Francis Chan: Called in a "different direction"

Francis Chan: Called in a “different direction”

Posted on April 26, 2010
Viewed 2064 times
(22) comments

This from CatalystSpace: After 16 years of serving as senior pastor for Cornerstone Church Francis is sensing the Lord leading him in a different direction. Despite not having complete clarity on what this means or exactly what is next Francis is stepping out in faith, something he has done for so much of his life. He announced this decision to the church yesterday no doubt solidifying the start of a huge transition for both the Chan family AND the Cornerstone Church family. The beauty of this announcement is that it comes in unified peace and hopeful harmony.

Comments

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slav on Fri, May 07, 2010

Why in the world do this “extra-biblical revelation” stuff get so trumped down by the evangelical community? Of course if someone says that God told him to steal money from the bank for his own gain, would be against scriptture. But if you mean extra-biblical info to be ” ” Go talk to John today after school about Jesus” or ” Go witness to that homeless man on the street” ” At 10:00 p.m. Chris will call you and you need to talk to him” AUDIBLY you hear that in your mind and it comes true or etc, youre crazy, and a fool! What, God cant speak to us anymore, b/c we have the Bible? What the heck is that, Bible never said God cant speak to us. It said its full scripture used to teach, rebuke, correct, guide, and all that is true, but does Bible say what I should do today in my life? Isnt the point of prayer to seek God and see what his will is?

And if prayer is drawing closer to GOd, cant we MEDITATE, when meditating islistening to God, and listening may be not thinking about anything and just staying and waiting for God to speak to us in words, or have a feeling of peace? Thats hwat happened to me and my friends and I have expereicned direct revelation about my life form my friends and many other Christians. FYI, those revelations were always correct as they revealeveld sins in my life. And also, my evangelical pastor, who also doesnt beleive in extra biblicalrevelation, told me how he was driving and heard God say in his mind ” Go stop by Jane’s church and talk to her” and he stopped on the way home and it was like a God send!

The whole cessatinist movement is wrong, and if you gonna call me someone who doesnt listen to scripture, you are being ignorant about God. YOure putting BIble as God! Of course all you bascially need is the Bible to learn about God, but why do we have Holy Spirit? To teach us and comforst us and guide us and speak to us too!

And please stop with all rebuking nonsense about how Christians like me who beleive in this stuff are not Christians. I have experienced this side of God with all the gifts of the Spirit mentioned in Corinthians, since they never disappeared.
CS on Fri, May 07, 2010

slav:

Yes, or no: Is the Bible totally sufficient as far as God needing to communicate with mankind?

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CS
Leonard on Fri, May 07, 2010

CS, I think the question you are asking is a mis-direction from the way God leads his people.

Yes the bible is complete and sufficient. but the bible does not tell me what church to attend, rather it tells me what the church is and how to serve and love Christ and others in that church.

The bible does not tell me what sermon to preach but rather what the sermons content and impact is.

The bible does not tell me what songs to sing on a sunday but rather to sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs.

The bible does not tell me what small group I need to join but rather that the early church met in homes and in large gatherings.

The bible does not tell me what church I am to pastor but rather it shows me how to pastor what ever church I am at.

It is sufficient? Totally and completely. Is it everything? I don’t believe it was intended to be everything. God the Holy Spirit leads us as well. HE will guide us and lead us and never contradict the scriptures. God uses the scriptures and I do not minimize their role or importance.

I am considering a shift in the ministry God has called us to. It is prayerful, it is humbly being sought with council and wisdom. It is also being prompted and led by the Spirit of God. What it will be, I don’t know for sure. I do know it is coming. The bible is filled with examples where a person or persons changed directions based upon the leading of God the Holy Spirit.

Slav, to make this about secessionist and not is also a huge misdirection. In all honesty I am not a secessionist but I do not care how real what you or others have experienced seems if it is out of step with scripture.
CS on Fri, May 07, 2010

Leonard:

“I think the question you are asking is a mis-direction from the way God leads his people.”

No, if people are saying that extrabiblical revelation is a necessity in leadership (e.g. “God gave me a vision”), that stands contrary to the sufficiency of the Bible for revelation from God. And that’s the big problem in the, “God told me to do this,” mindset.

“I am considering a shift in the ministry God has called us to. It is prayerful, it is humbly being sought with council and wisdom. It is also being prompted and led by the Spirit of God. What it will be, I don’t know for sure. I do know it is coming. The bible is filled with examples where a person or persons changed directions based upon the leading of God the Holy Spirit.”

Okay, but let’s take a look at this in a biblical and Godly manner:

-You have a decision to make.
-You read the Bible to see if there is any wisdom there.
-You consult with other Godly men to see what wisdom they may have.
-You pray and fast in this matter.
-You make a choice.
-God’s will is revealed!

What happens here if things turn out bad? That was God’s will. How do we know that? Because it happened. It may not be His perfect will, but it is certainly in His permissive will.

Compare this to the model used by Chan and others, which starts with extrabiblical and special revelation and it’s easy to see the difference.

