Gallop: More and More Christians View Homosexuality as "Morally Acceptable"

Gallop: More and More Christians View Homosexuality as “Morally Acceptable”

Posted on June 21, 2010
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According to the Houston Chronicle and a new Gallop poll: Christians and people from other religious traditions have grown more tolerant of gays and lesbians. The percentage of Catholics calling gay relations "morally acceptable" has increased by more than a third in the past five years, up to 62 percent. More Americans also favor legalizing gay marriage.

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jerry k on Mon, June 21, 2010

Peter Hamm on Mon, June 21, 2010
I will continue to refrain from being confrontational on this issue unless and until I�ve earned the kind of relationship and trust that is warranted to engage in it peaceably.
——-Peter, I believe you miss my point. By and large, if you come to the point where you feel you have built that relationship to the point of engagement, and have a dialogue, the discussion will very quickly deteriorate into a battle. Yes, yes, I know that there may be the occasional illustration where that doesn’t happen; however, as a pastor I have not found that to be true.

And I might add, the Holy Spirit often times uses us to try and sort things out for those WHO DO NOT have the Holy Spirit within them. The Holy Spirit is NOT afraid of a little blood spilt on the behalf of truth—-If I remember right, the Holy Spirit prompted Steven, Paul, Peter and the others to say things that did raise the hair on the backs of their listeners———and it cost them much blood.
Peter Hamm on Mon, June 21, 2010

Jerry,

I’ll give you a good example. I have a friend that was living with his girlfriend. Saw nothing wrong with it, and rather than cut him off or offend him, I and some others found some ways to gently remind him, with grace, but with love and with firmness all together, that that wasn’t the way to go, and he should make that right. (There was a kid involved, too, and now there’s another on the way.)

I could have done what other believers had done before me (and maybe they planted some seeds, who knows) and gotten him to the point where he was going to be bull-headed and just say “I’m gonna do what I’m gonna do” and get out of my life.

Today, they’re married. (This has happened to a LOT of people we know here.)

The Gospel isn’t just about sex. This is what we make people think we believe sometimes.

Again… “Stop helping God across the street like a little old lady.”

The only friends I’ve had who were gay over the years have been non-believers. I don’t hold them to the same standard, and I refused to ever get into that discussion, when instead I can tell them about what Christ has done for ALL their sins, and they can decide if they want to follow or not. Then I believe strongly in the sovereignty of God and His Spirit who can lead them into all truth one way or another.
Christopher Fontenot on Mon, June 21, 2010

Peter wrote:
“If you want me to be sure to include a discussion about what sex is acceptable to God in every presentation of the Good News. Sorry� I won�t�

you seem to indicate that you think the truth of the Gospel equals God�s stand on sexual sin.”

I fail to see where you get that idea from what I wrote. As I wrote before, when witnessing to the homosexual community I avoid the homosexual issue all together. It will only lead to defensiveness on the part of the hearer every time so I avoid it at all costs. I know that the homosexual is hell bound despite of their choice so why should I bring it up? This is why the 10 Commandments are so relevant. They show people that they have failed the high standard of God’s righteousness despite their sexual choices.

I didn’t say you were not sharing the Gospel. My concern is this ludicrous idea that you must first develop a relationship with someone before you can effectively share the Gospel. It is this issue with American Christianity that completely dismisses the sovereignty of God in salvation because it assumes that God cannot use the Gospel preached to save the sinner unless the sinner trusts, likes, or is friendly towards me. I personally believe that there is nothing MORE compassionate than to tell someone how they can have eternal life and why they need a Savior. I don’t need them to like me to do that…all that is needed is for me to love them whether they believe I do or not.

