The $295,000 Beer - Church Planter Fired over Beer and Bible

Posted on April 28, 2010
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Many of you know Charles Hill. He's one of the guys behind THE STICKS conferences. Charles and his family recently moved to Utah to plant a church in a very difficult area of the country. Little did Charles know that he would soon find his church plant cut off from funding... all over a beer.

Here's part of an article from The Christian Post:

Very few things take church planter Charles Hill by surprise.

But when a group that agreed to support his new ministry work in the middle of a predominantly Mormon community suddenly pulled its financial backing and gave him the boot, he was totally caught off guard.

Hill had just begun to host Bible studies and reach out to the unchurched and those who were seeking something outside of the dominant religious preference in Utah – where the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is headquartered – when he got fired.

He was allegedly let go because he drank half a beer in public during the new “Beer and Bible” meeting he started last month.

While he was told that was the main issue, he doesn’t have all the details because he didn’t receive a phone call or e-mail from the decision makers, he said. His boss, whom he respects and who had given him permission to conduct “Beer and Bible,” broke the news to him a couple of weeks ago.

He now has less than 60 days before he and his family – wife and three kids – are cut off from all funding and left “abandoned,” as he put it.

“It’s troubling,” Hill told The Christian Post. “We’re out here trying to reach people as Jesus would.

“It’s still baffling to me that when your boss has given you permission that you can still get terminated for something such as that.”

Hill moved out to South Jordan, Utah, last year, leaving a growing church he founded in Ohio to answer God’s calling in what he says is the most unchurched state in the country. He gained financial support from a denomination – which he declined to name in order to keep things as respectful as he can – after being drawn to and recruited by a dynamic church planter (his boss) in the church body.

In a city where around seven or eight out of 10 people are Mormon, Hill said he prayed a lot and battled with how he was going to reach people.

He determined that bars and coffee shops were the few places that he would be able to meet with unchurched and non-LDS folks. He knew that starting a Bible study in a bar could potentially be an issue with the denomination, so he asked for permission from his boss.

He was given the green light.

But once word about the “Beer and Bible” meeting spread and reached the upper leadership at the denomination, the 36-year-old church planter was cut from the $280,000 support he was being given for his outreach and ministry efforts. He was only five months away from a church launch in a region where not one non-LDS church exists in 25 cities.

One of the leaders, who wished to remain anonymous, in the denomination released a brief statement to The Christian Post on Monday, saying: “It’s not an issue of immorality or improper biblical behavior. We simply discovered there were instances in which we were not able to reconcile our differences as it concerns general Baptist principles.”

Hill, whose father was an alcoholic, said he doesn’t even like drinking and isn’t much of a drinker at all. Though he doesn’t believe it’s a sin, one of the biggest reasons he hasn’t drank alcohol is because as a senior pastor, he didn’t want younger believers to stumble and drink too much.

You can read more here...

Here's a video for Beer and Bible:

I got to talk with Charles briefly at Exponential last week. He was truly discouraged, but knows that God is up to something. Take a moment to read his response here.

Here's what I learned (at least Charles' side of the story):

1. He asked for permission before starting the 'beer and bible' thing.

2. He was given permission

3. He was shortly thereafter told that the group sponsoring him was cutting ties (and funding)

4. Charles is pretty much in the middle of Utah with no funding just months away from launching services.

5. Charles has not heard directly from the group that was sponsoring him (other than they wouldn't be sponsoring him anymore). There seem to be no open lines of communication at this time. Charles has apologized (which I don't think he really needed to do since he asked permission) and even told the group he would not drink again. No response.

Regardless of your view on alchohol, this is not a good situation for Charles and his family. They are trying to reach an area of the country that does not have one evangelical church (but tons of LDS churches). And they have lost $280k in funding (that's about 95% of their funding).

If you can help, please contact Charles at his website (linked to above).