—
CS
Brian on Fri, May 07, 2010

Why pray if you’ve got an all sufficient bible?
Leonard on Sat, May 08, 2010

CS,
I think you might be missing some pieces and misjudging a brother.

If you know Chan at all, he is most definitely in the word, prayer and fasting. These are the bedrock of how He believes God speaks to him.

It is through the study of the word that he gained this restless leading from God. I heard him say it as well as his wife. For her it was their deep study of Luke and a re-examination of their commitment to Christ.

I think you are labeling something as extra biblical revelation that is for him a biblical process and an attempt to live biblically.

When a pastor is deep in the word, fasting, prayerful and submitted to others and from this place senses the Leading of God’s Spirit about the needs and direction of the sheep he leads, this IMO is not extra biblical revelation.

Again the BIBLE is filled with people who heard from God and acted… Does God not speak this way any longer? Did the completion of scripture change the way God speaks? Did the compilation of the Cannon change the way God speaks?

To me the more dangerous voice is the one who takes a bunch of scripture out of context and creates a proof text by which to reveal some insight they and they alone have and are now to share. This is not what Chan has done or is doing.

Again, Yes the bible is complete and sufficient. but the bible does not tell me what church to attend, rather it tells me what the church is and how to serve and love Christ and others in that church.

The bible does not tell me what sermon to preach but rather what the sermons content and impact is.

The bible does not tell me what songs to sing on a sunday but rather to sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs.

The bible does not tell me what small group I need to join but rather that the early church met in homes and in large gatherings.

The bible does not tell me what church I am to pastor but rather it shows me how to pastor what ever church I am at.

To have vision is not IMO the same as having extra biblical revelation. I get the abuses. If the Vision trumps scripture, contradicts scripture then we both agree, there is a problem.

One final thought… The promise of God is not ease, therefore the will of God cannot be determined by ease or even success. i do not expect this new venture to be easy and in fact I believe it will be more difficult. It will be fraught with more danger and less security financially. It will require more sacrifice and lead my family into less certanty. But that is not the issue. It is for me seeing what God is doing already, listening to His calling and seeing the gifting and passion of my heart and life. It is discerning the scriptures for the principle of truth ( how faith is modeled) and the specific of truth (is what I am heading toward biblical) and the living daily in truth (is my life reflecting a humble, holy and submitted lifestyle) This is all about the scripture. It is seeking counsel of Godly people, using wisdom in how processes and timing are established… It is making sure my family is seeing what God is doing and finding confirmation in their faith too.

I believe this is the process that is right and I also believe it is the process Chan followed. His resignation was not telling the church what they were to do but rather following what he believes (through a process of prayer, fasting, a period of time, looking at scripture, listening to the counsel of Godly people and the unity of his family, and the confirmation of Godly witnesses) he is stepping down and pursuing the next chapter of what is means to serve Christ.

My caution to you is always this. You find fault in a lot. I have come to love you and your passion to see truth and scripture followed. I believe in you, but I caution you to be careful, finding fault everywhere is addictive. It feeds a part of our soul that Jesus warned us in Matthew 7. I am not saying we cannot confront false teaching or even judge what is plain. I am saying that when we look for problems we will always find them. This is the difference between being critical and discerning. Critical people look for and find problems everywhere. My brother, I caution you as it seems at times you look for problems…

Peace
Leonard
CS on Sat, May 08, 2010

Leonard:

“When a pastor is deep in the word, fasting, prayerful and submitted to others and from this place senses the Leading of God’s Spirit about the needs and direction of the sheep he leads, this IMO is not extra biblical revelation.”

But that’s the crux of this discussion. How do we exegete a feeling? How do we know that a leading is from the Spirit and not from something else (e.g. a, “burning in the bosom”)?

“Again the BIBLE is filled with people who heard from God and acted… Does God not speak this way any longer? Did the completion of scripture change the way God speaks? Did the compilation of the Cannon change the way God speaks?”

God speaks today still through the Bible, since we have His complete revelation that is sufficient for all of our needs.

“To have vision is not IMO the same as having extra biblical revelation. I get the abuses. If the Vision trumps scripture, contradicts scripture then we both agree, there is a problem.”

As we’ve discussed in other threads here, when we use the word, “vision,” it has the connotation of an inspired revelation from God (as in Proverbs 29:18).

“It is discerning the scriptures for the principle of truth ( how faith is modeled) and the specific of truth (is what I am heading toward biblical) and the living daily in truth (is my life reflecting a humble, holy and submitted lifestyle) This is all about the scripture. It is seeking counsel of Godly people, using wisdom in how processes and timing are established… It is making sure my family is seeing what God is doing and finding confirmation in their faith too.”

That sounds pretty much like the points I mentioned for making a decision as a Christian. =)

“My caution to you is always this. You find fault in a lot. I have come to love you and your passion to see truth and scripture followed. I believe in you, but I caution you to be careful, finding fault everywhere is addictive.”

You’re right, to a point, and I have backed off largely to learn how to be more discerning than critical. However, there is a lot of fault out there in modern Christendom or areas where it is just so squishy that it is undermining churches, and few are calling it out nowadays.

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CS