This discussion about the acceptance of homosexuality as moral for the REAL Christians dovetails to the desire to evangelize homosexuals. If we accept this behavior, we will never share the Gospel with them. If we believe the Bible when it calls it sin, then we know their eternal destination at death if they have never trusted the Savior. If they surrender to Christ, He will make them a new creature and take care of ALL of their sins and their new desires will be to abhor sin and desire as well as pursue holiness.
Eric K on Mon, June 21, 2010

There is no us, and there is no them. Romans makes that perfectly clear. We all share the same brokenness as humans. Therefore, we are told to hate our own sin, not hate other peoples’ sin, and love everyone.

This issue will continue to divide, because most of us are no longer able to insist that gays choose to be that way, and sooner or later many of us will meet gay people who have “surrendered to Christ” and for whatever reason, the holy spirit has “made them new creatures” but hasn’t convicted them that they should become celibate.

How each of us deal with that reality when we see it is different.

For me, I choose to believe that for whatever reason, some people are gay and the best way for them to love God and live out their faith is in the context of a same-sex monogamous relationship.

For others, they choose to practice compassion and relationship, letting their gay friends eventually know that they believe the conduct to be wrong, but loving them selflessly and sacrificially.

Both these options are legitimate to me, since both involve putting the other person first and practicing love, while focusing on my own sin rather than others’ perceived sin and allowing the holy spirit to work in other peoples’ lives as he sees fit. It is God who convicts of sin, not me.
Keivn Harris on Mon, June 21, 2010

You all are right. The phrase that I mentioned “people don’t care about what you know until they know how much you care” is very cliche even though I still think there is some truth to it.
Christopher, on asking those that you are preaching to my main point is that you must investigate and learn about the culture that you are trying to reach. We do not just send missionaries to Africa that know nothing about the culture they are going to reach and the environment they live in, well I hope we don’t at least. It would just be plain irresponsible and would most likely be damaging to their culture. You learn from the people that live there about their culture, you learn the language, you start to learn what they think about Christianity, you raise up indigenous leadership, you relocate to where they are living and seek to live in an incarnational manner, etc. Yes, that will take time, but missionaries that are going to other countries do not skip the necessary legwork and just go over yelling repent and telling people how to live in the name of efficiancy. That is an attempt at cultural colonialism. I totally hear you’re call for the urgency of reaching people and respect that, but there must be a balance in preparation or we could risk hurting them even more and tarnishing the name of Christ in the process. I will think a little more about your call for urgency in reaching others, but I maintain that faceless theology is still destructive.
Jesus did not just come to earth telling everyone to repent (even though that was part of his message) but he became one of us. He became human, he became poor, he faced temptation, etc. so that we could identify with him. He heard heard the cries and felt the tears and in the shortest verse in scripture we are told that Jesus wept. If the gay community is just an issue/theological argument to you it will be hard to feel their pain and weep at the ways that they have been hurt.
I am not naive enough to think that you are going to agree with me, but I just ask that you would consider the humble spirit of Jesus in dealing with those that were caught in sin opposed to the self-righteous (not calling you self-righteous) pharisees that were telling everyone how to live. A humble spirit that seeks to learn from others and create a space where dialogue can happen instead of just preaching at can help others to put their defenses down and listen to you. Regardless of whether or not it is Biblical, it remains commonsense as it relates to the necessary dynamics for productive conversation to ensue.

Peace,
Kevin
Christopher Fontenot on Mon, June 21, 2010

Eric….that was a great post! Now, can you back what you believe by the Word of God? Please give us book, chapter and verse. Otherwise you are believing in a god that does not exist. You make some important distinctions in what you wrote. The phrases “to me”, “for me” and “I choose to believe.” The Bible tells us that there is a way that seems right to a man but its way is the way of death.

The Holy Spirit would never leave a sinner unconvicted of what God’s Word clearly defines as sin….celibate or not. No person regenerated by the true and living God would “live out their faith” in the practice of sin. They may be loving god and living out their faith in a monogamous same-sex relationship but it isn’t the ONE TRUE GOD and Jesus Christ our LORD. You seem to have made a god in your image to suit your belief. That kind of idolatry is eternally deadly. Repent my friend!
Leonard on Mon, June 21, 2010

When I share Christ with people on a personal one on one level, I never tell them about the good news unless I ask permission. After all these years I have never once had someone say, “no, don’t tell me that.” More than relationship is the matter of simple respectful behavior.

