Pastor: Jesus was HIV positive
- Posted on November 08, 2010
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A South African Pastor is preaching a sermon series claiming that Jesus was HIV positive. HIV is mostly transmitted through sex, and that has many Christians outraged (suggesting that Jesus was sexually promiscuous). But wait, can't HIV be spread through other means?
Well, according to this BBC story, let's investigate that. Aids can also be spread through:
1. Breastfeeding. But Mary couldn't have given HIV to Jesus. She was a virgin.
2. Pregnancy. Again... not a possibility.
3. Contaminated blood. Not sure that transfusions were used in Jesus' day.
4. Needle-sharing. I'm pretty sure that Jesus used his own needles.
So... how did Jesus become HIV positive in this pastor's mind?
Well, it's kind of complicated. From the BBC story:
Jesus put himself in the position of the destitute, the sick and the marginalised.
"Wherever you open the scriptures Jesus puts himself in the shoes of people who experience brokenness. Isaiah 53, for example, clearly paints a picture of Jesus who takes upon himself the infirmities and the brokenness of humanity," this pastor told the BBC.
He is also quick to emphasise that he is using the metaphor to highlight the danger of the HIV/Aids pandemic, which still carries a stigma in South Africa's townships.
"Of course, there's no scientific evidence that Jesus had the HI virus in his bloodstream," says the pastor, whose non-denominational Hope for Life Ministry is part of a growing charismatic movement in South Africa.
"The best gift we can give to people who are HIV-positive is to help de-stigmatise Aids and create an environment where they know God is not against them, he's not ashamed of them."
De-stigmatising culture and sin is a dangerous thing. Don't think this is too outlandish. This is happening here in the states as well; particularly in the area of homosexuality.
Making Jesus the poster child for your cause will never work.
Here's an idea. Why don't we stick to what Jesus actually said rather than try to conform him to our personality, bad habits and sin?
What do you think?
Todd
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Brandon on Mon, November 08, 2010
>De-stigmatising culture and sin is a dangerous thing. Don’t think this is too outlandish. This is happening here in the states as well; particularly in the area of homosexuality.
From this sentence it sounds like you are likening HIV infection to “sin”. The sin isn’t the infection though—it might be an act that happened previously (or perhaps not at all). I think your conclusion, when coming from this angle is significantly off target. Or I suppose all those with TB, heart condition, diabetes, etc are actively in sin too?
Todd Rhoades on Mon, November 08, 2010
I don’t think HIV infection is a sin. Many times it is the result of sin. Sometimes it is not. Didn’t mean to get those two confused.
What I do think is dangerous is to make Jesus have some type of disease so that the people that suffer from that disease feel accepted and better about themselves. That appears to be at least part of the motivation of this pastor.
Todd
Leonard on Mon, November 08, 2010
That will never work… sticking to what Jesus actually said… come on, lets get with it.
Kind of scary.
Peter Hamm on Mon, November 08, 2010
This was a gimmick-ey way to try and make a point that is probably a really good point.
That said… yeah… sticking to what Jesus and the Bible says… too old fashioned…
Kevin on Mon, November 08, 2010
I get what you’re saying Todd but the only people it’s gonna’ offend is the religious folk (certainly not gonna’ hurt Jesus’s feelings any) and if it accomplishes what the pastor intends it to “to help de-stigmatise Aids and create an environment where they know God is not against them” then fine.
Todd Rhoades on Mon, November 08, 2010
Kevin,
There has to be a better way to help HIV victims know that God is not against them than to say they he has the same disease that they have.
Jesus was fully-man and fully-God. But that doesn’t mean that he rode a bike or used a needle or had HIV.
Jesus never had carpal tunnel because he used his keyboard too much.
And if I said that he did, that just wouldn’t be the truth.
Even if it did help the people with carpel tunnel feel better about their hurting wrist.
Todd
bishopdave on Mon, November 08, 2010
Jesus reached out and touched lepers. Weren’t they pretty marginalized? wasn’t that enough?
Kevin on Mon, November 08, 2010
Todd,
I can see that. It’s the truth factor that bothers you more than the blasphemy factor. Makes sense.
I went back and read the original article and I think theologically you could make this case (according to the Isaiah 53 passage the pastor cites…especially verses 4 and 5b). “He has borne our griefs, and by his stripes….” In essence I guess I would agree with what he’s said and would have to hear the sermon and the statements in the context to see if has really trying to mislead people.
Josh R on Mon, November 08, 2010
I am assuming he is pivoting off of 2 cor 5:21, and that is a fair argument. “For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. “
Jesus didn’t have to physically commit a sin to “have it” Otherwise he would be a sinner. He was “made sin” Our sins where supernaturally lifted off of us, and placed on him.
Our sin, it’s effects, where all piled upon Jesus as he took them to the cross. He was tempted as we are tempted. He suffered in every way as we suffer. This is God’s love. Jesus took our shame. I don’t think it is healthy to isolate Christ from that duty that he took on, in the interest of preserving his Holyness. Jesus descended from his Holyness to serve us by taking on a burden that we couldn’t bear on our own. Phil 2:6-10
I also think our disdain for AIDS from the Western Culture is ignorant of the real situation in Africa.. Here it is something that a few people get, mostly by engaging in risky behavior… Over there it is something that every single person is effected by either directly or indirectly. Our AIDS rate is <1/2 percent, while theirs is at 8% overall. (Much higher in some areas than others)
It is also worth noting that the medical facilities and practices over there are not nearly to the standards that we enjoy here. So what would be absolute Malpractice here is often the best that they can get over there.
Ted Carnahan on Tue, November 09, 2010
This is likely a rhetorical device, and one that is entirely in keeping with Jesus’ teaching. The pastor himself says that it is a metaphor, and he’s not saying that Jesus actually had HIV particles in his bloodstream.
Mt 25.31ff says that Jesus demands of us that we treat the poor, marginalized, victimized, and outcast as we would treat him. To the list of “hungry… give some food, thirsty… give a drink,” this pastor would add “HIV infected… welcome, support, and take care of.” Consider for a moment the toll that HIV takes on orphans in Africa, the impact it has on victimized spouses who never made a sinful choice and yet find themselves infected through the choice of someone else, and the lack of access to education and medical care the further spreads the virus.
This pastor is right on. He’s probably trying to cool his community’s self-righteous indignation long enough that they can actually act as the people of Christ in their area and help the suffering.
Is that destigmatization of sin? No, because being HIV infected isn’t a sin. Jesus did the same thing. Being hungry, thirsty, naked, or in prison aren’t sins either, but a lot of people thought that they were signs of God’s disfavor and therefore represented judgment on sinful behavior. Jesus told identified himself with them and told us to take care of them anyway.
rbud on Wed, November 10, 2010
A lot of dittos here. But I’m real sensitive about reading into the Scriptures what’s not there. Good message, perhaps, but the implications in the fantasy are a poor way to make the point. It might also give license to sin to those who are spiritually immature or religiously impressionable.
Richard Daley on Sat, November 13, 2010
* emphasis mine obviously
It doesn’t seem to me that the pastor is saying that the historical Jesus had HIV. Rather, it seems like he’s saying that Jesus identifies himself with the “least of these” (a la Matthew 25) and inasmuch as those who are HIV positive in society are “the least of these” that Jesus identifies himself with them.
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