H. B. London Speaks out on Ted Haggard’s Return
- Posted on November 23, 2009
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- (29) comments
Usually quiet, H. B. London is now speaking out publicly, saying he wishes Ted Haggard would have followed the counsel of his restoration team.
Here's some of what H. B. had to say to The Christian Post:
“The irony of all of this is that, from the very beginning, Mr. Haggard had been counseled to go to another city, complete his restoration program, experience healing in his family and with his addiction, and only then begin again. But, he has made a choice not to do that. We, who were members of his restoration team and those who served New Life Church as overseers, wish he would not do this. We feel it to be insensitive to a church that provided generously for him and his family for over a year after his misadventure. But, more than that, he violates his own words that he would not begin a new church.
Meanwhile, New Life Church and it's new pastor, Brady Boyd are taking the high road: New Life "will always be grateful for the many years of dedicated leadership from Ted Haggard and we wish him and his family only the best."
Haggards new 'bible-study-church' meets within one mile of the New Life Campus.
What do YOU think?
Todd
Comments
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Anonymous on Wed, December 23, 2009
Is there a guidebook on the proper time allotted for one to be restored to ministry? Or, is the Bible our guide? The last time I checked, the Bible is clear on restoration�however there�s no time period specified. While I do appreciate having counselors, imo, restoration is up to God. And God is faithful and just to restore those who have fallen off track after repentance.
Who are the real wolves in sheep clothing? Is it one who have sinned and repented� or those who are holding one sins against them?
Furthermore, no ministry has an monopoly on areas� if one feels compelled and moved by God to start a Bible Study from one�s home� even if a Church is in that area� then so be it� the more the merry� the harvest is plenty but the laborers are few�
Anonymous�
Anonymous� on Wed, December 23, 2009
Is there a guidebook on the proper time allotted for one to be restored to ministry? Or, is the Bible our guide? The last time I checked, the Bible is clear on restoration�however there�s no time period specified. While I do appreciate having counselors, imo, restoration is up to God. And God is faithful and just to restore those who have fallen off track after repentance.
Who are the real wolves in sheep clothing? Is it one who have sinned and repented� or those who are holding one sins against them?
Furthermore, no ministry has an monopoly on areas� if one feels compelled and moved by God to start a Bible Study from one�s home� even if a Church is in that area� then so be it� the more the merry� the harvest is plenty but the laborers are few�
Anonymous�
Steve Long on Wed, December 23, 2009
An example of someone who made a grevious mistake and did not rejoin the ministry is Judas. He had a conscience for what he did but scripture does warn us that there will be those who enter the flock who have consciences that were seared as if with a hot iron. There will be wolves in sheeps clothing. The sheep’s clothing part is to tell us that their twistedness won’t be readily apparent.
I can’t recall another example in scripture of a church leader having a moral failure where return to leadership was involved.
Perhaps Ted Haggard is an allright fellow now and people are free to support his efforts. I prefer to devote my energies in a community where the works of the leaders are apparent and consistently heavenly minded. I would find it difficult to have to always be vouching for a guy (explaining why I attend his fellowship) who has already had a spectacular public failure and may not yet have his affairs managed even though he looks like a sheep. I would rather devote my energies to explaing why I love Jesus than why I love Ted Haggard. Jesu will never disappoint me.
CS on Thu, December 24, 2009
Anonymous:
“Is there a guidebook on the proper time allotted for one to be restored to ministry? Or, is the Bible our guide? The last time I checked, the Bible is clear on restoration�however there�s no time period specified.”
Does Haggard now meet the requirements to be a pastor once more, as per 1 Timothy? Especially in light of going against his word and saying that his, “Bible study,” could qualify as a, “church.” That’s the real test here.
—
CS
Anonymous� on Thu, December 24, 2009
The Bible is filled with leaders who failed morally but repented and was restored to leadership… Consider David who committed adultery, deception, and murder� it was after his repentance the majority of the Psalms were written� Consider Peter who denied Jesus� it was after his repentance he was able to be used mightily by God� In fact, our righteousness is as filthy rags� despite our imperfections, God still uses us�
Allow God to use who He wills� pray for our dear brother� the Holy Spirit in us would allow us to see good in the evilest person�
Anonymous� on Thu, December 24, 2009
CS,
I believe it was the prophet Jeremiah who wanted to quit and convinced himself he wasn�t going to preach/prophesy anymore�but it was like fire that burned on the inside� when God has a calling on your life, you can�t help but preach� one doesn�t have to be a pastor to lead a Bible study� we should be praying for this brother not preying on him� in the time where the Bible is being attacked� we need more Bible studies� the question that�s should be asked, �Are we leading Bible studies in our communities?�
Anonymous� on Thu, December 24, 2009
It�s sad� we a people who supposed to preach and teach forgiveness aren�t so forgiving ourselves� we�re the only family that air our dirty laundry out� then wonder why the Church isn�t effective in our communities� We who are strong are commissioned to help those who are weak� not put our feet on their throats�
CS on Thu, December 24, 2009
Anonymous:
It looks like you’ve effectively ignored the heed of 1 Timothy in looking at this situation. David wasn’t a pastor. Neither was Jeremiah. And when someone is in a position where 150 people show up for a, “Bible study,” where they take a tithe, and where the person organizing it says, “I guess you could call it a church,” it must conform to what the Bible says. Otherwise, it’s heresy.
