MondayMorningInsight - Leadership & Encouragement for Church Leaders

How Do You Measure the Success of Your Church?

Posted by: Todd
Posted on: Mon, June 30, 2008
Viewed 171
(38) comments so far

--The number of meetings that take place somewhere besides the church building

--The number of organizations using the church building

--The number of days the pastor doesn’t spend time in the church office but in the community

--The number of emergency finance meetings that take place to reroute money to community ministry

There are about 10 more that you can ponder here at BackyardMissionary.

So… what do you think? Any you really agree or disagree with? What would you add or subtract from the list this class came up with?

W. David Phillips had a great post over at BackyardMissionary.com about how to measure success in the church. He sets it up this way, "At my last doctoral class with Len Sweet last week, he posed a question to us that went something like this: Provide for me the metaphors that will describe how we measure success in the church in the future. We are prone to measure success by how many and how much. And we determine who is a great leader by how many and how much." What he shares next is the list his class came up with. It's a great list to ponder. As David says, your first reaction at some of the things on this list will simply be to react... Some will make you think. Some will push you a little. Many you probably won't agree with. But, thinking through some of these will make for a great Monday morning exercise!

--The number of cigarette butts in the church parking lot.

--The number of pictures on the church wall of unwed mothers holding their newborn babies in their arms for the first time.

--The number of former convicted felons serving in the church

--The number of phone calls from community leaders asking the church’s advice

Comments

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sam on Tue, July 01, 2008

Leonard,

I find it a tad bit disingenious that you bemoan the fact that the discussion went astray when you contributed to it by your statement:

“I think numbers is a great way to measure success”

What you fail to realize is that how success is measured within the church can affect the way people are engaged. When a church is deemed a success merely by the numbers they draw on a given Sunday, it has an effect on church plants and smaller churches because they think to be successful they have to draw large numbers to the Church service. And this mentality often leads to the “six flags over Jesus” church service. It often leads to a watered down Gospel. It often leads to a “Joel Osteen feel good Gospel”

Measurement does affect how people are engaged. And it should if proper measurement is considered. Adding to the inivisible church. Again, a small church that intentionally plants new churches when the reach a certain size is not factored into the stereotype prepetuated that small church equals a dead or dying church or a non-evangelizing church. The goal is not to grow the local church.

Leonard, I contend that one must talk about measurement when one talks about engagement because they often go hand in hand
Leonard Lee on Tue, July 01, 2008

Sam, let me correct myself here so you can understand me. I think the way he describes these numbers is a great way to measure success, especially if we are seeking to make disciples with people who are far from God. If you had read my WHOLE COMMENT you would have seen CLEARLY that this is what I was talking about.

I agree one must talk about measurement when one talks about engagement. But this is not about counting how big your church is or filing your pride bucket full as some might suggest, it is about how the church engages others.

This has been my point from the beginning. You have yet to actually engage the point of this topic, rather you seem content to blindly make this about how big or how many and why that is bad. Not the point of the post but so far your ONLY point. Go back an re-read the post, read the link, read your posts and answer this… How have any of your posts actually been about this topic?

Try not reading into someone’s words your own predisposition. Try actually placing someone’s words into context and not lifting a sentence from the context just to argue.
Peter Hamm on Tue, July 01, 2008

Sam,

I wonder if this helps.

Church A has 700 members and is growing by 100 a year.

Church B has 100 members and is growing by 10 a year.

Sounds like church A is “more successful”?

Let’s say further that Church A grew by 200 in the past two years by transfer growth because two churches in town closed their doors, churches that were not really making a difference in the community anymore.

AND… Church B has about 40 committed Christians in their midst, about 30 who are new believers and about 30 who are not yet believers, and the 10 that will be joining the church this year are mostly people who have not had any meaningful church contact, and don’t know what they believe or who they trust.

Church B is measured, imho, to be the “successful” church. This is probably the kind of situation that the OP is about, and I’m guessing it is what Leonard is talking about when he says numbers are the way to measure our success.
Sam on Tue, July 01, 2008

Leonard,

The orginial question posed was this:

“How Do You Measure the Success of Your Church?”

I have addressed this. Success is defined by following the great commission and adding disciples to the invisible church. Is a church doing this? That is it. I have stated this twice.
Peter Hamm on Tue, July 01, 2008

Sam,

You write [I have addressed this. Success is defined by following the great commission and adding disciples to the invisible church. Is a church doing this? That is it. I have stated this twice.] May I humbly suggest that what we are talking about is how do we know that we are “adding disciples to the invisible church.”

Now can we continue the discussion. I find that as we look out at our congregation here and see the people whose lives are fragmented and hurting coming together with those that have found healing and wholeness in Christ… and the hurting and broken are finding Christ to be the source and answer for their lives.

And can we see our people doing things and being the church in the community so that our church is known as a church that loves its neighbors and is our church one that has a reputation of being loving…? Because I want people to say “Wow, they love one another out there at that church, that’s how I know they follow Jesus…” I want to be known for our fruits, love… etc…
CS on Tue, July 01, 2008

Peter:

“May I humbly suggest that what we are talking about is how do we know that we are “adding disciples to the invisible church.””

Good question. I would answer that we know that God, through us, is adding people to the invisible church when we see people who are convicted by their sins by the Holy Spirit, and in response, repent and put their trust in Jesus Christ. Then, they become disciples and join their local churches.

Then again, we may preach and share the Gospel with people all of our lives, much like Jeremiah, and see absolutely nothing come about from people. This does not mean we were necessarily unsuccessful in following God’s charge in preaching to the nations, but that we were obedient and peoples’ hearts were hard. This is why the “success” measurement becomes problematic when trying to quantify it.

—

CS
Peter Hamm on Tue, July 01, 2008

Yes, CS… all those things. I guess my point is that that is incomplete.

If I have a congregation full of people who have been “convicted by their sins by the Holy Spirit, and in response, repent(ed) and put their trust in Jesus Christ” but the way they act and the way that they love others has not changed (which, I’m sorry to say, I’ve seen happen in churches), then I don’t have a “measurement” to show that I’ve been “successful.” After all, faith with no works is dead, and the world will know our devotion to Jesus by our love for one another.

I guess my point is that obviously we are trying to make disciples, but the questions we ask in terms of “measurements” should reflect the ways Jesus tells us that the world will know we ARE disciples.
CS on Tue, July 01, 2008

Peter:

“If I have a congregation full of people who have been “convicted by their sins by the Holy Spirit, and in response, repent(ed) and put their trust in Jesus Christ” but the way they act and the way that they love others has not changed (which, I’m sorry to say, I’ve seen happen in churches), then I don’t have a “measurement” to show that I’ve been “successful.” After all, faith with no works is dead, and the world will know our devotion to Jesus by our love for one another.”

Good point. I think I take the assumption that in salvation, when people repent and trust Christ, that their lives would naturally show fruit and begin to do those sorts of works. If people repent, their lives should be decidedly different from the ways they previously lived, complete with outward signs. A person who says he repents, but then does nothing afterward and continues living a lifestyle of sin, is most likely a false convert. Therefore, that’s why I kept my take on “success” at that level, and use Jeremiah’s example as a caveat.

—

CS