Should a pastor with an addiction be fired?
- Posted on November 02, 2010
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This is the question that more and more churches are having to deal with these days. How do you deal with a pastor who has an addiction. Maybe it's an addiction to alcohol or drugs; maybe it's a sexual addiction like pornography. The question is... what should be done with a pastor that has an addiction of some kind when it is found out?
This scenario has actually happened this past week at Twin City Fellowship. Recently Bob Dewaay's health was deteriorating and they weren't sure what was wrong. After a bunch of tests, it was determined that Bob had Alcoholic Hepatitis. Bob had been a vocal part of the discernment movement (calling out those who he though here heretical) for the past years. As it turns out, the diagnosis was news to everyone in his church, including his elders. The reaction was quick. Termination.
You can hear how the church responded publicly here. (It's in the first ten minutes).
How should a church respond when their leader is caught in an addiction?
My thought is that the church acted properly in removing the man from leadership (although I think some of the words were rather harsh). The shepherd of a congregation is held to a high standard, and I think this was the right decision.
But what responsibility does the church have in the area of reconciliation? in the area of counseling and help? and in the area of financial support of this man and his family?
I think part of the answer to that question has to do with how the person caught reacts? Are they repentant? Are they making excuses? Are they defiant?
And if they are repentant, do you work out a restoration plan with them as a church? Are they restored to their senior pastor role?
And if you, for some reason, decide NOT to terminate, how do you proceed? Publicly? Privately? Seems dangerous to the life of the church either way.
As you can tell... I have few, if any answers.
Dare I say what happens most often? When this type of addiction is found in a staff person (especially a person in a senior role); many times the person if quietly fired (without giving a reason) and is simply moved on to another church. This is what should NEVER happen.
What are your thoughts? If your pastor (or you) were diagnosed with Alcoholic Hepatitis (and no one even knew you drank); should you be terminated, rehabilitated, or what?
Todd
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Phillip Maine on Mon, November 08, 2010
This is info you really need to see if you are living below the 450 ft sea level, on non bedrock ground or near volcano’s. The Navy intelligence service says it will hit you fast. view all 12 video segments. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpbiuKTtMZo&feature=player_embedded
I have known about John Moore sense I worked for Wackenhut Securities in the Mid 1980s. He is a born a new Christian who has inside government sources. As a people we can either jeer as the people did then, or we can do what Noah did and prepare. It is our choice. With what the USNIS, US Navy intelligence Service, says is coming at us, we are looking at the end of the Age of Grace. The US Navy intelligence service says that total destruction will occur on land that is sea level to 100 ft above sea level, and major damage up to 400 ft, plus major world wide earth quakes and possible volcanic eruptions. PS the government spin is Al Gore’s Global warming and is meant to fool the people. The big question we may want to ask is, “are we going to sit and do nothing or are we going to prepare, and/or (quote) Get Out OF Dodge?”
Truthfully, I believe this man, and What he says is exactly biblical. We are talking of an event of such biblical proportion that if Jesus does not intervene no one may be left.
Where I am at in Oregon we are making arrangements to have our own source of food water and power. We have some time but not a lot. I am sure that the oceans will be flowing on any land below 400 ft because when this double planet sized asteroid makes its loop through the solar system it will disrupt the equilibrium that keeps a large part of the oceans on the equator. The Navy is recommending the Arkansas Missouri Ozarks for retirement.
Those in power are going to force everyone to stay in place until it is too late then let them die. This disruption will wipe out about 2/3 of the population of the planet, their figures which corresponds exactly to the Biblical figures. We are talking about flooding in all the worlds coastal areas, major flooding of rivers from the rain, major earth quakes across the globe, 200 mph+ straight winds, major volcanic action (hopefully not Yellowstone) the collapse of all the infrastructure and war over the left over resources. They are giving man’s prospective, but if you read Revelation from chapter 4 to chapter 20 you will see Jesus’ prospective of what is going to happen. I believe this is the end of the age of Grace but if it is not I must be prepared to survive it, and especially my children. If you are fortunate enough to have the money to build a house put it on land above 800 feet under ground with the Base poured on rock. You want it adhered to the Rock. Do not let them put sand between the concrete and the rock as the Base needs to be solid or it will look like the land fill area in LA during the 1994 Northridge quake. If you are not that fortunate find an old bus or tractor-trailer trailer and bury it. go to http://www.republicbroadcasting.org/shoutcast/shoutcast.html and listen to him. He has a source for dried food- at least 2 years worth. get enough seed to plant about two acres of garden and store it in an air tight container with one of those moister absorbent packs you can get. Do not get the hybrids but buy the old ones.
