Caution to Haggard: You’re Deceiving Yourself
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Tue, November 18, 2008
- Viewed 79
- (28) comments so far
I don’t know about this one… OK… allow me to vent (and probably get myself in trouble...)
Haggard is selling life and disability insurance currently. Could that be a better fit for him in the Body of Christ?
I know that God forgives our screw-ups. And I am sooooo thankful for that. But is there a time, from a practical standpoint, that’s it’s just best, for the body, to bow out from practical ministry?
I can think of a ton of examples… some of which maybe should have called it quits, forever, from public ministry, and instead, celebrated God’s forgiveness privately while pursuing other careers.
I mean, if you think about it, there are tons of them… Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Sandi Patti, Michael English, Ted Haggard, Kirk Talley, Ray Boltz, Bishop Weeks, Earl Paulk, Randy & Paula White, etc.
Add to that the literally hundreds (probably thousands) of pastors and church leaders who fall every year morally who are shuffled around to another church, or returned to full ministry too quickly.
Some of these people can (and maybe should) have a future vibrant ministry and a public restoration. But I’m just not sure how many. I’m really torn.
What restoration is needed for a morally fallen pastor? Is the restoration process different from a ‘christian singer/entertainer’ point of view?
What if we just made the rule… look… you screw up morally and publically, you cannot return to public ministry in the same manner you enjoyed before… here or anywhere? It seems like that is one side of the spectrum that is not correct. But neither is announcing you’re divorcing your wife and then continuing with your sermon.
Would not having a ‘one strike and your out’ in public ministry be one added, very practical, thing for leaders to think about? Probably not. I still remember Ted Haggard sitting in that car with his wife (and kids in the back, I think) openly talking to the press, and openly untruthful about his situation. He put it ALL on the line. And lost everything. Is it too much to ask him not to try to regain it all back?
What is the proper balance?
Your thoughts?
Here’s the Deseret News Article...
There was an interesting article in the Deseret News about Ted Haggard and his first foray into speaking/preaching since his big scandal two years ago. The newspaper asked some of Ted's advisors about what they thought about his possible return to ministry. Interesting comments:
H. B. London: "Based on my experience working with recovering pastors, it would seem to be premature."
C. Peter Wagner: "He said in his letter to his congregation after he was fired that he is a liar and deceiver... He must have someone confirm him in the body of Christ" before he can preach again... Who besides Ted has ever stated that his restoration has been completed? No one."
Comments
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tim on Tue, November 18, 2008
This is the kind of thing for which there are no hard and fast rules for, and may even cause us to ask the question if the entire professional ministry paradigm is valid since it does seem to have a difficulty in coping with the grace and forgiveness the church is called to.
Leonard on Tue, November 18, 2008
One issue that will hang us up here is the connection to Grace and Forgiveness and restoring someone to a place of leadership. These are not the same. People can be forgiven and receive grace, but that does not automatically mean they should return to a place of leadership or a level of leadership previously held.
As long as we tie these together we will not have any clear answer. When a pastor falls and then does not finish the process and then seeks to return to a place of pastoral leadership (not saying that this is Ted) he is often tying together these two issues and in essence defining what forgiveness and grace is beyond the scope of Scripture.
Wendi Hammond on Tue, November 18, 2008
I agree with Leonard. We tend to assume that grace and restoration are synonymous. It serves Haggard’s own desires to link these two. No matter how much remorse he proclaims, stepping back onto the platform without the blessing of his advisors shows that narcissism and lack of humility are still having free reign.
Wendi
Stuart Dyckhoff on Tue, November 18, 2008
As someone whom has lived through a prior leader falling into disrepute through their actions and has subsequently seen that person ‘restored’ I feel I have some angle on this.
Yes we must certainly give grace, forgive and allow them to return to a semblance of normality, but I think you hit the nail on the head when you said “Who besides Ted has ever ...” - and this my issue with my former pastor.
He has never apologised. Never shown remorse. So how can he in all good faith stand up and preach / pastor to anybody especially in the area where he fell from grace?
I don’t have an answer - I wish I did though.
Mark Triplett on Tue, November 18, 2008
I once heard another pastor say, “We’re given one shot at a life on integrity.” He meant that once that trust is broken, it can never be restored in the mind of an unbeliever.
Should Ted be a Senior Pastor again? No! Could he have an influential ministry teaching a Bible study class at a local church or men’s group? Possibly. You have to live with your mistakes and learn from them.
