Being Slain in the Spirit Can Be Dangerous and Financially Rewarding
- Posted on April 14, 2010
- Viewed 2814 timess
- (101) comments
A woman in Michigan has won a sizable monetary judgement against her church.. Here's the deal. Mount Hope Church held a service in which Judith Dadd got a little too much of the Spirt and fell, injuring herself...
Sounds like a Benny Hinn push gone bad.
But anyway... in her lawsuit, Ms. Dadd claimed her pastor defamed her when he accused her of insurance fraud, faking her injuries, and renouncing her faith. A previous jury had awarded Dadd $317 in damages for her injuries as well as slander, libel, and false light.
The most recent court decision affirmed Dadd's negligence claim (worth $40k), but reversed the damages for libel, slander, and false light.
You can read the article here.
Hmm... lots of questions here.
1. Would God allow you to hurt yourself while worshipping him? I'm not sure that I've ever heard of this kind of worship-related injury before.
2. What responsibility does a church have in this kind of instance?
3. Can we agree that it probably would have been good for the pastor not to accuse of insurance fraud and faking injuries?
4. But what if she really was faking injuries and committing insurance fraud? Should the pastor have been justified in calling her out if that's what she was doing?
5. Maybe we should change the terminology from 'slain in the spirit' to 'impaired in the spirit'. If she would have actually been 'slain', there would have been a lot more damages.
Ok. Time to turn off my mind. It's getting me nowhere.
What do YOU think?
Todd
Comments
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Peter Hamm on Sun, May 02, 2010
Amos, I want to stop beating this very dead horse now, but I truly believe that you are picking and choosing the scriptures you will prioritize based on how they jive with what you’ve already decided you want to believe. Examine to see if this is not the case.
For instance, you say in this most recent post [Jesus told �His disciples� not to be called �leaders� and none did.] The Bible CLEARLY shows, in its wholeness, that there are leaders on Earth, spiritually and civilly, and we are to submit to them. You are also using semantics to avoid leadership. Yes, the word “reverend” is not in the Bible, it doesn’t mean that there isn’t a spiritual gift of leadership (there is, surely) and that we are not to have people in authority over us (clearly, we are).
Sorry, you’re reaching, and imho, way too far, and I think your experience and pain is being used as a reason (I might argue more of an “excuse”) to be a lone ranger Christian in terms of authority if not in community.
A. Amos Love on Sun, May 02, 2010
Peter
“Clearly” you are using words that are not helping “clear” up this mess.
This is some info from the dictionary on my computer.
It’s about the word “Clearly.”
This is why I know longer use “Clearly.”
If it was really “Clearly” written in the Bible…
We wouldn’t be having this discussion…
There wouldn’t be !000’s, nay, many 1000’s, of denominations…
Rightly dividing the word of truth -
And “Clearly” disagreeing with each other in multiple areas.
“Clearly”
Exaggerators like this word, along with its cousins ( obviously, undeniably, undoubtedly, and the like). Often a statement prefaced with one of these words is conclusory, and sometimes even exceedingly dubious. As a result�though some readers don’t consciously realize it� clearly and its ilk are �weasel words��that is, unnecessary words that supposedly intensify the meaning of a statement, but actually weaken it. Just how much “clearly” can weaken a statement is evident in the following example, in which the author uses the word to buttress a claim about his own state of mind: �Clearly, I am not to be convinced that this is a small matter.� (Stephen White, The Written Word; 1984.) � BG
“Clearly” from this statement, “Clearly” is a very weak word.
Hope this helps when you are debating or teaching.
Love and hugs… A. Amos Love…
Peter Hamm on Sun, May 02, 2010
Amos,
Romans 12:8
1 Thessalonians 5:12
Hebrews 13:7
Hebrews 13:17
Clear. There is a place for spiritual leadership, and we are to respect those who are our leaders. What that looks like is not what I’m trying to argue, but merely the point that there is such a thing as spiritual leadership, it is biblical, and to ignore it, is dangerous, and the Bereans would never have done that.
A. Amos Love on Sun, May 02, 2010
Peter
You acuse me of picking and choosing scriptures to my likeing.
And - your point is???
Here are a few of my very favorite scriptures I never heard a
Pastor - in a pulpit - preaching - to people - in pews.