If I had the cash I would be doing all of this!
I am one of the displaced persons because of the economy. But I am working toward getting this Childrens community where it should be. We have horses, chickens, and rabbits. We will have pigs next spring. We are working on getting the whole place irrigated. I am working on them to get three trailers to bury and get 2 years worth of food.
I am working on a source for self sustained power generation and hope to have a saw mill secured and stored to rebuild when it hits. The Navy estimates that 75% of all structures above the new sea level will be destroyed or have major structural damage. We are talking about no roads (bridges gone) no gas, no electricity, no indoor plumbing, no grocery supplies etc… Another words things will be as they were in the 1800s.
I know of 30 underground facilities built to house people and store plants. I know of three major places where seed is being stored underground. I know of a lot of the preparations that our government is making for itself. I also know that they are not making any preparation at all for the masses. They intend to keep them where they are until it hits then let them die. This is to keep the economy going and keep people fooled into believing nothing is wrong. The elite are even going to let most of our soldier die so they can survive, after all they believe they are superior to you and I.
I have a pps so you may see what I am talking about. The first is a picture of our planet compared to what is coming. The second is our solar system and the third is where it is coming from. It has a north south axes, and is entering from the south. It will swing around the sun about the in as far a distance from the sun as the distance of Jupiter from the sun. I know of its existence because of the effect it is having on our sun’s stability. It is causing sun to wobble. I know of it because of both biblical and non-biblical texts. I know of it because the government is hiding it. The Telescope images are fuzzed out where it is. I know of it because it sets up exactly the biblical scenario of the end times. It is the Wormwood of Revelation. Chapters 4-20 of Revelation are God’s view of the end. It corresponds exactly with what the Navy says is coming without any collusion. Just to let you know, the government used the Y2K scare in such a way that the people will say “this is another Y2K so don’t believe it. “Plausible denyability” to fool the people. I was not fooled by them then and am not now. When the Gov lets it out, you can be sure it is not true, and when the Government hides something you can be sure it is true. John Moore and I have talked and he agrees that the eruption of MOUNT MERAPI, Indonesia and the 22 showing increased activity in Indonesia are signs that are expected as this planet approaches. Has your pastor taught Revelation with this information added?
We have heard all our lives that the end is near. It is now upon us.
I also have another Power Point that will show the truth of the biblical location of the garden east in Eden, Noah’s boat, who Joseph was and what he built, who moses was, including his statue, what, when, and where of the red sea crossing, (including pictures of the chariot and human remains) and pictures of the mountain of God.
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Steve Long on Mon, November 08, 2010
Tony,
I am not suggesting that my ears are closed. I am suggesting that the person who tries to find a New Covenant example of Pastor restoration (from falling into sin) will not find it. It’s not because I would not be interested in hearing about it if it was there. It is because there is no example of Pastor restoration in the New Testament. I considered the task a fool’s errand, and I know with a ‘challenge’ like that that many would plow in to the scripture to see if my assertion is true. That is a good thing. Alot of the comment in response here has been skewed toward man’s wisdom and the ruler to apply to life is God’s wisdom. The infinite God of Creation has revealed His thoughts and they are marvelous. They have been faithfully passed on to us. Why should His contribution be given equal weight with our ideas and benevolent suggestions. It is an exceptionally good thing if Bible searching occurs because of this dilemma.
I will toss this one crumb though. John Mark did not complete the mission with the Apostle Paul and Barnabas. He wasn’t up to it at the time and if you recall Paul didn’t think he was ever going to be suited for mission work to the point that when Barnabas suggested him for a ride-along on another mission Paul and he separated on not good terms. Paul went off with Sylvanus (Silas). Later on Paul changed his mind and opinion about John Mark and very possibly this same fellow authored the earliest Gospel of the New Testament. The issue here wasn’t sin though. It was immaturity and lack of vision. If you have come across something in the New Testament that I have missed I truly am eager to hear it because it would carry alot of water in this discussion. I was merely suggesting that any effort to connect B. DeW.‘s situation to something in early church (Bible) experience will bring frustration. I beleive this to be true.
Tony Moore on Tue, November 09, 2010
Ok Steve, thank you for responding. I misunderstood your previous post, but completely agree with this one with one minor exception. That being your statement that “Alot of the comment in response here has been skewed toward man�s wisdom.” Since, as you say, the Bible gives no example of a pastor falling into sin and being (or not being) restored, then ALL of the opinions given in these posts - including mine - have been skewed toward man’s wisdom.