Todd

Comments

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Fred on Fri, April 30, 2010

Peter, Thanks for that. You are absolutely right. And I wasn’t even thinking about that. Seems like things haven’t changed much.
Jeff Humphrey on Sat, May 01, 2010

Charles, I say “Cheers” and keep on keeping on. I pastor in Twin Falls, ID which is also a Mormon stronghold. Our cultures are similar, those that don’t live in the “LDS” world don’t really understand the great gulf between the LDS and non-LDS people in our communities. In reaching the non-LDS people you have tapped into a goldmine. There are literally thousands of disillusioned LDS people that have walked away from the church because of deadness of their religion. Many have adapted a lifestyle and life choices that would allow them to drink coffee and go to the bars. These people are very hungry for real Christianity and a real relationship with Jesus and with people that are real. As you know, people outside of our LDS communities don’t fully understand this and the culture that we live in. Like you, I chose to Pastor in an LDS community and I have found many “Jack” Mormons (their term for “backslidden” Mormons) are looking for the real deal… When we show them real love, acceptance and forgiveness it blows their minds and they come to the cross of Jesus.

My only “hmm, that’s interesting” thought is that I know first hand that there are many very good and strong Christian churches in your area. There is a very strong network of Christian churches that are networking together in the Salt Lake area and regularly meet together, pray and have regional training. They are so prominent in the Salt Lake area they have had meetings with the 12 Apostles of the LDS church and talked about the difference between the LDS religion and Christianity. Many of the apostles left this meeting literally shaking because the power of the Holy Spirit was so strong. This group has many denominations involved (Foursquare, Assemblies of God, Calvary Chapel, Baptist). One such church is Pastored by a very good friend of mine in Draper, which is a couple of miles north and adjacent to West Jordan. The Adventure Foursquare church was planted about 10 years ago and is now running nearly 800 people. There is also large Calvary Chapels and AG churches. Your article states that there are no Christian churches in the 25 surrounding communities. My hope is that they misquoted you and that your situation was not sensationalized for the story. I hope and pray that you will connect with the other Christian churches in your community.

Blessings,

Jeff Humphrey
Pastor
New Hope Christian Fellowship
Twin Falls, ID
Clayton Coates on Sat, May 01, 2010

Charles,

Praying for you bro. It’s been a long time since we met while I was at Saddleback and you were hanging out in the green room while we did interviews with people. I am proud of your approach to reach out to the lost non-LDS-ers in Utah. I am praying for your funding and if it were not for 2 plants we have going right now we would support you. If God blesses this current location above and beyond, First BAPTIST Coppell will be glad to sponsor you. Until then we join you in praying for the support to roll in.
God’s will bro!
Clayton
Jason Salamun on Mon, May 03, 2010

Our church has hosted a Beer & Bible for some time now. In fact, Todd is using our graphic in this story.

From what I’ve seen, it’s been an amazing way to open up dialogue with folks exploring Jesus and for those following him to better understand why they believe what they believe.

I love what you’re doing Charles and I encourage you to keep doing what you’re doing regardless of the funds. If you don’t, who will?
denny barger on Mon, May 03, 2010

Most church planters I know, myself included, planted churches on a wing & a prayer, in other words, no financial support from anybody. Who wouldn’t go to Utah or anywhere else for that matter, with a quarter million dollar cash flow. It will be interesting to see if the brother actually heard a “call” or a “Ka-ching!” How will we know?
If he gets a job and plants a church regardless of financial support.
RevJay on Mon, May 03, 2010

Planting God’s church is our great commission. How we plant it is our interpretation of God’s commission. Bars and Coffee houses, why not? All locations are good starting places. Organizations that support church planters really need to consider the places one is likely to go, to start a Bible study. Applebees is a good place for a small, one-on-one or two place, but having a weekly study there is restrictive. Most people go to a restaurant after services for a bite. Taking too much space for a coffee-club or a nightly-beer, might also be restrictive.

The best solution I see is going independent and starting a church with folks who want to see one started. Paul was not opposed to holding a job while ministering in areas he didn’t have support. Support will come with the desire to see a Bible believing work started. Utah is one very hard area, but there are others out there too. Let go and let God, I wish I would have some 25 years ago.
PeterD on Mon, May 03, 2010

This is the way I see given the limited information, not that more is needed.

1. The leadership that he got permission from is being hypocritical.
2. If we were in Europe, something like this would not be an issue.
3. Obviously we know that the funding source is BAPTIST. That lends itself to it’s own set of problems.

