Monday Morning Insights

Photo of Todd
    .

    Should Your Church Hide It’s Denominational Affiliation?

    Bookmark and Share

    You can read the article here at Tim’s blog...

    But here are my questions:

    1.  If you’re an unsaved person who’s never been to church, do you look for a particular denomination?  A cool looking building?  A nice yellow-pages ad?  A church where you know somebody?  How do you pick the church you go to if and when you decide to go?

    2.  Isn’t the ‘dropping the denomination’s name’ from our churches name just another sign that denominations in America are decreasing in influence and importance?  Is that good or bad?


    Tim Stevens re-printed a great article over at his LeadingSmart.com blog about denominationalism and whether or not your church should brand itself as a part of a particular denomination. A great case in point is Granger Community Church (Tim's church) that is a United Methodist Church but does not, in any way, publically advertise itself as such.

    This decision (Granger's specifically, and all churches in general) has some people all in a tizzy. Other's think it's great.

    Let's face it. Over the past decade, many churches have shed their denomination's name from their church name for many different reasons. Some to distance themselves from a denomination that is changing; some to be hip or cool; and some to appeal to a wider audience...

    Comments

    if you want a Globally Recognized Avatar (the images next to your profile) get them here. Once you sign up, they will displayed on any website that supports them.

    1. Peter Hamm on Wed, December 17, 2008

      Yes, I believe denominations as we know them are on the decline. Is it a good thing? It is when we shed some of the baggage that we need to shed. It is not when we have churches with no oversight of any kind produce leaders who commit “spiritual abuse”.


      Partially because our services are specifically seeker-sensitive, we do intentionally avoid publicizing our denominational affiliation, but do not hide it. In fact, we quickly volunteer it to anyone who wants to know, and often even if they don’t. We’re not hiding anything, we’re just not using it as our “touchstone”.

    2. CS on Wed, December 17, 2008

      “If you’re an unsaved person who’s never been to church, do you look for a particular denomination?  A cool looking building?  A nice yellow-pages ad?  A church where you know somebody?  How do you pick the church you go to if and when you decide to go?”


      There’s a large portion of the problem right there.  Churches are more focused on how they appeal to the unsaved world than to believers.  So, amongst other things, they strip out their denominational markers so that they don’t look, “old,” or, “like my parents’ church.”


      I agree with the two main points that Peter made in his first paragraph, but I do not see that being the primary motivator in doing this.  Instead, I see it being done (forgive the harsh language) for the pleasing of the goats.



      CS



      CS

    3. JOB on Wed, December 17, 2008

      In many cases churches are downright deceptive when it comes to this issue. For example, my denomination the Assembly of God.  The A/G has always refered to itself as a movement not a denomination. But most agree it is a denomination.  Anyway, can someone please explain to me how an A/G church can put on it’s signage and literature, “inter-denominational” or “non-denominational”?  Knowing that all A/G pastors are required to, yearly, affirm their allegiance to the 16 fundamental truths and affirm that they have preached them how can this be?  If a church no longer can support the vision of it’s denomination, why not just leave and you can refer to yourself however you want?  I think it’s the honorable thing to do.  I also think that it’s no coincidence that this trend to steer away from denominations has also let to a decline in the preaching of doctrinal issues.  Not sure which came first.

    4. Peter Hamm on Wed, December 17, 2008

      CS,


      I’m very concerned about how we appear to the world, especially the unsaved world, but we do NOT hide our denominational affiliation to do it. And our denomination is very much unlike us as a church to all appearances… If the motivation is to hide the affiliation to attract seekers, I agree that that is problematic at best.


      JOB,


      Although I don’t necessarily TOTALLY agree with your last two sentences, you are on target with what you’re saying… Our denomination also self-identifies as a ‘movement’ (and I’ve been part of the AG before, a “troubled movement” with a GREAT future, imho). If you have to hide it, or say your inter-denominational (a preposterous notion when you think about it), just leave… Ohmygosh, JOB, I pretty much agreed with you. (Although I wouldn’t have pegged you as a pentecostal… go figure…

    5. CS on Wed, December 17, 2008

      I realized after reading my last post that I came off even a little more harsh than I should have been, and wanted to give this another shot in explaining things.