My preference and practice is to be black and white when the Bible is black and white, to always offer grace when the Bible indicates gray areas, and to be silent when the Bible is silent.
I do not like arguments, and I don’t usually participate in online discussions, but I do feel strongly about people who misuse God’s Word. I intend for this to be my last post on this train - but I appreciate the interaction. For the sake of disclosure, let me offer the following:
1) If I were in the position to decide the fate of a fellow minister I don’t know what I would do. While some dogmatic statements have been made by commenters on this blog, I disagree and think each situation should be weighed individually.
2) Some of my posts here have been for the sake of argument - to make readers think about their positions. If that takes people to the Word, then I’ve done my job.
3) I personally am a pastor who has dealt with addiction AND sinful behaviors (they weren’t necessarily the same). For me, restoration to ministry was a joyful, maturing process. I am very thankful to God and to my Christian family for the grace and love I have received. I recognize my weaknesses and my unworthiness. But even more, I recognize God’s greatness, His sovereignty, and His ability to do what I cannot do in my own strength. May He receive all the glory.
Steve Long on Tue, November 09, 2010
Tony,
I know that you are aggravated with my comments so out the gate I will apologize for being ungracious. I am fully human and speak with bluntness that reveals my own insecurity and uncharitableness (love). ‘Speak the truth in love’ comes to mind here. My ability to confess these things is a work of the Spirit and not from my human nature. Confession puts this out in the open for God and man so that man will pray for me and God will work in me. All of my comments about the subject of this thread have application for me too. You may have detected this.
My comment about the ‘skewed’ content in this thread were made because I see danger in my own life of not calling sin, sin, and bringing mitigation, (addiction B.D./unlovingnessS.L.) forward as though I am a victim of my unlovingness. Sin is more shocking and accurate for my condition because it is not God’s intention that I be uncharitable when I make comment.
I would not speak with this bluntness in the local church community and would only be blunt with a select audience who were spiritually mature and would not be injured by it. This is a select audience of people with different perspectives than mine and I am rounded out in my thinking by the larger discussion. Do not think that your merciful comments have been fruitless. There is truth and there is love.
Truth can be found in God’s word and love can be found in God’s heart. They work together in tandem and truth without love is hollow, but love without truth is unguided. Together they provide guided (purposeful) living from the Eternal One.
You identify yourself as a minister and that we all are by calling whether occupationally or avocationally. Ministers are servants of God and of people. That is the highest calling.
Your comments ‘Speak when the Bible speaks’ and ‘be silent where the Bible is silent’ added to the words ‘but in all things unity’ are sound advice. I believe that restoration to spiritual living is a joyful thing and an amazing work of the Spirit but my impression from scripture is that there is a new normal as part of restoration. For fallen leaders that new normal looks quite a bit different than what came before.
Tod has started a new thread with the first two pages of this thread concentrating on a comment Cal Habig made that when a leader falls into sin ‘they do not lose their ability to lead but they lose their credibility to lead’. I think this comment distills the content of this discussion down to a useful nugget. I am reading that but not commenting.
Tony, don’t quit commenting on MMI. Also, don’t take my words, (or others) to much to heart. A lot more goes on here than ‘position taking’. A position is merely a starting point. You may be mistaken if you think my comments are my end point.
D. Christian on Wed, November 17, 2010
I appreciate that the majority of comments here have been so thoughtful. I have known Bob DeWaay for many years and can testify that no one was aware of his problem. Years ago, he began consuming nightcaps to help him battle his insomnia. Big stupid mistake. He admits it. It became a cronic practice. He has other medical conditions and pressures that made his cronic use of alcohol even worse. He is repenting of it as a sin and is currently undergoing treatment.
In all those years of comsumption, no one ever saw him under the influence. Yes, he became an addict without being a drunk! Please save any debate on that issue for a different post.
Bob has now lost his position and his job. The accuser of the brethren is well pleased.
I trust in the grace of Jesus Christ to effect a deep and true repentance and I appeal to God for his mercy for the church.
botox on Thu, December 02, 2010
I definitely feel firing him was the wrong move. Having a talk with him about his problem and convincing him to step down and get help would have been the right thing to do. You cannot have someone in his position with that condition. People come for guidance, belief, inspiration and it would be immoral for him to continue his job with that on his mind. But with those job duties his elders and peers should of gave him guidance, inspiration and belief that he too can win this battle and become strong again.
Ben Weiss on Thu, December 09, 2010
To me this is the simple answer, which may have been listed by someone else. We are held to higher standard.
17 The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. 18 For Scripture says, �Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,�[a] and �The worker deserves his wages.� 19 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. 20 But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning. 21 I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.
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