Here’s a little humor I heard some time ago, and I think it applies extensively.
1. Islam refuses to acknowledge Judaism
2. Judaism refuses to acknowledge Catholicism
3. Catholicism refuses to Baptists.
4. Baptist refuse to acknowledge each other in line at the liquor store.

Do you get my point?

But in the US, it is not considered acceptable for pastors of certain brands of faith to engage in drinking of any kind. This is at best hypocritical.

I am a member of an SBC church, and I am most critical of the SBC. If we choose to be critical of any brand of faith, then we should do it from the inside.

I’m going to commit so support this ministry for one year. I hope all of us like minded hypocrites would join me.
rbud on Mon, May 03, 2010

That denom has a doctrinal statement in complete abstinence of all alcoholic bevs. I’m surprised Charles wasn’t aware of that. Nonetheless, it’s a rather small snafu to shut down an entire, and important, project. Admonition and encouragement would have been the better Christ-like solution, in my view. For myself, I’m not oppose to alc bevs with food, although I see no value in social drinking, and while I don’t generally drink, I’m not offended by those who do, and several of my most upstanding congregants drink beer & wine with meals. Short of intoxication, it doesn’t bother me.

More than anything else, it sounds like these folks weren’t pleased with the project and were looking for a way to shut it off. It’s a dishonest approach, but it happens often. Who knows, maybe someone else came along with an idea they liked better and they couldn’t wait to find fault with Charles. Maybe someone could offer them $200K to leave and leave Charles alone.

Go Charles!
PeterD on Mon, May 03, 2010

Seems ironic that so many SBC people drink alcohol, and not just with a meal. They see nothing wrong with it. Personally, I am only against drunkenness. The SBC doctrinal position on total abstinence from alcohol is not based on scripture, but on social norms in a society that abuses the drug. The next thing you know, they’ll be banning speaking in toungues. Oh, wait. They already do that.
dubdynomite on Mon, May 03, 2010

I found myself in a somewhat similar circumstance not too long ago, so I can relate to some degree.

You can read that story here:

http://dubdynomite.com/2010/03/29/part-1-my-confession/

Hang in there, Charles. I’m praying that things work out in spite of this.
Gary H on Wed, May 05, 2010

I am amazed. The need is so great. The fields are white. It makes more sense to regroup or change things up - but not pull out completely?? God must be up to something - organic maybe.
Phil on Fri, May 14, 2010

This is one of a number reasons why I’m more supportive of an organic / simple church setup than a traditional / denominational setup. Denominations are set up like businesses at the end of the day. How this was handled is not unlike how a termination of a manager is handled in many companies. The larger the church / denomination, the higher the chance things like this happen. Interestingly enough, this situation was precipitated because Mr. Hill was doing something very ‘organic’ in nature, hanging out where non-believers do in order to make relationships and connections (to reach people for God, of course).

My heart and prayers go out to the man and his family. I think they must have already secured another partner in this endeavor, though I’m not sure. So, praise God! In the mean time, my family will continue to engage in grassroots church planting efforts, supported by our ‘day jobs.’ We do attend a traditional church, and work together with them whenever possible, but do not depend on its support, authority, etc., to do what God has called us to do.
Gary H on Fri, May 14, 2010

Sounds like more ways to cast the net….
skoopsl8 on Sat, May 15, 2010

Keep on rockin’ it, @chazzdaddy!
I know Charles’ heart is in the right place. He gave up an established, financially lucrative ministry to reach the lost elsewhere—because that’s what God called him to do. I have seen Charles reach dozens of people for Christ in a single day. As a matter of fact, we had a youth group meet in our garage in North Alabama one night. On the spur of the moment, I asked Charles, who was guest speaker at our church that morning, to come speak to them. Charles shared the Gospel that night and twelve teens made life-changing decisions for Christ that night in my garage. Funny sidebar: The neighbors were concerned that so many teens were running around the neighborhood that one called the police. I guess they thought we were having a party for underage drinkers (there was no beer served). Imagine the officer’s surprise when he saw 50 teens in my garage praying and listening to God’s word.
Long story even longer: There are as many different approaches to spreading the Gospel as there are needs and ways people will be receptive. I know Charles’ heart is to reach the lost where he can find them, just as Jesus did. I continue to pray for you, Chaz, and your lovely wife and great kids. Keep doing the work, bro. God will provide.