Building Your Church…From Another Church’s Hemorrhaging
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Tue, June 21, 2005
- Viewed 177
- (32) comments so far
We've all seen it happen. A neighboring church is going through a crisis. It could be financial challenges, moral failure, theological conflict...you name it. When this occurs in another church, it's easy to smugly sit back, shake our heads, watch the hemorrhaging, speak a few religious condescending words about the pastor, and warmly consider the people who might be in your pews over the next few weeks who are attempting to escape the pain. Is it church growth? Yes...but at the expense of a bleeding church...
Several years ago, when I took the pastorate of CFC, I had quite a few individuals come to me, sharing with me how we were so fortunate to have been the recipients of a large number of people from another church in the area that went through a triple dose of pain...a church fire, moral failure, and theological challenges. It was told to me on various occasions that the people who "came over" from the other church were invited to come to CFC as a "safe place" from the pain. These conversations were marked by grieving, disparaging looks, and frankly, some biting criticism of the other church's leadership. Since I had heard this from several individuals, including staff members, I felt quite confident that it was a fairly accurate story...but I never could place the church that had lost the people, because they had since changed their name.
As time went by, I began getting to know the other pastors in town through our Pastor's Prayer Alliance. One morning, as we were meeting at one of the local churches, the Senior Pastor began sharing his story of what his church had gone through. Immediately, I knew it! THAT was the church. THIS GUY was the pastor. I had HIS SHEEP in my church.
I felt conflict in my heart as I began to piece together the stories I had heard, his story and my emotions. I thought, "now that I know who HE is, do I just ignore it and move on...basically thinking, his loss, my gain?" I couldn't. God wouldn't let me.
I did something very scary after he shared his story. When the floor opened up for prayer, I was one of the first to go to the microphone. I stood there in front of my "senior pastor peers" and began to publicly repent for allowing my church to savor the pain and reap the benefits of my brother's hemorrhaging church. We cried. We embraced. We became friends.
He sat down with me and began asking about family after family, couple after couple, wondering how they were doing. I updated him on his people and pledged to him that I would never entertain another negative story about his church. In fact, it was at that point when I made a new commitment to my congregation: "I will not entertain nor will I participate in any gossip about another church or pastor."
That day, I was set free. That day, my church broke through into a new spiritual realm. That day, the wound on my pastor friend received some much needed healing. That day, I believe, heaven rejoiced and God poured a little more blessing on Saint Joseph, Missouri.
Wow, Tim... that's a great lesson for all of us. In the Kingdom of God there should be no winners or losers; no 'their loss is our gain' attitude. Yet in many towns and cities across our country, we've set up our churches as competition to one another; and actually sometimes rejoice when another body suffers. Each of us has the power to make sure this doesn't happen with our church. Make the choice to be a positive influence, not just in your church, but in your community for Christ.
FOR DISCUSSION: How has this story impacted you? Have you been on the giving or the receiving end of the transfer growth scenario? How has God worked on your heart and your church through situations like this?
Sheep stealing. Church hoppers. Transfer growth. In the church, we have all kinds of inside lingo for the way that churches grow. Many churches see a good amount of growth without really reaching anyone new in their community. Many times, you’re either on the the giving end or the receiving end; people leave your church to find another church; still yet others flee the church across town and find refuge and community at your church…
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Larry on Tue, June 21, 2005
Ouch. The Holy Spirit just pricked my heart. I serve in a very small church…VERY small—we average less than 100 on Sunday, which is about 90% of our membership (how many churches can say THAT?). I’ve never had a problem with the size of OUR church…I love it…close fellowship, lots and lots of kids and kids programs, great families. What I HAVE had a bad attitude about is the big churches all around us. When I say big… I mean we are 3 blocks from a mega-megachurch of the same denomination. They have about 18,000 members! I refer to it as “Ft. God” or “Six Flags Over Jesus” or “JesusWorld”. They have evey facility and program known to Christendom, and some unknown ones. And there are at least 2 over very large churches with 1/2 miles of us. I’ve belonged to megachurches in the past in several cities, and I don’t miss being a member of one. I guess what I miss is the budget and resources to do more and the ability to impact a lot of people. And then I remember the 5 loaves and 2 fishes. Mostly, I realize that no matter the reason for my attitude, it has been dead wrong. Yes, we have actually gained some members and had visitors from the large churches around us. But my focus needs to be the people who are lost and not a member of any church, and rejoice whether they join our church or some other. After all, we’re all just branches of HIS church. So I join with Tim in refusing to speak ill of any other church or its staff and repent of having done so. Thank you for this article. I needed it.
Phil Spottswood on Tue, June 21, 2005
I thank God for the healing that took place between the two pastors; the one whose church had been wounded and the church with the transfer growth. I want to add a warning to all pastor’s who take these new members in. Be careful, for many of the ones who leave when their is conflict in a church are the one’s who caused the conflict and “didn’t get their way”. If they did it in the church they left, you can be sure, in time, that they will do it in your church!!!
