Monday Morning Insights

Photo of Todd
    .

    Future Lead Pastor Opening You May Be Interested In

    Future Lead Pastor Opening You May Be Interested In

    My church is starting a search this week for our next Lead Pastor.  Take a look at the announcement.  It will give you information on how you can apply.  And, if you have any questions, you can send me an email as well...  Here's the announcement:

    We are pleased and honored to announce that the Vanderbloemen Search Group has been retained to help New Hope Community Church in Bryan, OH select their future Lead Pastor.

    As the current Lead Pastor approaches 25 years of service, the Elders of New Hope have made a prudent move to prepare the church for its future by working with our firm to create a succession plan that will enable a smooth transition and hand-off of leadership long before the norm in most churches.

    New Hope is in a healthy spot, and poised for the future, since the church by God’s grace has grown over the years to be more regional in nature reflecting excellence through its programming and offerings.

    The successful future Lead Pastor will be a superb communicator, a visionary, and a small groups fan.

    Interested candidates can confidentially submit their resume here, or contact William Vanderbloemen directly at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address).

    I serve as one of the elders at New Hope, and we're really excited about finding our next Lead Pastor.  We know that God has a special person in store for us to lead us well into the future.  Bryan, OH is a great place to live, and New Hope will be a great place to serve!  We're a larger church in a smaller community.  Very mid-western.  And a really great place to raise a family.

    If you have any questions, please feel free to email me as well!

    Todd

    Comments

    if you want a Globally Recognized Avatar (the images next to your profile) get them here. Once you sign up, your picture will displayed on any website that supports gravitars.

    1. Kip Keith on Wed, May 26, 2010

      Amos/Cranky - I hear ya. Your “diatribe” resonates with me . . .

      Todd - all the same, good luck with your church’s search.

      Arthur Brokop II - ????? Sorry dude, but you lost me at “indevigulasm propagated out of the Greek world . . .”

    2. Katherine on Thu, May 27, 2010

      Cranky &  Amos,

      I am also with Kip on this one.  Your diatribe really resonates with me too—except I may have stated it differently. 

      God has used the church in its more institionalized form for many generations.  But, it seems like God is preparing His body to function in a new way that I believe is actually more consistent with scripture.  I believe the organic church model may be gaining momentum for such a time as this—possibly to prepare us for a season of persecution.

      Blessings,
      Katherine

    3. Peter Hamm on Thu, May 27, 2010

      Katherine,

      except this was NOT a post debating the future of the church, the value of the institutionalized church, or the church as we know it vs. some nebulous concept of an “organic” church of the future.

      Todd, thanks for allowing this debate on your site, but you really didn’t need to…

    4. Kip on Thu, May 27, 2010

      Peter, are you afraid of the debate?

      Just asking because you went to the tried and true “that’s not what this post is about” defense when a couple of people chimed in with an opinion that conflicted with yours. Come on, we all know the best blog posts can take on a life of their own, and Todd can sure post some thought-provoking topics, can’t he? Even when he doesn’t mean to . . . smile

      I think the institutionalized church as we know it is in danger. Not of dying out, Lord knows our programs and canvassing strategies will keep both the pews and the coffers full. But I believe we’re in danger of a Laodicean-like fecklessness as we lean more and more on our own wiles and less and less on the Holy Spirit.

      Frankly, there is a growing number of people who are weary (and wary!) of churches with abundant programs and extravagant budgets, who find the idea of a “nebulous” organic church refreshing.

      And there are also those who find it threatening . . .

    5. Katherine on Thu, May 27, 2010

      Peter,
      Please lets be gracious and not snarky.  I actually have attended a wide variety of churches.  Mega, small, church plants, medium size.  Right now I attend an “institutionalized” church that actually functions more like a house church/organic church.  BTW, I don’t think that organic church is “nebulous” at all. 

      I also have been reading this blog long enough (about 5 years) to know that bunny trails often result.  One of the things I have loved about this site, and has made me a faithful lurker, has been the lively discussion.  I have been disappointed lately though, because it seems that honest discussion and debate are discouraged.  It almost seems like some are threatened by disagreement.  I realize that often those commenting with opposite opinions sometimes do so in a biting fashion.  That never leads to productive discussion.  Lets respect oneanother’s right to have different opinions and instead of dismisssing them with a “that’s not the reason for this blog or post” type of comment, respond to their concern or point with a well thought out, respectful comment.

      When you post a post like Todd did that highlights the corporate direction the church has turned to, you are bound to get comments that disagree with this direction.

    6. Peter Hamm on Thu, May 27, 2010

      Yeah, we’re just gonna have to disagree here. I think that this debate might be great in it’s place and this isn’t it.

