He always does.

Blessings all! May God be glorified and may HIS kingdom come to UTAH and the world.
Fred on Wed, April 28, 2010

Religious people can’t handle a Jesus that would supply alcohol at a wedding. He would have been fired.
Peter Hamm on Wed, April 28, 2010

Fred,

Jesus was kinda fired… in a big way…

Peter
Joyce on Wed, April 28, 2010

I never respond to these blogs, but this one has me so intrigued.

I share Charles’s pain and frustration. I had a similar experience myself. I think it really stinks that this has happened to Charles and his family. But, I have a real concern with the whole story.

Stop ad take a step back to look at this from a totally different view. My concern is that the story shows Charles pleading for support because e was “axed without cause” and in doing so I think Charles is unconsciously turning people’s attention from the mission, to himself. Don’t get me wrong, I think it is terrible that he has been treated so poorly. ( I do agree with John, there has to be more to the story. Sorry Charles.)

I think that Charles wants people to give the work so that people can be reached with the Gospel in a dark place, not because he go “axed without cause”. I understand that people are enraged because of the situation, but that should not be what drives people’s passion to give to the cause.

What drives me is not that human beings do stupid things to other human beings - that is old news. What drives me is the deep need for the Gospel. Share tat story. I have only heard a little of that story. It sounds like there is a BIG need and that story is powerful ad is what will compel people. Again, I think John is right, “let God deal with it.”

Charles said that all he wants is to bring light to the need in Utah, but that is not the story. The story is about how he got fired for doing “Beer and Bible”. It’s a titillating story, that our culture seems to love, but it takes the focus off the real reason Charles is in Utah and calls people to give because he got fired, not because of the need for the Gospel in a dark place.

I know I will not be popular for saying this, but is how I see it.
Charles Hill on Wed, April 28, 2010

Joyce: Couldn’t have said it better myself. Good word.
jud on Thu, April 29, 2010

Why “Beer and Bible” and not “Bible and Beer”?

Just a subtle glimpse of emphasis. Is the cart before the horse?

It has been a long term tradition to appeal to the flesh then sneak in “relevant” Biblical text in there somewhere. Perhaps this is why there is very little difference between the Church and the World.

The emphasis has to be putting the Flesh on the Alter every morning. Kind of hard to do that when we mix HIS message with our carnality.

Do people who start churches like this ever think about the rather large percentage of our country that has a problem with alcohol?
Mark Jaffrey on Thu, April 29, 2010

Jud,

You said “Do people who start churches like this ever think about the rather large percentage of our country that has a problem with alcohol? “

They are trying to plant a church among unsaved people. So they are going to places where those people hang out. Which is in bars and coffee houses and all kinds of other fun places. When some of those people meet Jesus and he starts to transform their lives, and if they have an addiction issue with alcohol, then Jesus will help them deal with it.

Your comment is like saying “Do you think Jesus had any clue that people paid women for sex before he started hanging out with prostitutes?”

His words: it’s the sick that need a doctor, not the well.
John on Thu, April 29, 2010

I think the conversation is good, but Joyce made a good point. This story isn’t about the unsaved in Utah, it is about Charles Hill. Shouldn’t the story center around the need, not the “firing”? Isn’t that, after all, why he is there? Has the focus shifted from the mission to the person? Have the Christian Post do another story and let Charles tell of the great need. Let the story center around the Gospel.

Alcohol, whatever your view, is an emotional topic. Many well-meaning and mature Christians hold differing views. The one thing you don’t want to do is become the people you detest by being as ungraceful about the opinions they hold, as they are about yours. The one thing we all hold in common is the drive to share the Gospel.

Joyce’s point is right on! This story is juicy and something our culture thrives on. But next week it will be something bigger and better and the real story will be lost in the mix. That is the way the news works. Share the story. Let the focus remain on the mission not the man.
Duane on Thu, April 29, 2010

Hey Charles, I’m rounding up some crazy Canadians to pray for you guys and what you’re doing to reach the lost.

Keep fishing where the fish are!

Peace
Todd Rhoades on Thu, April 29, 2010

About this story being sensationalistic, or the post being about Charles getting fired rather than the need… I’m the one who wrote the story.

Truth told. If I had written the title as something like “Help Plant a Church in Utah”, we’d be up to about 5 views right now.

The story really does have 2 angles:

1. A church planting organization that pulls the rug out from under one of their planers. (That actually IS a story; and one that I think should be told).

2. Because of #1, Charles and his church plant is in jeopardy. That is the real focus I’d like to see on the story. I’d much rather see the church plant funded that rail about the injustice of it all.

Todd
ECN Broker on Thu, April 29, 2010

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Metatrader 4
jimmy on Thu, April 29, 2010

Horrible. This is a travesty. I’ve got a Bible study that meets on Thursday nights at a local bar. Tonight, we’ll lift one to you and your family and pray that God’s direction is clear and provision is undeniable.
Ken Eastburn on Fri, April 30, 2010

Charles, don’t let the money stop you. Do what you know to do and let God take care of the details.
Allen on Fri, April 30, 2010

I was a non-denominational seminary student, seeking a tradition in which to be ordained and there were several big questions for which I was seeking answers: 1) do they believe salvation comes through God’s grace alone; 2) do they believe in equal representation (e.g. ordain women to serve in leadership positions); and 3) do they let you drink beer? I love being Presbyterian for all of those reasons, and would love to invite Charles out for a beer some time. I may even wear my collar when doing so (just not in Utah, of course).