As for the question of homosexuality being more and more acceptable, there is an issue that is a bit frightening. What are we teaching our people?. In the war of popular opinion, this debate is eventually going to be lost. It does not have to be lost in the church.

I have several people in my church who think homosexuality is more of an alternative lifestyle than it is sinful behavior. One reason is we have reached so many people we have reached for Christ and their thinking is not fully transformed. Our task as pastors is to teach the word with grace and truth.

Sexuality is front and center in our culture but in the back room in the church. We have to figure this out… Now.
jerry k on Mon, June 21, 2010

Peter Hamm on Mon, June 21, 2010
Jerry,

I�ll give you a good example. I have a friend that was living with his girlfriend. Saw nothing wrong with it, and rather than cut him off or offend him, I and some others found some ways to gently remind him, with grace, but with love and with firmness all together, that that wasn�t the way to go, and he should make that right. (There was a kid involved, too, and now there�s another on the way.)
——-I have a couple right now in the church I pastor who live together. They have been attending since Christmas. We have a good relationship, and the subject will come up. When, not sure, but then we will talk about it. In the mean time, they have heard me address the issue in sermons and teaching. And I have no doubt that they will end up married.

However, I just do not believe the social, cultural dynamics are the same in dealing with homosexuals. I have heard of many, many more failures dealing with them in any way and scenario than victories.

We are just going to have to see things differently.

Peace
Eric K on Mon, June 21, 2010

Chris, I don’t delude myself into thinking anything other than we need to agree to disagree in the end

However, a couple quick points…

The Bible is not the Word of God. Jesus is the Word of God. However, suffice it to say that I can back up what I believe from the Bible, and you can back up what you believe from the Bible… we just won’t agree on the interpretation of each others’ citations.

As far as the “seems to me” language, sometimes that’s the best we as Christians can do. Certainly in Acts 15, “it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and us” to set certain restrictions and free the gentile Christians from other restrictions that others thought were scripturally mandated. So while I don’t take scriptural interpretation lightly, I also don’t think that any of us can have a corner on the “correct” interpretation to the exclusion of our other brothers and sisters.

“Celibate or not”? - are you suggesting that a gay person can’t even live a celibate life and be a Christian in your opinion?

I agree with your confidence that the holy spirit will do the convicting and work in other Christians’ lives; that means to me that I shouldn’t try to do God’s work for him. He may work in others’ lives in very different ways than I would expect, and I have to be open to that. Peter struggled with this with the food/cleanliness issues in Acts. And perhaps he never quite got it; he may have had difficulty understanding the freedom of the gentile believers for quite some time.

I’ll pass on responding to your suggestion that I’m not actually a Christian and I need to repent of my honest journey of faith and relationship with God. I hope you can at least see some of the problems with making that suggestion, despite how much more comfortable it makes you in your own position.
CS on Tue, June 22, 2010

Jumping back to some earlier comments….

Peter:

“That metaphor has always bothered me, and I think I just figured out why…

“If the man does not know and can not see that his house is burning, he will indeed need to trust you before he believes what you say, that it is burning.”

This is why I believe we should walk someone through the Law so that they understand the severity of their sins in the process. It’s like asking the man in the house, “Do you see smoke? Do you hear the crackling of timber?”

However, I, like you, don’t believe that targeting homosexuality explicitly is the way to go there. I’ve found that a person who stumbles over one sin is just as likely to stumble over another (i.e. lying, theft).

But, at the same time, I believe that calling homosexuality anything other than sin is a heretical stance.