      Here goes…


      We should never, “hide,” things like denomination.  It’s silly at best, and dishonest at worst.  Especially when the motivation is primarily for the sake of drawing in the unsaved.  However, there are plenty of reasons for changing denominational status.


      Here are some for splitting with a denomination and whether or not they are legit:


      -The denomination goes heretical, like the Episcopalians and Anglicans.  RIGHT.


      -The church has an independent governing body that is large and wise enough to help guide the church.  RIGHT.


      -The unsaved don’t like your denomination.  WRONG.


      Conversely, here are some to join a denomination and whether or not they are legit:


      -The church needs an independent body to prevent crazy doctrine and theology.  RIGHT.


      -The church needs the resources that only a larger denomination can offer.  RIGHT.


      -The unsaved want you to be a part of a denomination.  WRONG.


      The mentality of doing things out of a primary reason for pleasing the unsaved is wrong.  The associative mentality for reaching them does not work and is illogical:


      -The unsaved like no denominational markers.


      -We like Jesus.


      -Therefore, if we remove our denomination, they will like Jesus.  WRONG.



      CS

    6. Peter Hamm on Wed, December 17, 2008

      CS,


      I kinda agree… BUT…


      I will become a methodist to reach methodists, a goth to reach goths, a non-denom to reach non-denoms… you get it…


      I dispute your assertion (I think) that making your church attractive to non-believers is wrong.


      I don’t dispute that the denomination you’re part of really doesn’t matter, so if you’re trying to make changes in this area to reach the lost, it’s the wrong area.


      You know, we might just agree here… just wanted to clarify that.

    7. JOB on Wed, December 17, 2008

      Peter,


      Why do you think churches are unwilling to leave their “movements” or denominations when it makes perfectly good sense to do so?

    8. Peter Hamm on Wed, December 17, 2008

      JOB,


      That kind of change is scary to a lot of people, and think how many people need to be involved in such a decision in many churches.


      But sometimes it happens, look at how whole churches and dioceses (spelling?) are leaving the Episcopal Church USA right now and affiliating with theologically conservative branches of Anglicanism in the Global South.


      But here’s the problem with that, using that example (and I’m aware of many churches in this quandry over this issue). If you are a formerly Episcopal Church that is now part of the Diocese of Nigeria (or some such place), you are identified to anybody outside your walls based on just one issue, homosexuality. It is unlikely that a homosexual non-believer is likely to find salvation, healing, restoration, et cetera in the walls of your church now.


      It’s problematic.

    9. Sam on Wed, December 17, 2008

      There are distinctives based on theological differences that have led to the creation of denominations.


      Peter, for one to “switch” denominations is not an easy task for the mature Christian who holds to theological convictions. A Baptist does not all of a sudden switch to be a Presby because of a difference in believers baptism vs infant baptism for example. But both churches are united by the Gospel. It is OK for us to disagree with secondary issues.


      It all sounds good on the surface that denominations be done away with but every church body holds to certain theological tenets. Like when it comes to baptism, again, who do you baptize? When you do baptize, do you break out the sprinkler or the tub?


      Peter, the Anglican church breaking away from the Episcopal church has to do with biblical fidelity first and foremost because of the ordination of homosexual priests. They could no longer be biblically faithful if they remained a part. God saves not man. God could draw a homosexual to an anglican church and ulimately salvation as much as God could draw the homosexual to your church. The Anglican church’s first responsibility is to be obedient to God’s word not to appeal to a hostile dying world that despises the gospel.