Kim Cannon on Tue, June 21, 2005
What a good story. Yes, I’ve been on both sides of the scenario and sad to say, I have been guilty of providing sanctuary and a listening post. I was convicted today of listening to things that I have no business listening to. I made a resolve to fortify the boundaries of my heart and mind and to keep oil handy for the hurting heart.
IEA on Tue, June 21, 2005
I have personally witness this occur twice in a congregation that I was a member of and served. On both occassions, the church that I was a part of served great pain and crisis. Many of the members left the ministry because it was too painful to endure. Honestly, I must admit that our church did not offer the needed attention to healing the hurt quickly. Nevertheless, the body was badly wounded.
On both occassions, two to three congregations within a 10 mile radius from our congregation became the receipent of many of the hurting members. What hurt me more than anything was that the receiving church or any church for that matter did not contact us. Unlike the author’s story, the receiving pastors knew who we were and just received the members. I can say that was most hurtful as a staff member and leader of the a bleeding church.
I promised to a friend of mine, who was a member during both times, that I would not do what was done to us if the tide had turned. He made the same promised. Interestingly enough, we both had to honor our words and we did.
If a local church is a part of the body of Christ and a part of the body is hemorrhaging, I would expect that some other part of the body would seek to help stop the bleeding. But even more so, I would not expect a none hurting part of the body to assist in the continuation of the pain and suffering.
In closing, the churches that received the wounded transfer members soon found themselves with troubled members who because of their pain they caused pain. I would venture to say that were ready to release most of the hurting. But even more, it is my prayer that they have learned a valuable listen.
Roger Reece on Tue, June 21, 2005
I have been in the pastorate for 28 years and if there is one thing I have learned it is that people who leave churches because of “change” do so, typically, because they did not get their way. In the past two years we have had a number of people leave our church because of all the “change” and have resettled in other churches in the area. I understand totally that change is very difficult for some people and church leadership needs to be sensitive in how they affect change. However, I find it interesting that the way some people solve the “change problem” is to make the biggest change of all - going to a different church with different people and programs - all new. Not one of the people that left our church left because of a theological issue. So, wherever they landed the pastor, sooner or later, will be dealing with the same issues I faced when they were with me. This is one of the reasons that I am very reluctant to take into membership any “sheep” from neighboring pastures.
len fisher on Tue, June 21, 2005
our church closed in oct 04. my choice. it actually voted to close two years before i arrived in 2000. most of the people left before we closed. most of them landed in other area churches. the pastors of these churches are pastors that don’t attend the ministerial association lunches. i wondered why there were never any phone calls from these pastors. thanks for your story. thanks for being sensitive to the holy spirit. thanks for being obedient.
Jerry D. Hill on Tue, June 21, 2005
As Baptists we allow someone to become a “Member” of our group by three methods, salvation followed by baptism, statement of their faith and upon acceptable proof of water baptism as an act of obedience to the commands of our Lord and the third one is a letter from the former church. This letter is meaningless if not truthful and witnessed by two or more witnesses. With the proper communication upon request of letter no feelings would develop upon unfounded information. Then if it is only the prompting of the Holy Spirit that led theses people to join our group of believers, then praise God for the increase in ability to serve. Pew warmers may pay tithes for our building programs but are of little use in the afterlife.
Jean LeBlanc on Tue, June 21, 2005
Believers are admonished in the Bible to use their individual gifts for the glory of God, because we’re all members of the same body. But why do we stop there? Individual churches are also members of the larger body within a city - so why don’t we work together as a whole? Megachurches are needed to meet certain needs; and small churches are needed to meet others’ needs for a small fellowship. We all can’t be eyes or feet - some of us churches are the smaller, less visible parts of the body. But we’re no less valuable or crucial to the ministry in our city. My husband and I planted a church that today still runs about 100 and lives in the shadow of 3 megachurches, and yes, it’s very difficult to not be a little envious. That’s why I believe it’s crucial for senior pastors in the area fellowship together regularly (ours don’t), compare notes, and perhaps help each other in their struggles and in finding their strengths and particular niche of ministry. I know of one megachurch who gave several thousand dollars to a smaller church whose youth ministry was exploding, but they didn’t have the funds to support it. Pastors, you preach to your congregants about being part of the body - but you need to go and do likewise with your fellow pastors.
Dr. Lewis T. Tait, Jr. on Tue, June 21, 2005
This kind of thing happens all the time in ministry. There are some ministries that are very intentional about stealing sheep from another pasture. There has to be a return to the biblical mandate of reaching out to the world with the gospel. The un-churched are many in these “yet to be United states” and it’s our Chrisitian duty to reach those who are lost. Jesus never gave his disciples a mandate rejoice over the down fall of another person. It is important that pastor’s pray for each other and support each other when things go wrong. If you stay long enough in ministry, something will happen and you will need someone who really cares about.
Leila on Tue, June 21, 2005
Pastor,I applaud you for being a real man of God.We need more leaders like you.Our Jesus would have done the same thing.God bless you and your brother in the Lord.That is why Jesus died that we might be set free with His true love.Amen?In His love forever.Leila
pjlr on Tue, June 21, 2005
Great topic! We recently had a church plant start advertising in a local paper. I was astounded to read “Are you tired of church? Is your church boring? Do you believe that the Lord is prompting your heart for a change? Then consider coming to . . . “
How blatant is that?
