In Most Churches, the Attitude Toward Gays is One of “Live and Let Live,”
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, August 10, 2009
- Viewed 125
- (12) comments so far
How does your church handle gay attenders?
From Politics Daily: As America's leading Christian denominations are once again feuding and splitting over whether they should allow gays and lesbians to marry, or ordain them as clergy, is it a miracle there are any gay Christians? Given Christianity's history of exclusion and often outright homophobia, and the current bloodletting over their role, why do homosexuals bother staying, not to mention believing?
They do both in numbers that might surprise you: A new survey of 9,000 gay, lesbian, and ######## Americans from George Barna, a well-known evangelical pollster, showed that 70 percent of gay adults describe themselves as Christian and 60 percent say their faith is “very important” in their lives. Granted, those figures are lower than the population as a whole, which register 85 and 70 percent on those rankings, respectively. But Barna, himself a Bible-believing, born-again Christian, points out that the numbers demonstrate that “popular stereotypes about the spiritual life of gays and lesbians are simply wrong.”
“People who portray gay adults as godless, hedonistic, Christian bashers are not working with the facts,” Barna said. “A substantial majority of gays cite their faith as a central facet of their life, consider themselves to be Christian, and claim to have some type of meaningful personal commitment to Jesus Christ active in their life today.”
Moreover, while Barna’s data indicate that homosexual believers tend to avoid active participation in an institutional church, both anecdotal evidence and some research shows that gays and lesbians who are involved in their churches and denominations are often more committed to the church and more involved in ministry than their straight brethren.
To Scott Thumma, a sociologist of religion at the Hartford Institute for Religion Research and co-editor of the volume, “Gay Religion,” Barna’s results are no surprise. Thumma has been studying gays in churches since the 1980s and he has found gay congregants in every denomination—including evangelical and Mormon congregations and other conservative churches.
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Peter Hamm on Mon, August 10, 2009
We do not address issues that would intentionally “chase them away” from the pulpit, but we don’t hide the fact that we believe in the authority and inspiration of scripture either.
Fact is, some are part of our congregation, for sure. Some are not actively living out a gay lifestyle, so I have little issue with that. Those who might be active, I don’t know them, so I can’t say much.
They feel welcome, but still hear God’s word… go figure…
I am totally unsurprised by this. Many people who are actively involved in activities that the Bible clearly condemns… like greed (think many American businessmen), gossip (think, well… most of us), and other things like that are not chased away.
CS on Mon, August 10, 2009
Peter:
“I am totally unsurprised by this. Many people who are actively involved in activities that the Bible clearly condemns… like greed (think many American businessmen), gossip (think, well… most of us), and other things like that are not chased away. “
You’re right; there are tons of people who sit in the pews actively engaged in lifestyles of sin. This is why I strongly advocate preaching the Law to convict people of their sins, which is something that we do not often get in our churches today.
But the Bible says that there is a difference between sins like greed and gossip and sexual sins, because they are against our own bodies (1 Corinthians 6). This class of sins is radically different and should be treated with greater prejudice in addressing, and with more sensitivity.
When I deal with someone who is homosexual, I usually focus on the Ten Commandments alone, because (1) mentioning their sexual preference will almost immediately end the conversation or cause hostility, and (2) addressing the, “lust,” component of adultery will do the job to homosexual and heterosexual alike. It still addresses the importance of confronting sexual sin, without provoking more direct anger.
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CS
Peter Hamm on Mon, August 10, 2009
CS,
Sorry, but I just don’t think that preaching a gospel of “Law” is any answer.
Also, you are so right about the different “levels” of sin. I’d argue that greed is at the top of that list, as it is linked to idolatry. But let’s face it, most American Christians think that it’s not that serious, and many don’t think it’s even wrong…
Pat on Mon, August 10, 2009
Thus far, we’ve only had a few attenders. I know that the pastor has met with a couple of them. We certainly don’t “out” them. Some people are aware of who they are, some aren’t. I say love them as the human beings that they are which includes letting them know the church’s stance. If they’re still willing to be a part of your congregation, so be it. We cannot hope to win people to Christ and be a force for change in their lives if we shoo them away. We tolerate everything else (gossip, fornication, etc.), why should gays be pushed out? I wouldn’t agree with putting them in leadership, but if they wish to attend and continue hearing the gospel, let them.
Pat on Mon, August 10, 2009
I would say there are different “types” of sin versus “levels”. Levels seems to connote that one is greater than the other and there is no sin greater than another, other than perhaps blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Greed should probably be at the top of the list since it’s the root of all sin. It’s all about us and gratifying our own desires be they sexual or otherwise.
CS on Mon, August 10, 2009
Peter:
“Sorry, but I just don’t think that preaching a gospel of “Law” is any answer. “
I saw your comment on another post here that also had this thought. What would you propose preaching? A message of Grace?
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CS
DJR on Mon, August 10, 2009
Is George Barna still considered an ‘evangelical’?
Peter Hamm on Mon, August 10, 2009
At the risk of being mis-interpreted by you (which sometimes, I think happens), CS…
Yes… THE Gospel of Grace. The Law can’t save anybody.
CS on Mon, August 10, 2009
Peter:
“Yes… THE Gospel of Grace. The Law can’t save anybody. “
You’re right. But the purpose of the Law is to bring us to the point where we realize just how fallen we are, so that Grace can be applied and makes sense. And when people thrive in sin, they need to understand their sinful nature—that’s what it’s there for. And the Law is a perfect tool for conversion.
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CS
Peter Hamm on Mon, August 10, 2009
CS,
I’d love to continue this argument, but I think I totally agree with your last statement…
In many instances people are preaching a gospel of all law and pretty much never get to grace, though. That’s what gets my goat…
Leonard on Mon, August 10, 2009
CS, I might tweak your statement a bit. “But the purpose of the Law is to bring us to the point where we realize just how fallen we are, so that Grace can be applied and makes sense. “
Instead of THE I would say A. The law was given to people who were already God’s. He did not give t to them as a primary way of showing their wickedness but rather as a way of loving them. The law is a school master, true. But it was given to a people who had no laws. They were slaves and had only an oral understanding of God. The law helped establish civil, moral, social and spiritual rules.
To narrow the purpose and focus of the law to a tool to show that people suck is IMO not in keeping with the intent of God. I do not believe he was on the mountain waiting for Moses to show up so he could put together a list to show how bad people are.
The bible does mention a Gospel of Grace but not a gospel of law. Forgive my abruptness, but bullying people into admitting they stink by using the law (this is the impression I got from WOTM videos) is not IMO in keeping with God’s intent for writing the Ten Commandments.
CS on Tue, August 11, 2009
Leonard:
“To narrow the purpose and focus of the law to a tool to show that people suck is IMO not in keeping with the intent of God. I do not believe he was on the mountain waiting for Moses to show up so he could put together a list to show how bad people are. “
You’re right in that the Law does not have a singular purpose of showing how bad we are, but it sure seemed to be the way through which God showed people how much they needed Grace. After all, Paul wrote:
“What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. (Romans 7:7, emphasis mine)”
As did David:
”The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. (Psalm 19:7, emphasis mine)”
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CS
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