    10. Peter Hamm on Wed, December 17, 2008

      Sam,


      Good call! Fact is, there are theological distinctives I hold that would keep me out of several denominations, even though I may appreciate and celebrate them and their efforts for the gospel. I for one am glad that there are multiple flavors of Christianity.


      As far as the church’s first responsibility, as important as God’s word is, our first responsibility is the great commission, would you not agree? making disciples.

    11. Sam on Wed, December 17, 2008

      Peter, it is not an either/or proposition. We are called to be faithful to God’s word AS we pursue the great commission. Part of loving God/Loving people, is following God’s word. We are not to allow false teaching and blatant disregard to the Bible to propogate through the church. Making disciples does not have to be at the expense of neglecting God’s commands to us.


      The Episcopal church was in direct violation of God’s word when they ordained homosexual priests. That should not be ignored or tolerated just because of the great commission. And just because the Anglicans pulled away doesnt mean that they can not evangelize or be less effective because God saves not man. how can a church “teach everything that Jesus commands” as stated in the great commission if they tolerate false teaching and disobedience to the Bible?


      Peter, we are not to just follow the great commission and ignore all other commands in the Bible. A church can be biblically faithful and very evangelistic. I do not see where it has to be an either/or type of deal.


      Lastly, if you church ordained a gay minister and installed him as your pastor, what would you do?

    12. Peter Hamm on Wed, December 17, 2008

      No, Sam, it is not an either/or proposition. But you stated “The Anglican church’s first responsibility is to be obedient to God’s word not to appeal to a hostile dying world that despises the gospel.” I was challenging your assertion of obedience to God’s word as the primary responsibility of the church, without mentioning the great commission.


      Back to my example, my really big issue with the ordination of Gene Robinson (the gay bishop ordained) was not that he was gay, and it even wasn’t that he was actively practicing a gay lifestyle. We all have sin in our lives, but this statement by him would be my issue. This is a direct quote. Google it.


      “Just simply to say that it goes against tradition and the teaching of the church and Scripture does not necessarily make it wrong,” he said. “We worship a living God, and that living God leads us into truth.”


      The Episcopal Church knowingly ordained as a bishop a man who shows disdain for the authority and inspiration of Scripture. I am in agreement with you on the importance of obedience to Scripture, so are the articles of religion that the ECUSA is founded on. (We agree a lot here, don’t we…)


      BUT… our big primary responsibility is to make disciples. Is obedience to Scripture part of that? I would argue yes.


      Anyway, we’re getting off track a bit.


      Your final question is good. I don’t think I’d be part of a church that did this. I was out of the Episcopal Church before Robinson was elected, so it was never my issue…


      But if it happened here?… Yeah, I’m probably gone really fast, once I’ve been heard on the issue.

    13. Michael on Wed, December 17, 2008

      I think it’s important to remember that “non denominational” is perceived as a denomination in many ways these days.

    14. Stewart on Wed, December 17, 2008

      A couple of additional thoughts.


      (1) Sometimes hiding (or not putting the denominational affiliation upfront) has negative impact later on. I can speak specifically about Mosaic in LA. Love the church, but they are Southern Baptist. One of the things Southern Baptists are known for (fairly or not) is their stance against women serving as pastor. I’ve known two women who loved the church. Became Christians. And then felt very betrayed when they learned of the connection.


      (2) Sometimes the desire to distance from a denomination without formally leaving is all about the money and property. In denominations where the denomination owns the property - it is not just an emotional hardship to cut ties.

    15. Jan on Wed, December 17, 2008

      I don’t think your denomination has much to do with whether a person will attend your church.


      People come because you are relevant and impacting the world around you.  They see a group of people who are worshipping and learning about God and themselves together as they care about one another.  If you’ve got that, denomination doesn’t make much difference to most people.


      We don’t hide it (SBC) and have never had someone react to it, even though I thought they might.

    16. Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 >

      Post a Comment

    17. (will not be published)

      Remember my personal information

      Notify me of follow-up comments?

    Sponsors