What a lot of these folks do is think to say “I’m sorry, “ an d that makes it all better. Not in every case.
slw on Tue, November 18, 2008
As long as the confession of the failing minister was transparent and public, he or she should not be required to swim the English Channel to minister again. The Bible says that when an elder sins, he should be rebuked publicly, not that he should be hung out to dry or to dangle for us to poke and prod for some stated period of time, or to be disqualified for ministry. Are you saying, Todd, that grace and forgiveness is the message of the gospel but it doesn’t apply to ministers? I think Todd is out in the woods on this one.
Todd Rhoades on Tue, November 18, 2008
slw, not at all. In fact, I think Leonard said very well what I was trying to say. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
Todd
brett on Tue, November 18, 2008
Biblically, I would say that by grace he has been forgiven. Restoration to eldership/pastoring is another issue.
I think a move back into ministry would be ok as long as it is under someone elses spiritual authority and is NOT an elder/pastor position. Until his spiritual authority that he serves under restores him to ministry it would be premature.
slw on Tue, November 18, 2008
Perhaps someone could explain the biblical mandate for all these “wait and see” policies. I find nothing in the scripture laying out those kinds of courses of action. Honestly, are we not just making them up as we go, not on the basis of scriptural principle but vengeance, maybe even jealousy, or some other merely human concern? As long as there is transparence, I see no biblical justification disqualification or probation.
John Smulo on Tue, November 18, 2008
I struggled with this on my blog recently as well. I don’t think the way forward is to have any universal standard—1 strike or even 3. For some it will be 1, for others it won’t.
I think God looks at the context of the whole person and the impact it had on others, among other factors. We need to try and do our best to do the same.
CS on Tue, November 18, 2008
slw:
“Perhaps someone could explain the biblical mandate for all these “wait and see” policies. I find nothing in the scripture laying out those kinds of courses of action.”
I can’t find a specific verse that says, “wait and see if a pastor…”, but I think that Galatians 5 is a good sign of things that we should expect to see. Jesus used the analogy of, “bearing fruit,” throughout the Gospels, and then when Paul wrote to the Galatians, he laid out what this fruit looks like:
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness, self-control. (Galatians 5:22-23, NASB)”
Have see seen these fruits of the Spirit produced in Haggard since his time with being with New Life and follow-up treatment? If, “patience,” was a measurement, we could see that he abandoned his plan of counseling early. If we examine, “self-control,” are we seeing that when he mails former parishioners for money and begins a possible preaching venue again, when he has been cautioned by his elders to not do that?
Obviously, as I write this, I examine my own conscience even more sternly. For instance, I sinned this week, and then later had to speak to someone against that sin when witnessing. I was sorely convicted and repentant for that sin, never wanting to do it again. And, I look at my own life to ensure I am showing these fruits of the Spirit as well.
—
CS
shane on Tue, November 18, 2008
slw,
You make it sound like all Ted did was get cited for jaywalking. Let’s see, homosexuality, male prostitution, adultery, crack cocaine, devastating his family, his church, his friends, his supporters etc…you really think by saying I’m sorry he’s ready to be back in the pulpit give me a break! I know what Scripture says, but we are to have wisdom here as well, my question is, “what’s the hurry Ted”? I know personally one of the men (advisor) who was helping Ted after all these things broke, and I can assure you , Ted does not have their “blessing” to be back in the pulpit, (yet). It’s only been 2 years, Ted I ‘m sure has many personal things he is still working through, I just don’t think he is yet ready to be restored to that postition. So is ther a biblical mandate slw? No, but their is biblical and heavenly wisdom…..
Peter Hamm on Tue, November 18, 2008
I don’t think any of us can know the answers to these questions unless we are close to the situation…
But… If Ted has submitted himself to advisors, and does not have their blessing to go back to ministry…
Oops…
slw on Tue, November 18, 2008
Thanks CS for the response.
Whereas I have no problem whatsoever with a waiting and proving period for someone attempting to become a church leader, once someone has crossed that threshold, the Bible tells us how to deal with failure while an elder (1 Tim 5:19-21). The biblical means is a public rebuke, not a semi-public scandal followed by a period of secret counseling and re-proving his or her qualifications.
Ted Haggard should have stood before his congregation, been publicly and specifically rebuked by another elder. He should have then publicly acknowledged the specific charges, and announced his sorrow over it, and his plan of dealing with and overcoming it. He could then have continued in ministry in an open and transparent manner, particularly over questions surrounding his failure,
If he wasn’t willing to be open about it, nor to be rebuked publicly for it, he should have been excommunicated.
slw on Tue, November 18, 2008
Shane,
I realize Ted Haggard did more than have an unclean thought, but I don’t see where that is the determining issue. If he had been charged with embezzlement or child molestation, things would be a bit different because of legal ramifications, but that wasn’t the issue in his case.
Are you saying that it’s wise to ignore the word? What kind of wisdom is that? It certainly can’t go by the name of heavenly!
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