      And I understand a LOT about the “organic church”, and the institutional church is very organic.

    7. Katherine on Thu, May 27, 2010

      Peter,
      I thought MMI was a place for this type of discussion.  Perhaps it would be helpful for Todd to place parameters at the end of each post delineating what is and is not off limits for debate.  That would make this site rather bland in my opinion though. 

      And we may need to “agree to disagree” about what is and is not “organic” as far as church goes.  I just don’t see a lot of top-down, corporate,  performance/production driven churches functioning in an organic fashion.  (Holy-spirit lead with and emphasis on the priesthood of all believers.  My previous church’s worship leader scripted everything and had the schedule down 30 second time increments).  That’s not to say that it can’t happen.  In my limited experience though, the two terms seem antithetical.

    8. Peter Hamm on Thu, May 27, 2010

      Katherine, this was a post about succession plans, and one in particular. Off-topic is one thing, but it seems you’re maybe trying to shoehorn your point into a totally unrelated debate?

    9. Katherine on Thu, May 27, 2010

      Again, lets be kind smile . . . and I actually didn’t start this debate.  I was simply responding to Amos, Cranky, and Kip and encouraging A&C to present their points in a gracious fashion.  Sometimes a post does end up going a different direction.  That’s the beauty of blogging and one of the things that got me reading this blog. 

      Anyone at anytime can reign this baby in and get us back on topic smile

    10. Kip on Thu, May 27, 2010

      Well said, K.

      To that point, I have a blog and I would LOVE for people to go crazy on it debating this and that. Go off topic - I don’t care!

      Unfortunately, my mom and the other two regular readers just don’t get into it like that . . .

    11. Peter Hamm on Thu, May 27, 2010

      Katherine,

      I understand. I don’t suspect “Cranky” is capable of, and I know from history that Amos is not capable of the gracious dialogue you are interested in.

    12. Katherine on Thu, May 27, 2010

      Thanks Kip,
      I checked it out. It looks like a great blog.

    13. A. Amos Love on Fri, May 28, 2010

      Kip - Katherine

      Enjoyed your comments and encouragement to keep the conversation civil.
      These are important and sensitive topics for �The Ekklesia, the called out one�s, of God�
      and passions can often get the best of us.

      A while back, I started to notice that some of what I thought was �truth�
      from the Word of God was actually �traditions of men� �hand-me-down religion,�
      that makes the Word of God of non effect. ( Mark 7:6-13 )
      Stuff I had learned from �My� �Pastors/Leaders/Teachers.�

      I also noticed, that when you start to touch a man�s traditions
      he gets pretty upset. He rarely takes the time to hear the whole story
      and take it to God to see if it is �Truth;� for him. It�s often hard to admit
      that we have believed lies. Or that people we respect, taught us lies.
      I have been deceived by others, those I loved, and deceived myself.
      Don�t know it all now. So, in some areas, I�m still deceived. Oy vey! :-(
      When we�re deceived, we don�t know we�re deceived,
      we don�t always realize we�re believing a lie. :-(

      I was in �Leadership� and desiring to be a �Pastor/leader�
      who could �Lead� �My flock?� �My Church?� �My Way?�

      The �Title� and �Papers� would give me what I wanted for the �Position.�
      Power, Profit, Prestige, Honor, Glory, Reputation, Recognition, etc…
      My… My… Tsk…Tsk… All those things Jesus spoke against. Oy Vey!!!

      I started to notice that what I was taught about **today�s**
      �Pastors/Leaders,� wasn�t lining up with what was found in scripture.

      For starters - I found…

      NO - Pastors who were good communicators.
      NO - Pastors who were visionaries.
      NO - Pastors - in Pulpits - Preaching - to People - in Pews.
      NO �disciple of Christ� �calling� another brethren - Pastor, or �My� Pastor.
      NO �disciple of Christ� �calling� them self - Pastor or Leader.
      ......�ALL� disciples called themselves �Servants of Christ.� Hmmm?
      NO �disciple of Christ� having the �Title�or �Position� - Pastor/Leader.
      ...... Today that �Title� is written on - Diploma’s on walls, business cards,
      ...... office doors, Sunday morning bulletin, street signs, and more. Why?
      ...... Jesus, humbled Himself, made Himself of NO reputation,
      ....... took on the form of a �Servant.� Could that �Title� be an �Idol?�
      NO �disciple of Christ� �Exercising Authority� over another believer.
      ...... I was taught; You submit to me, NOW, your �God Ordained Authority,�
      ...... And, one day, when you�re a Pastor, people will submit to you. :-(
      ....... Power. Profit, and Prestige, is highly esteemed among men. Guilty. Oy Vey!
      NO - Pastors, separating themselves from the body, as �Clergy-class.�
      NO - Pastors counseling anyone.
      NO - Pastors marrying anyone.
      NO - Pastors burying anyone.
      NO - Pastors wearing special clothes.
      NO - Pastors going from one congregation to another. What�s up with that?
      ...... Elders, plural, matured within the group, when and �if� appointed, they were known.
      ...... Pastors,**Today** are Paid Professionals, hired from the outside, NOT known.