Hmmm? God has some tuff stuff for pastors - shepherds. - leaders.
Pastors…
Jeremiah 2:8
The priests said not, Where is the LORD?
and they that handle the law knew me not:
�the pastors� also transgressed against me,
and the prophets prophesied by Baal,
and walked after things that do not profit.
Jeremiah 10:21
For �the pastors� are become brutish, ( beastly, carnal )
and have not sought the LORD:
therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.
Jeremiah 12:10
�Many pastors� have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion
under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.
Jeremiah 22:22
The wind (Heb. ruwach=Spirit)
shall eat up ALL �thy pastors,�
and thy lovers shall go into captivity:
surely then shalt thou be ashamed and
confounded for all thy wickedness.
Jeremiah 23:1
Woe be unto �the pastors� that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture!
Jeremiah 23:2
...thus saith the LORD God of Israel
AGAINST �the pastors� that feed my people;
Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away,
and have not visited them:
behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.
A. Amos Love on Sun, May 02, 2010
Shepherds…
Jeremiah 50:6
My people hath been lost sheep: �their shepherds� have caused them to go astray…
Zechariah 10:3
Mine anger was kindled against �the shepherds,� and I punished the goats:
Isaiah 56:11
Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough,
and �they are shepherds�
that cannot understand: they all look to their own way,
everyone for his gain, from his quarter.
Ezekiel 34:2-10
9 Therefore, O ye �shepherds,� hear the word of the LORD;
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] AGAINST the �shepherds;�
and I will require my flock at their hand,
and cause them to cease from feeding the flock;
neither shall the �shepherds� feed themselves any more;
for I will deliver my flock from their mouth,
that they may not be meat for them.
A. Amos Love on Sun, May 02, 2010
Leaders…
Isaiah 9:16
For �the leaders� of this people cause thee to err;
and they that are led of them are destroyed.
Isaiah 3:12
O my people, they which �lead thee� cause thee to err,
and destroy the way of thy paths.
Micah 3:11
The �heads� thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof
teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money ...
Matthew 15:14
Let them alone: they be �blind leaders� of the blind.
And if �the blind lead� the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
Matthew 23:8
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ;
and all ye are brethren.
Rabbi - Strongs - my master, as an official title of honor: Master, Rabbi.
Rabbi - Websters dictionary -
an ordained teacher, The spiritual head of a congregation.
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord,
and do not the things which I say?
Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters.
Matthew 23:10
Neither be ye called masters:
for one is your Master, even Christ.
Master - Strongs # 2519, kathegetes - from # 2596 + # 2233 (to lead) -
A guide, teacher, master.
Master - Websters -
a man who rules others or has control, authority, or power over something;
specifically, a man who is head of a household or institution;
Job 32:21
Let me not, I pray you, accept any man’s person,
neither let me give �flattering titles� unto man.
For I know not to give �flattering titles…�
Jesus said in John 5:41
I receive not honour from men…
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another,
and seek not the honour that [cometh] from God only?
Luke 16:15
Ye are they which justify yourselves before men;
but God knoweth your hearts:
for that which is highly esteemed among men
is abomination in the sight of God.
Hmmm? Highly esteemed among men?
�Titles� and �Position?� and what comes with �Titles.�
Power, profit, prestige, glory, honor, reputation, recognition. etc.
Jesus… The Way, the Truth, and the Light…
A. Amos Love on Sun, May 02, 2010
Peter
You write…
�there is such a thing as spiritual leadership,
it is biblical, and to ignore it, is dangerous,�
Could be such a thing, you see scriptures that say there is.
I see the scriptures where Jesus teaches, don�t be called leader.
You are �All� bretheran.
And there is only �ONE� leader, the Christ.
And you can�t serve TWO masters.
Submit one to another. Consider others more highly then yourself.
Humble yourself. Make yourself of NO reputation.
If any man serve me.
Now I have to try and understand your �pick and choose� verses
with what Jesus and Paul taught in other places. Oy Vey!
Whenever you come together, �EACH ONE� has a teaching,
a psalm, a revelation. Wow! everyone participating.
Let the first sit down when a second has something to say.
See much of that kind of �Coming together� where you fellowship?
imo - the dangerous part is calling yourself a �pastor/leader�
especially when you DO NOT qualify.