I came to a church 4 years ago which experienced it’s most major “growth” as a result of a couple of churches in town which were going through changes. Since I’ve been here, there has been a continual revolving door within our church and these other 2 churches. My repeated attemtpts to find a solution has been thwarted by a lack of cooperation from the other pastors. I have invited them to pastors luncheons to try to determine what is a better working relationship. I have called them whenever anyone from their church is attempting to transfer to ours. I have refused to accept new members from these churches unless they have a letter of transfer from their previous churches. All with little results. In the meantime I have seen some from our church leave to these other churches and never have been contacted by them. This grieves my heart.
I would venture to guess that only about 30% of our church’s attendance has been the result of people coming to Christ. The rest are attending (but not members) because they have not reconciled with the churches and pastors they have left. It makes for difficult ministry because I have a tendency to say it as it is and refuse to compromise on this issue.
Sometimes there are legitimate reasons for leaving a church. But there is a correct way to leave as well as a correct way to enter into covenant with a new church. I always instruct “visitors” to have a sit down with the pastor of the church they are contemplating leaving. I won’t take “I can’t talk to him” as a bonifde answer. I will then follow up with a phone call to speak personally to the pastor and ask for his advice as to how to handle these potential transferees. Until those loose ends are tied up, no official transfer.
I recall reading a survey a few years back that many evangelicals consider themselves as having 3 home churches. For example, they go to one because of the youth group, another because of the worship and a third for a small groups etc. The consumer mentality in our culture has caused a deteriorating view of what church is about. I don’t know if I’ll see this trend reversed in my lifetime. In the meantime, I’ll try to maintain my integrity and operate on the highest level of ethics in the hopes of changing some minds.
Thanks Todd, great topic.
David on Tue, June 21, 2005
People who leave other churches over “conflict” will end up being bad news in your church. I tend to watch closely those who come to my church from another “troubled” church., It usually turns out that they were the trouble!
Peter D on Tue, June 21, 2005
For several years now, I have always been leary of people who come to our church from other churches. I’m not talking about people who are new to the community and are looking for a home church. I’m talking about people who leave churches. I’ve learn over the years that there are a group of people who do just that. They go to a church until they get offended, then they leave. Not very often do I find a family leaving their church for GOOD reasons. Too many times there are issues that they have refused to resolve, and they just leave and come to my church. I counsel with them to make sure they are coming to our local church for the right reasons. I have told people in the past that they need to return to their former church and mend some fences before they can serve in ministry here. If they got offended there, they will probably get offended here. I’m quite frank with people, my main interest is reaching people who don’t know Jesus. I learned a long time ago from disgruntled musicians who left their church and invaded our local ministry. Word to pastors, You will get troublemakers from other churches. Keep your eyes open, and make sure that the transfer growth you get is for the right reason. If they want to continue in ministry at your church, try not to let them just jump in. And be up front with them, let them know that you have reservations, and that you have spoken to their previous pastor. Get to know ALL of your local pastors, and don’t be afraid to compare notes with them. We’re all in this together.
Mark Mitchell on Tue, June 21, 2005
I am Pastoring my first church. It is small, we are doing good to have 20 people on sunday morning. The church was once a vibrant church but has had quite an exodus over the years. I recently was tempted to encourage a member of another church, who expressed a desire to leave his church and come to ours, to go ahead and do so. Pastors we need to be teaching unity in the church. It seems to be forgotten. When a member leaves because they perceive all is not right and they are unhappy that is disunity. And it is running from problems. When one pastor encourages this by receiving this type of person he is encouraging disunity. God is not happy with this and prayed for us on this matter(John17). Unity needs to begin to be taught in the church again. My counsel to the fellow I am talking about is that he should sit down with his pastor and discuss it. And then I would pray with him. He needs to work it out not run. He needs to support his pastor in his church. God will bless his effort toward unity.
fsuchris on Tue, June 21, 2005
I left my previous church last summer. I had been there for 6+ years and had become a deacon, Sunday school teacher, worship leader and a trustee. We were small, around 60-70 on a good day. We had moved into a large facility that another church had vacated. Since we had been meeting in storefronts and schools, we thought this would be a great jumpstart to see our church really grow. Well, we were in over our heads. We couldn’t afford the building. We knew we’d have to leave there or close the church. I had lunch with the pastor, who was a good friend, and he told me we were going to close. But it was a different story a week later when he announced that we’d keep going. In short, my wife and I decided to leave. Several others had already left, and we felt it was the only option.
I read the comments above and some feel that these coming to your church will only cause problems. But sometimes they have truly been hurt by a pastor who saw them as threats to his ministry rather than friends who do love him and the church.
My biggest lesson in all this is to always remember that there are two sides to everything. If someone is afraid to let you hear from both sides, then they’ve probably got something to hide.
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