—
CS
Anonymous� on Thu, December 24, 2009
CS
They were national leaders� I didn�t ignore Paul�s instruction to the Church� however; Ted never called his Bible Study a church and he never said he was their pastor� I guess unless one is a pastor then they can�t lead Bible Study groups according to your proposition�
Steve Long on Thu, December 24, 2009
Anonymous
My comments were aimed specifically at restoration to leadership within the church body. You have mixed apples with oranges in and comparing David (an earthly king)‘s failure (which had to be revealed to Nathan the Prophet) and reflected on David himself with Mr. (and perhaps ‘brother’) Haggard’s failure (which was spattered in all of it’s gory detail into the public arena) and reflected on the name and majesty of the Most Holy One. When asking someone who does not follow Jesus what they think of Jesus Christ many times their private thoughts are of Mr. Haggard and Jimmy Swaggart, of Benny Hinn asking for money (something Jesus never did at His ‘evangelistic’ meetings..infact he provided the meals), of Jim Bakker and Jim Jones. ad infinitum. Now apples and apples would be to find one of the pillars of the early church who experienced a similar failure who was restored to his stature in the church.
The interesting things about the ‘pillars’ of our early faith is that they were uniformly faithful to the end. That did not mean that they were perfect but in the conduct of their lives the unbeleiver could bring NO ACCUSATION against them.
You have cast the expressed concern here about Ted’s recent efforts as an unforgiving spirit. I see nothing unforgiving in these comments.Ted did not offend against me and I have nothing to forgive him for. It is just a fog that you seem to be laying down to obscure the real issue. Followers of Jesus must make judgments within the body as Paul has written, I Cor. 5 “12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? ” The Spirit works in beleivers to keep the church pure through sober judgment of God’s mature children. Perhaps Ted has great qualities and has experienced a genuinely humbling experience. That still does not qualify him to return to his former estate….under the guise of a little ole bible study with just a couple of folks…125 or so.
Steve Long on Fri, December 25, 2009
Ps Anonymous,
The church is not failing because of what you describe as an unforgiving spirit. She is failing because we are defending immorality and debauchery in our midst and then going to the voting booths to vote in draconian morality laws against those who practice the perversion we decide is unacceptable. We are laughably hypocritical. Until Jesus becomes the central message and not big named fellas with megastar ministries who are not governed by elders who are close enough and empowered enough to keep a mega-personality’s mega-ego in check mega-public and mega-disgraceful things will continue to happen.
You see, the Elders in Ted’s prior work are not faultless here. If they loved Ted appropriately they would have been close enough to take action before disaster struck. My guess is that somebody(s) did know that there was a problem brewing and they did not take action.
CS on Sat, December 26, 2009
Anonymous:
“Ted never called his Bible Study a church and he never said he was their pastor�”
Um, that’s half wrong. He did, in fact, call it a church. And, typically, the person who founds a church is a pastor. So even though he did not say, “I am a pastor,” he’s trying to act in that role. Which goes back to his failure to meet the qualifications in 1 Timothy and Titus.
—
CS
Anonymous� on Tue, December 29, 2009
CS,
He jokingly called his Bible Study a church� and leading Bible Study groups isn�t reserved just for pastors or teaching elders� that�s every Christian job� (Disciples make disciples)� once again, how many of us are answering the great commission? How many of us have stepped up to the plate� when there�s a need to be met, one doesn�t have to have the approval of a hypocritical board� if I�m drowning, I�m not concerned if the person throwing me a life saver is qualified�
Steve,
I�m 100% with you against the style of ministries these brothers operate� but, I don�t waste precious time taking up polls on what the unsaved thinks about the church�
I do believe the Bible is true, �all Scripture are written for our profit�� when we consider David, Moses, Noah and many of the early followers� we have to take in account their imperfectness and the sins they committed� David (even though an earthly king) had the highest position in the land� and yes David was a representative of God (as Ted is)�despite their sins, they were continued to be used by God� we can�t be bias in our approach to situations because they fell when leading a mega-church� our approach as brothers and sisters are to be one of prayer for the fallen�
Steve Long on Tue, December 29, 2009
CS,
I see your point but here is the way I process this issue. In Law Enforcement (of which I am a member) when a Deputy or Officer lies their testimony is no longer useful to the Court because truth telling is vital to the integrity of the Court. I can be terminated from employment for failing to tell the truth. I can be terminated if I write a lie into a report. If I lie I will be decertified by the State Licensing Board and will lose my eligibility to ever work in Law Enforcement again. There are many other offenses that I can recover from in this occupation but lying is not one of them. If I am terminated for lying this does not prevent me from working in occupations periferal to Law enforcement but in areas where my testimony can spell the difference in the outcome of a trial I will never be employed again.
There are many failures that Mr. Haggard could recover from and still continue the work that he was called to but this is not one of them. Would you allow a convicted child molester return to a children’s Sunday School Class? No, but you might allow someone who got a traffic ticket to continue as a childrens Sunday School teacher.Ted’s testimony is tainted and it is tragic that this happened but just as Saul had the Kingdom of Israel taken from him because of his disobedience in the matter of the Amalekites (never to be returned to his family line) so Ted has lost the calling that he was called to. Saul tried to insist on preserving the kingly line for his descendants but it distroyed him and his family. I am concerned that Ted’s determination to pursue another start will cause further damage.
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