MondayMorningInsight

Should An Openly Homosexual Person Be Baptized?

Posted by: Todd
Posted on: Thu, May 08, 2008
Viewed 26
(37) comments so far

To start off his post, Brian tells this story…

I was posed the following question by two homosexuals jointly raising a child,
“Which sin is greater: continuing with the way we choose to live our lives or having one of us move out and ripping apart the only home our son has ever known?”

Here’s what I said…

“Honestly, I don’t know. I’m not God. But even if I did have a strong opinion on the matter, I wouldn’t give it to you. Do you want to know why? Because my hunch is you’re not really looking for an answer as much as you are looking for a reason to leave this church and turn your back on God. Others pastors may have given you reason to do so, but I’m not going to follow suit. You’re here for a reason, and that’s to find your way back to God. Once you do that, He’ll be the one that will help you answer that question.”

Then I hugged them both.

In my mind two more important questions lurked behind the question they asked:

1. Will this pastor guy treat our sin any differently than the other searching non-believers in the Bible study that went home to continue to embezzle money for their employer, look at porn on their computers or abuse prescription drugs?

2. Can I really trust God?

The second question is probably the most important. It’s hard to fathom how hard it is for a struggling homosexual to darken the doors of a church building, let alone contemplate turning their lives over to a deity who is going to ask for radical, painful change. That takes a great leap of faith; probably more than most heterosexual people were required to exercise before they became Christians.

The real issue for me comes down to this: How can we expect any non-believer to truly have a heart for the ways of God BEFORE conversion?

You can read the rest of Brian’s post here as it relates to baptism...

What do you think? Would you agree with Brian’s thoughts or would you tackle this thing totally differently? Let’s hear what you have to say…

I had the opportunity to meet Brian Jones a few weeks ago in Florida. Brian says, on his blog, that he's an 'average guy', but he's writing some great stuff over at BrianJones.com. Recently, he's been doing a series on homosexuality, and in one of his latest posts, he asks the question of whether or not an openly homosexual person should be baptised.

Comments

if you want a Globally Recognized Avatar (the images next to your profile) get them here. Once you sign up, they will displayed on any website that supports them.

leonard on Wed, May 14, 2008

thea I appreciate what you are saying but I think these are different subjects
GR Guy on Wed, May 14, 2008

A Sinner,

One reason why people make a bigger deal out of homosexuality is that

GREED is an attitude which in many cases is harder to make a judgement on. (just because someone has a lot of money or possessions doesn’t make him greedy. It’s how he uses those with regard to others).

HOMOSEXUALITY is more of an identifiable behavior.

Probably not fair but yes, both are sin.
James on Thu, May 15, 2008

I have sat here and debated for 10 minutes as to whether I should respond to this… but I simply can’t let it go.

Daniel, you are very quick to point out the ills and errors of this nation’s “war-making machine”; you call out for radical change in people in various vocations to come out of those areas as they go through their process of discipleship, no doubt indicating that they are maturing in Christ; and yet, you make a distinction between “practicing homosexual” and one of “homosexual orientation.”

I pray that I am completely wrong in my understanding of your intention, but certainly you don’t mean to say that one is able to be “born gay.” The question of whether or not “openly gay” people should be baptized aside (and I do love the way that the Brian handled it. That was both tactful and revolutionary.), with this statement - if I understand your intention correctly, and I hope, as I said, that I am woefully mistaken - you come within a hairs breadth of saying that homosexuality is a perfectly acceptable lifestle choice because, after all if “This is how God made me” and “I was born this way” are justifiers of a lifestyle, then certainly those same statements can be used to justify a person’s decision to not come out of what the Bible declares, definitively, as a sin.

If I misunderstand you, then ignore 98% of what I said here.

James
DanielR on Thu, May 15, 2008

James, this is a different Daniel than who you addressed your question to.

Daniel stated that “homosexual behavior is not the same as a homosexual orientation.” I think one question is what constitutes being homosexual?   Is it orientation (feelings or attraction to members of the same gender) or is it behavior? Which constitutes sin that, as you say, the Bible declares, definitively as sin?

If it is behavior that is the sin, then someone of homosexual orientation who chooses to be celibate would not really be any more of a sinner (in this area) than a heterosexual person who chooses to be celibate until they get married. And Daniel says baptize ‘em.

If, on the other hand, you believe that homosexual orientation (feelings of attraction to the same gender or however you define it) then the question gets a little stickier. Is homosexual orientation worse than a heterosexual with lustful orientation if neither acts upon what they feel?

You are correct; “This is how God made me” and “I was born this way” are justifiers of a lifestyle. I think the question of whether a person of a certain “orientation” was “made that way” or “born that way” is a rabbit hole best avoided.   We are ALL sinful, we live in a fallen world and we all sin.