—
CS
Peter Hamm on Tue, June 22, 2010

CS,

I wonder how many people would believe me if I walked them through the “Law”... if I didn’t know them and have some kind of relationship with them.

On the contrary, I wonder how effective the conversations, even the really short, sweet, conversations about Jesus are with the ones I HAVE established real friendships with.

I continue to believe that we falsely elevate this sin to the head of the class, as you have done, CS, in establishing that a person’s view on this is a litmus test for heresy (you throw that word around a LOT, you know).

In any case, this conversation has been about as helpful to the situation as I feared it might be.
CS on Tue, June 22, 2010

Peter:

“On the contrary, I wonder how effective the conversations, even the really short, sweet, conversations about Jesus are with the ones I HAVE established real friendships with.”

But would you say that you HAVE to have relationships with people before you can talk with them about Jesus, the Law, Grace, and other facets of the faith, in the pursuit and goal of seeing their souls saved, as others on this thread have indicated?

“I continue to believe that we falsely elevate this sin to the head of the class, as you have done, CS, in establishing that a person’s view on this is a litmus test for heresy (you throw that word around a LOT, you know).”

I agree with you here, in that this sin does get elevated higher than many of the other, common ones, and that isn’t always right. Part of it, I believe, is due to the drive for people to make it acceptable and even praiseworthy rather than speaking the truth. Part of it is also like there’s been this re-ordering of sins over the years, including some legalism:

Classic: Lying, theft, murder (and in the heart), adultery (and in the heart), anything else from the Ten Commandments.

Right-Leaning: Homosexuality, abortion, not voting Republican.

Left-Leaning: Gluttony, hypocrisy, destroying the environment.

As for using the word, “heresy,” yes, I do use that word often. That is because it is so often merited but not spoken of nowadays, with no one seeming to want to come out and say, “No, this is wrong, and runs contrary to Scripture.” But I take no joy in it at all, and wish that there would be subsequent repentance and turning to Christ in every situation.

Now, in this particular situation, is it possible that a person can have the foundations of the faith solidly shored up, yet in this one area say that they believe it is not a sin? How do we address that? I’m conflicted on it a little myself, but I think if we substituted in any other sin like murder into the equation, we would stand back and say, “No, that is wrong.” That’s why I draw the conclusion that such a view would have to qualify as heresy.

I’m curious, because I do appreciate you as a brother with whom I have great conversations, how would you identify someone who has such a perspective? Brother? Saved? False teacher? Apostate? Reprobate? Heretic?

—
CS
Peter Hamm on Tue, June 22, 2010

First, I would say that I concentrate my spiritual discussions on the people I have a relationship with. They keep me busy enough.

I have, as you do, a list of “core orthodoxy”. I consider that my list might be shorter than yours, and I allow that a Christian believer may continue to be, for quite a while in fact, mistaken about a great many things and still be saved. They may be sincerely and seriously wrong about some things, but still saved.

Consider the vast numbers of people who labored under severe deceptions throughout the years of the Church.

But I actually won’t get into the “orthodoxy list” here on this forum.

Blessings,
Peter
Brian L. on Tue, June 22, 2010

A couple of things that come to mind:

1. Acceptance by society does not equal truth. Most would say that sleeping together before marriage is okay, because most of society seems to be doing it.

My mother, when she was a Mormon, said, “Five million people can’t be wrong.” My response: “WAAAAY more people than that believe Mormonism is wrong. Therefore, according to your logic, they are right and you’re wrong.” (She put her trust in Christ a couple of weeks ago - some 26 years after that conversation!)

Millions of people reject Christ and reject the Scriptures. That doesn’t make them any less true. Majority opinion doesn’t make something true.

In this case, just because more Christians are viewing homosexual behavior as acceptable doesn’t make it right in God’s eyes, and therefore something the Church should embrace as true.

