Outreach at Gay Pride Day
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Wed, June 08, 2005
- Viewed 202
- (100) comments so far
Christians Say Hello. Gay Activists say Hmmm.
The Times piece says... "Pastor Lucas hoped that Liquid, which is part of a conservative Baptist church that considers homosexuality a sin, could take a third position, avoiding both the scolds of some evangelical Christians and the acceptance of more liberal churches. Without endorsing homosexuality, he said: "We want to dismantle the invisible hierarchy of sin that many evangelicals promote that puts gays and lesbians at the top of the list. That sense of self-righteousness and superiority runs rampant in our church like a cancer."
It continues... "For the members of Liquid, an alternative ministry within Millington Baptist Church, the event was a mission into new territory. At a final strategy meeting last week, a handwritten sign in the back of the room listed reasons for the outreach, and the first was "to challenge stereotypes of 'Christians.' "
Mr. Lucas wore spiked hair and an Amsterdam Motorcycles T-shirt. He advised the church members not to get into arguments or try to convert anybody. "We're not going there to hand out tracts," he said. "These people have been marginalized and hurt, often by us.
"If they say, 'What are you doing here?' keep it simple. Just say, 'We're here to show you God's love.' "
Alternatively, Mr. Lucas said, they might draw criticism from other conservative Christians, including members of their parent church, which was not invited to participate. "People might say, 'So you think I have to change so God will love me?' " he said. "Or they'll say, 'So you're a gay church, huh. Baptists are coming around to gay marriage?' You just say to them, 'No, I'm just here to serve.' "
If all went well, he said, "we'll earn the wrath and condemnation of religious folks, and find more people on the fringe, much like it was for Jesus."
Seems like a balanced approach to me, and a good start. I think Jesus would treat homosexuals with respect, just as members of "Liquid" did. Jesus loves each of them as much as he loves you or me. You've often heard it said that you need to love the sinner and hate the sin... I think this is a great way to start the dialouge. Who knows if any progress was made; but nothing was hurt.
FOR DISCUSSION: Has your church done any outreach to groups like homosexuals? How was it received? How did it effect your church?
Just in my last post today, I said I don’t get political too much here, but this struck me as a positive development...We’ve all seen the "God Hates Fags" signs that so-called Christians take to protest the homosexual lifestyle. Pastor Tim Lucas takes a different approach that was noticed this week in the NY Times. On a hot seaside afternoon, about 150 people from his small church wore light blue T-shirts bearing the name of their ministry, Liquid, and gave out free bottles of water. The title of the article…
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pjlr on Wed, June 08, 2005
I am for most outreach events designed to reach out to the fringes of culture and society. I’d probably join them handing out water and such, but the salt has got to come out of the saltshaker more porously.
Individuals need to be more intentional in befriending homosexuals at the job, and in their communities. Too often these “raids” outside of the camp give us a sense that we are truly reaching out, but I hope it is only a part of a greater campaign to minister to the fringes of society and culture.
If this is coupled with volunteering at an AIDS hospice, creating a support group for gays and family members of gays, participating in a prayer group designed to specifically pray for gay friends of the congregation etc., it can be more effective.
This is an encouraging start, let’s do more.
Todd Rhoades on Wed, June 08, 2005
Yep… totally agreed, pjlr… this is only a start; but a better one than many have made in the past.
Todd
Rick on Wed, June 08, 2005
Maybe “the salt” is supposed to make them thirsty…
Can’t think of a better way to make someone thirsty, for what you have, than accepting them as they are….
whether their struggle is homosexuality, obesity, materialism, pride, etc.
Blair Frodelius on Wed, June 08, 2005
I’ve recently started a pub ministry in my city and a few weeks ago we nearly had a blowout when a first time visitor (who happened to be a gay unitarian) came head to head with a Baptist Fundamentalist. Guess who’s still coming to our weekly meetings? http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
James on Wed, June 08, 2005
Super, love what you did. Hope we can have the love and courage to do the same. I like the salt shaker comment. Very positive and says it well. Let’s shake our love out to fringe people everywhere. God bless us as His Spirit moves us into new and challenging territory.
SPCT on Thu, June 09, 2005
Yes, I’m all for demonstrating the love of Christ. And it’s a small start. But the salt MUST come out and mix in deep with the decay in order to have any hope of arresting it.
So far this year, the sum total of our “outreach” at my church has been one instance of what is popularly known as “servant evangelism.”
We handed out water bottles to the folks at a town parade.
I’ve asked to show that same love of Christ to the family of a child in town who don’t know Christ—the 13 year old is dying of leukemia and the parents are destitute.
Guess what? A free-will offering request to the church has to go before committee.
For the love of God…
bernie dehler on Thu, June 09, 2005
The hard part is trying to simultaneously reach homosexuals, and yet oppose their social agenda (same-sex marriage, for example). Maybe we should all be Democrats to better mix with them, and hopefully change their policies for the better (on issues such as same-sex marriage, for example).
...Bernie
http://www.freegoodnews.com/logos/
d.darms on Mon, June 13, 2005
good start,but the gospel still has to be proclaimed! and it must be remembered that no matter how “nice” we say it,it will still anger most.why? because they loved darkness rather than light
Rick on Mon, June 13, 2005
I think this subject is more important than the “number” of readers who’ve commented. We seem to pass by this subject. What if we didn’t?
A question for those of you in church management; “How are you leading those in your local community toward loving/accepting those involved in unrepentent sinning?
I don’t want to argue about whether we should or should not be accepting/loving them…rather if you ARE accepting/loving them…how are you leading others to do the same?