The argument some people make that they are sinful by nature (because God made them that way) doesn’t excuse the sin.   Not for homosexuals, not for men who cheat on their wives and say men are genetically wired to try and procreate with as many women as possible, not for any sin. So I think the question comes back to what constitutes sin when it comes to the question of homosexuality.
helen on Fri, May 16, 2008

i can not see where god made anyone a homosexual, or a murderer, or anything that causes us to sin, we were made in the likeness of god, and i have never read in his word where he made us anything like that, i think it was when satan got in the garden and in the minds and spirit of adam and eve is when this sin got started, god is in the saving buisness not in the sinning buisness,so in my personal openion i think we should put the blame on satan not our god and savior jesus christ, it would not make sense to make my children sin then blame them for what i had made them do. but i know that god will save any sinner, that is why jesus came, he suffered and died for that purpose, a sinner is a sinner, there are greater sins than others, but come judgement day if a sinner did not get saved ,then there is one place they will be going, jesus took the sin on his own body, he did not take the sinner on his on body, he took the sin, all sin. so there is no use condeming the sinner they are already condemed , they need a savior, not a condemmer. god said he would judge the sinner, but god gave the pastors the authority to judge sin in the body of christ, a pastor looks out for our soul, he is held accountable by god , so a pastor has the right to make decisions on our behalf. an for him to allow a sinner to be baptized befour they are saved is not very accountable. that is any sinner , god has no respect of person and neither should a pastor. i know i cant say things as well as most of you but i can say what is in my heart.
San on Fri, May 16, 2008

It seems to me that the Gospel says that we are to come as we are—we are all open sinners. I don’t remember any caveats from Jesus about who could be baptized—and I study the Bible daily. I just don’t believe that the church has the right to decide who will belong, who won’t, who’ll be baptized, who won’t. The church belongs to Jesus Christ, and I strongly believe that Jesus would baptize anybody. How many of us go down in the water a devil and come out of the water a devil? That homosexuality is a sin is clear. So is lying, fornication/adultery, etc., etc. That the sin is “open” is irrelevant in my opinion. That some people know that I sin and what my sin is, then drug addicts shouldn’t be baptized either; prostitutes shouldn’t be baptized either. That’s not the church. We are all sinners! Judas was a thief, and Jesus knew it. No where does it say that Judas shouldn’t have been baptized. Yet, his sin is considered the most heinous sin of sins! How can we be supportive of the openly homosexual’s change of lifestyle if we don’t worship with him, and love him through it? How can we be witnesses for Christ by acting like witnesses for the devil?
helen on Sat, May 17, 2008

san baptism does not save us,i understand the bible to say repent and then be baptized,i thought repent ment to turn away from,yes we are to come as we are, we can come no other way, jesus said in mark 15, go into all the world and preach the good news to all, and whoever believes and is baptizeed shall be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemmed, and these signs will follow those who believe, we come as we are but we do not stay the way we were, we know sin can not enter heaven , so jesus clense us from all unrighousness, then we have to renew our minds to the mind of christ, and keep our body under subjection , god does not ask us to do this alone, he gave his holy spirit to us , we have got to believe god above every thing else, he said he put his word above his name, so his word is to be trusted above every other thing that is named, people are trying all kind of formulars to make their church work right and get people to god , but all they have to do is do what god already said to do, preach the good news, jesus is the good news, jesus said if we are not ashamed of him he would not be ashamed of us, god will and doed save homosexuals, but he hates the sin, any sin, because sin destroys,but the devils job is to make us want to keep sinning, but jesus died and rose again to say you do not have to sin any more , or live in sin any more, and if we do sin we have jesus , he will forgive us. there is no wondering if god loves us or not, we know he said he does, so that settles it. satan has got people in his grip, but jesus is the one to set them free from satans grip. the anointing destroys the yoke of bondage,
Paul McDonald on Mon, May 19, 2008

Hmmm…

People active in a gay lifestyle generally do not see a problem with what they do.

As for me and my sins, I know they are wrong and yet commit them anyway.

Which is worse, their actions or mine?

When I get my stuff worked out, I’ll worry about someone else.

As for baptism: If we had to live a sin-free life to be baptized, who among us would be baptized?
Bob Barnes on Mon, May 19, 2008

If a similar situation occurs for me, I hope that I will be as wise as that Pastor. I see homosexuality as sin. Yet I trust the Holy Spirit to do the cleanup in people’s life. We “catch them and He cleans them.” I would not deny them wter.
Mike Mizell on Tue, May 20, 2008

I would simply say that Jesus told the woman caught in the act of adultery that he didn’t condemn her but then he followed up by telling her, “go and sin no more.”

Likewise, when we choose to become a Christ-follower we must forsake our sin and stirve to live Christ-like lives whether our sin is homosexuality or fornication or whatever. Check the fruit because trees don’t lie.
jerry on Thu, May 22, 2008

openly means they have not repented, no repentance,no salvation that simple. you people that let people think they are saved with their fire escape prayer are helping to send people to hell. Stop twisting God’s word with with all your worldly philosophies. There is a way that seemeth right unto a man but the ends thereof are the ways of death
helen on Fri, May 23, 2008

jerry you are so very right, but i did not think i was twisting gods word, paul why do you keep sinning knowing it is a sin? and you will never work it out on your own, it takes the power of god to free us from sin, a lot of people think you can repete a prayer after someone and they are saved, if they do it better be from the heart and not just from the head. time is to short to be playing around with peoples lives. .