Pastors/leaders have paid a horrible price for being in a postion
that is not in the Bible and which the can�t possible �Qualify� for.
If there is �Spiritual Leadership� where does it say
Pastor = leader? Where is that in the Bible?
NOT one person in the Bible has the �Title� pastor.
So �it is biblical� doesn�t refer to a pastor. Yes?
A. Amos Love on Sun, May 02, 2010
Peter
Believe it ot not I minister healing to pastors who are hurting.
They pay a horrible price for being in that position.
This is info from ministries helping pastors.
http://www.pastorcare.org/PastorCare/Healing___Health.html
� 77% say they do �not� have a good marriage.
� 71% have felt burned out or depressed.
� 70% do not have someone they consider a close friend.
� 38% are divorced or seriously considering divorce.
� Over 1600 pastors in the U.S. are forced out of their positions each month.
http://pastoralcareinc.com/WhyPastoralCare/Statistics.php
# 80% believe pastoral ministry has negatively affected their families.
..............Many pastor’s children do not attend church now
...............because of what the church has done to their parents.
# 50% of the ministers starting out will not last 5 years.
# 33% state that being in the ministry is an outright hazard to their family.
#1 reason pastors leave the ministry � Church people are not willing to go
the same direction and goal of the pastor.
You can try being an �elder/pastor/leader/authority� who doesn�t �Qualify.�
I woudn�t recommend it… Very dangerous to you and your family. Yes?
Rom 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me,
to every man that is among you,
NOT to think of himself more highly than he ought to think;
but to think soberly,...
When they wanted to make Jesus a king, (Leader of the people)
Jesus turned it down.
John 6:15
When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come
and take him by force, to make him a king,
he departed again into a mountain himself alone.
Jesus loves you just the eay you are Peter.
Jeus is NOT impressed with �Titles� and �Position.�
He knows our hearts… And loves us anyway…
Why isn�t Jesus enough?
Peter Hamm on Sun, May 02, 2010
Amos, Gimme a break.
You are trying to use certain scriptures to give you leave to ignore others. I’m not doing that.
Scripture has stern warnings and words against bad leaders and teachers, but you are using eisogesis to change the meaning of Scripture.
Are you saying that Scripture does NOT indicate that we are to respect and be in submission (of some sort) to our spiritual leaders? You seem to be. That is clearly not what Scripture teaches, in it’s entirety.
You are also, imho, seriously abusing a lot of the Scriptures you cite. (You cite, for example, Romans 12:3, which is only a few verses before Paul’s exhortation that leaders are to govern diligently. You cite scriptures that criticize “bad leaders” and assume that they are saying that no man can lead another spiritually. This is not the case.) Some good points have been brought to you by myself and CS, and I think you are ignoring them and redirecting. You cite some great studies that don’t show that spiritual leadership is not a valid concept, and use it to prove that all of us who lead in the church are somehow deceived or worse.
Look, I can’t say this without being rude. You are reading into Scripture, picking and choosing based on pre-existing beliefs and experiences, not allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture, and there is no way anyone can say anything to change your mind. So I think I will bow out of this conversation with a quick prayer that you can find a higher view of Scripture that is less, shall we say, “self-seeking”. You have been hurt, badly, it seems, (I’m so sorry about that) and you are allowing that hurt to interpret Scripture for you. I pray that you can recover from this.
A. Amos Love on Sun, May 02, 2010
Peter
thanks for the prayer…
Be blessed in your search for truth… Jesus…
dm on Wed, May 26, 2010
First of all church elders are to be in back of a person who falls.
This same thing happened to me. I fell down and hurt my back.
I though did not have the heart to sue although my insurance
company wanted to go after the church for my expenses. I am a born again christian. I let God take care and he did. He healed me. Romans 12:17-21 “Repay no one evil for evil, Have regard for good things in the sight of all men.” Although I am very careful now as to being slain as they call it in the spirit. I found out
all I need is Gods word to lean upon not just feeling and having an
experience. God did take me from certain churches and now I just
live by every word of Gods truth the Holy Bible. I use to go after
experiences such as that. Well the truth is all I need is JESUS and
his word. If it is not in the scripture than its just not God.
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