      And the list goes on…
      You could probably think of a few yourself.

      Is this the reason �Burnout� is such a problem for **today�s** �Pastors/Leaders?�
      Doing a whole bunch of stuff the Bible, and God, never asks us to do.

      IMO - Not of much of what we see **Today,** with �Pastors/leaders,�
      has any reference in scripture.

      Seems it�s mostly - �hand-me-down religion.�
      Seems �The Traditions of Men� are �mighty� in power to distract and deceive.

      Mark 7:13 KJV - Making the word of God of �none effect� through your tradition…
      Mark 7:13 ASV - Making �void� the word of God by your tradition…
      Mark 7:13 NIV - Thus you �nullify� the word of God by your tradition…

      Of course, these thoughts, NOT new to me, got a lot of believers thrown in prison.
      Some paid with their life.

      History declares… �Christiandumb� is often a bloody sport. :-(

      Especially…
      When you challenge the �Traditions and Doctrines of men� in power.

      Especially…
      When those with �Titles� and �Position� see their �Power, Profit, and Prestige,
      being questioned and diminished by those who �want to be �Led� by the Spirit,
      by those who are challenged -  **to follow Jesus.**

      Be blessed…

    14. Peter Hamm on Fri, May 28, 2010

      Amos, Amos, Amos…

      You decided what you wanted to find in Scripture and you found it there. It’s called “eisogesis”. Plain and simple.

      Again, I’m really sorry you had such a negative experience, and sorrier that you can’t get past it and only see what you want.

    15. Bill on Fri, May 28, 2010

      Amos,

      I�m with Peter in feeling sorry that you have experienced the betrayal that you experienced.

      But, I�m with you in your understanding of scripture.  I just wish it could come through without all the pain apparent in your writing.

      When I worked with an interdenominational missions agency, I loved the diversity in the church.  I loved how some churches were formal, others not.  Some were liturgical, others not.  Some large, some small, etc. etc.  To me, there didn�t seem to be a bad way to do church!

      Then, I became an assistant pastor in a mid-sized Evangelical church.  What I saw from the inside was completely different.  I saw the abuses of a hierarchical system.  I saw the Board of Elders told half-truths and manipulated.  I saw critical issues kept away from the board�s view because they may threaten the agenda of the senior pastor.  I saw hypocrisy from the pulpit, people belittled, and positional authority used to Lord it over God�s people.

      From the first week there, I began getting the impression that we were �playing church� and that the heart for true ministry that I knew from my missions experience would never be allowed to be part of my ministry in the church.

      I started developing bitterness toward titles, man-made authority structures in the church, formality, over-structuring, building projects, etc.  I battled depression, despondency, and demoralization. 

      I eventually resigned.  I just couldn�t do it anymore.

      Now, though, God is helping me to re-learn grace.  My family and I are attending another smaller church.  Guess what!  It has a pastor.  Some people call him �Pastor ....�  He gets a paycheck (though it�s not much).  He is seen as the primary �leader� of the church.

      But, he is humble.  He allows himself to be taught and instructed by others.  He doesn�t hide his agenda, doesn�t strive for the biggest and best building, doesn�t look down his nose at others, doesn�t pressure people to keep attending �his� church and never go anyplace else.  He consciously remembers that it is God�s Church, and not his own.  He lets others preach, teach, and exercise spiritual gifts. 

      The structure between the two churches is actually similar.  But, the attitude and affect are completely different.

      I agree with Katherine, that in time the institutionalized structure of the church will pass by the wayside.  It won�t be practical in a time of persecution and the price we pay to function like a business will prove too great. 

      But, that�s going to be a slow transition.  And, awesome people who love the Lord are still functioning in the institutionalized church.  I�ve learned that I need to have grace with the system if I am going to be able to let go of my bitterness.  I�m still in that process.  But, it�s happening slowly.

      In the mean time, I�m happy to have one man in my life who gives the �institutionalized church� a different face.

    16. Page 2 of 3 pages  <  1 2 3 >

      Post a Comment

    17. (will not be published)

      Remember my personal information

      Notify me of follow-up comments?

    Sponsors