2. One of the things not discussed enough is that most homosexuals don’t view homosexuality as a behavior, but as an identity. Therefore when you say they need to “stop,” you’re saying, according to them, “Stop being who you are - gain a new identity.” Of course, in Christ, we are new creations - we gain a new identity, but that doesn’t enter into the discussion until a person has come to the point that they are ready for Christ.

My now-deceased gay father-in-law held a belief that many homosexuals seem to hold: you don’t really love me unless you agree with me. He was wrong in that regard. I loved him dearly, and my heart broke when he passed away.

3. One of the best resources I have ever come across is a book entitled, “Straight and Narrrow?” by Thomas E. Schmidt (InterVarsity Press). It describes the three main ways homosexuals view Scripture and how they think it justifies their feelings and behavior, then discusses how to refute these.

The author has gay friends and acquaintances, and you can sense his love and compassion for them in his writing, though he pulls not punches regarding why their views of Scripture do not hold up to scrutiny.

Besides my father-in-law, I have lost two friends to AIDS, and have other gay friends as well. This is not an ivory-tower discussion for me - it is personal.

Blessings on you all.
Christopher Fontenot on Wed, June 23, 2010

Eric wrote:

“The Bible is not the Word of God. Jesus is the Word of God.”
Jesus said “It is written, ‘Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’ ” (Matt 4:4, Deut 8:3)
“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.” (2 Tim 3-16-17)

Jesus is the Word and Scripture is the Word of God. Scripture is the best interpreter of Scripture. God has made a provision in Scripture to allow those who devote themselves to the study of it to find in the Scriptures the clear meaning of His message so that those who rightly divide it not only understand it but can teach it as well. You said:
“So while I don�t take scriptural interpretation lightly, I also don�t think that any of us can have a corner on the �correct� interpretation to the exclusion of our other brothers and sisters.”

Well then how in the world can anyone stand in a pulpit and preach the Gospel without a correct interpretation? The answer is found in 2 Tim 3:16 because it is precisely the Scriptures that are to be used to teach as well as correct error when it is spoken. I am afraid that you have a very low view of the inspiration of the Bible and the sovereignty of God to open the minds of those who study it to understand what He is telling us.

You wrote:
“Celibate or not�? - are you suggesting that a gay person can�t even live a celibate life and be a Christian in your opinion?”

It’s not my “opinion” that matters…it’s God’s Word that is truth. Scripture tells us that when God regenerates the sinner, He makes them a new creature and old things pass away. You cannot be gay and be a Christian anymore than you can be a Muslim and be a Christian. In Ezekiel 36:25-27 shows God’s power to change the sinner when He saves them. Until this happens, no one is a Christian no matter what they claim to be. If God has truly saved them then they are no longer gay. Will they sin? Yes. Will they still have homosexual thoughts or urges?....Yes. But sin will be something they abhor; not something they desire.

Peter wrote:
“...I would say that I concentrate my spiritual discussions on the people I have a relationship with. They keep me busy enough.”

So do I. It will amaze you how fast you can generate a conversational relationship with a total stranger. I know that the providential sovereignty of God puts people in your path every day as well as mine. I am not going to wait to make friends with them before I attempt to share the Gospel with them. Unlike you and others on this forum, I have no clue to the date they have with death and to delay an attempt is to play with their eternity. I trust in God’s sovereignty that no matter their reaction or response to the message, His will is done. I am watering or planting. Someone said we are missionaries or we are a mission field. Spurgeon said that if you have no desire for the sinner to be saved, then you are not saved yourself. Be sure of that. I don’t consider myself a better Christian than anyone…I truly don’t….but it shocks me sometimes the apathy towards the immediacy of eternity. I preached a message at the DMV in Baton Rouge one morning and the 3rd person in the line began to have a heart attack I had just finished speaking of our date with death and the judgment of God and no less than 5 minutes later, she was being wheeled out on a gurney and put into an ambulance. It is that serious….and we need to be about the business of telling EVERYONE!!

Brian…..good post.