Rick on Mon, June 13, 2005
Loving and accepting people unconditionally is the gospel.
It is impossible for the lost to do…and that’s got to make them “thirsty” for that which can do it.
Greg on Mon, June 13, 2005
The church I pastor is mostly gay folk. Churches cannot be gay, people are. We do not seek conversion of sexual identity but of the soul. Religion is slowly beginning to understand that NATURE and NURTURE are not the same.
Gay people are not nurtured to be gay, they are by nature predisposed to being attracted to the same sex.
The problem fundamentalist Christianity has with this is that it challenges a literalist view of Scripture. If it wasn’t for that I think homosexuality would be more culturally and socially acceptable.
When the Bible is interpreted within the framework of context, history, and langauge-one can see clearly the difference between sexual nature and sexual acts. Heterosexual sin (action, deeds) does not make heterosexuality an evil. So, vica versa. Gays are not evil, but any unresponsible and rebellious use of God’s gifts (sex is one of many) is wrong and considered sin.
I trust many will see this and stop gay-bashing in Jesus’ name…
BeHim on Mon, June 13, 2005
I strongly disagree, Biblically Greg but I’m not sure if I’ll be allowed to do so on this Blog. So for now, I only want to say Greg, you are Biblically wrong in your Biblical world view and in your parallelism.
BeHim on Mon, June 13, 2005
After considering Greg’s post I would please ask for some leniency to respond to the accusation: If a person speaks out against homosexuality they are “gay-bashing” in the name of Jesus.
I’m all for sharing The Gospel with the homosexual community but I don’t believe it is Biblical when a person accepts Christ they continue to live in sin. That is to say, live in un-repentence.
This begs the question: “Is being gay wrong? ie. sinful?”
I believe Greg’s world view would say no, being gay is not sinful
While I believe the Biblical (Christian)World View would say yes, it is sinful.
So how do we reconcile this? Do we reconcile this?
Isn’t repentence seeing the wrong of what I’ve done? If I don’t think it is wrong, then how or why would I repent of it?
Al on Tue, June 14, 2005
I cried when I read the story of Tim Lucas and members of his congregation visiting and sharing in the pride celebrations of their area.
If only more LGBT people could experience non-judgmental kindness like this.
The only point I’d like to make is that I am a born again Christian who is gay and living with my partner for 8 years. In my in-depth and ongoing study of scripture on this issue I believe the Bible is more ambiguous about this subject than I ever would have thought before I began this search. Please don’t judge me either! Please don’t jump to conclusions about how wrong you may think I am. Please accept me as a brother…and one who may NOT be right in some of his thoughts. I find in discussion with almost every single Christian I meet they are so sure they are right, so ready to condemn me that we can’t even have a discussion about this issue. I am the first one to say my views are NOT cast in concrete, but I have done more study than you can believe exegetically, contextually, historically and few if any Christians ever give me the time of day to at least hear me how and understand more of what my thoughts are. I am NOT trying to change their minds, just inform. I am NOT trying to convince anyone of anything, but so many Christians have given me articles, books, scriptural views, etc. etc. which I have always graciously accepted and READ, but almost NO ONE will take time to hear me out. Almost NONE of my (previous) Christian friends ever talk to me about what God is doing in their lives and ask about mine. We CAN agree to disagree, CAN’T we? Can’t we just be friends and brothers? Can’t we worship and share together even though you may think my life has sin in it? Don’t you have sin in your life…somewhere? somehow?
Can’t we have fellowship even if we don’t agree?
So many Christians have gone through affairs and divorce and have remarried. We may think that their choices contravene script
Todd Rhoades on Tue, June 14, 2005
Interesting comments overnight guys. I’ll have a couple (hopefully short posts) this morning to help us move forward on this topic. This is a great example as to how the new rules will truly make a difference here; and will define how we will handle controversial topics like this.
This first post will deal with disagreement. (I guess the second post will too). http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
First off, there is no problem with disagreeing with someone on this blog. (But honestly, I don’t want to hear any more “...but I’m not sure if I’ll be allowed to do so on this Blog” type comments. The rules are pretty clear. No more jabs from the past are necessary. And no asking for leniency is needed as well. (None really will be given as the rules are pretty broad).
OK, that being said… how do we tackle things when we DO disagree? We should do so respectfully. Try to avoid the ‘your mother’s ugly’ type statements. There is a way to respectfully and carefully word your disagreement so that they are not fighting words. The end result, I would hope, is that we could all learn from each other even if we disagree.
Here’s the thing (and please listen)… I doubt that anyone will change anyone’s mind on any topic here on the blog. I really doubt it. But, I DO believe that we can learn something from each other, if nothing more than how and why a person thinks the way they do. And that (at least to me is beneficial). The attitude here is that we can all learn from each others position, even if it’s no more than understanding how a person got to their way of thought (while we still disagree).
I’ve always been amazed at how two seemingly smart individuals can think entirely differently… how some people can be Republican and some people can be Democrat. And I love the opportunity to try to find out about they ‘whys’.
For example, I would hope BeHim, that while you disagree with Greg and Al that you’ll be able to learn something from each of them (even if it’s only why they think what they think); and I’m hoping that Greg and Al will be able to learn from you.
Hope this makes sense. A good place for this more theological position would be over at the “Progressive Churches Band Together” post as we’ve already discussed some of this issue there.
http://www.mmiblog.com/monday_morning_insight_we/2005/06/progressive_chu.html
Above all, let’s keep it respectful. Notice I didn’t say ‘politically correct’, I said ‘respectful’.
Todd
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