Strippers Turn Tables on Church

Posted on August 10, 2010
Viewed 4470 times
(100) comments

North of Columbus, OH, there is a battle brewing. It pits a church against a strip club. For the last four years, Pastor Bill Dunfee and several from New Beginnings Ministries have been rallying outside of the local strip club. OK, well... they weren't there to take advantage of the Fox Hole's services, but rather to utilize their bullhorns to talk down the businesses' potential patrons. They've taken pictures of license plates in the parking lot and posted them on their website.

And they've been doing this for the past four years.

After a lawsuit against the church was struck down because of free speech rights, Tom George, the club's owner, had an idea. If the church was going to protest his club, why not have his club protest the church?

And that's what they did.

As people arrived for services at New Beginnings Ministries, they were also greeted with strippers from The Fox Hole.

That's right. The tables were turned.

Score one for the Fox Hole.

Here are my thoughts...

1. Do I think stripping is an admirable profession? No. Owning a strip club? Double no.

2. Do I think the church was right in what they did? No. Not at all. Bullhorns yelling down people? Not cool. Taking pictures of license plates and posting them on your website? Way not cool.

3. Which is more important... that people stop going to strip clubs or that they find Jesus? Which is more important... that these women stop stripping or that they find Jesus? The one thing this church has done with their actions is pretty much guarantee that none of them will have anything to do with any of these people coming to Christ. We can only pray that others will be able to show them the love of Jesus in a more constructive way.

4. I get really upset when people, under the authority of the church, make the death and resurrection of Jesus into a license to be a jerk. Matter of fact, I think it's interesting to compare how Jesus treated 'stripper types' compared to how this pastor and church does. Jesus didn't whip out his bullhorn (hey, it coulda happened) and bully people. He doesn't try to shame them into loving him either. And he doesn't get angry. In fact, he keeps his anger for the Pharisees; the religous people who were always pointing their fingers.

5. We've got to get past the thinking that non-christians are going to act like Christians. They won't. Ever. Truth be told: if we were really all that serious, we'd have plenty of work just making sure that Christians acted like Christians.

6. It's so easy for some people to get so wrapped up in fighting evil that they lose any chance they ever had at stopping the evil they're fighting against. (Read that one twice)

Should Christians stand against evil and sin? Of course. I'm just not sure this is the way to do it.

So... if you're asking me which side I'm taking on this one... I'm more prone to side with the strippers. They simply turned the tables on the church that has been bullying them for the past four years.

What's your take?

I'd love to hear it.

Todd

PS -- I'm resisting all the temptation to say the obvious jokes (that church attendance is up 25% since the strippers showed up, or that the church's offering is now mysteriously missing all the $1 bills). That just wouldn't be cool.

Comments

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John Atkinson on Tue, August 10, 2010

CS I would humbly ask you this question, if the in your face straight forward approach is always right, then why is the Gospel dying in this country? 4000 churches are closing their doors each year in this country, less people are attending church than any time in its history, our kids are growing up in a country that is becoming more morally bankrupt all the time, and honor and character have become four letter words in a society whose moral fiber in under attack. Perhaps if we would rethink the way do things in this changing world we might realize there are many ways to share the Gospel, and different people require a different approach. I’m not saying its always wrong to be straight forward with our faith, in fact many times it is absolutely the best way, but my question is, is it always the best way? I love reading about Bob Roberts and his journey in taking the Gospel into Muslim countries around the world, and if you read about him you will see that they spend a huge amount of time simply building relationships with the people in these Muslim countries before they ever share the Gospel, and if they didn’t, no one would ever hear it. If you walked into a strip club with the straight forward approach you would be kicked out the door you just walked in through long before you ever had a chance to reach anyone, which is why these women use the approach they are using, and it is working. Sometimes you need the relationship first or no matter how loud you proclaim the Gospel, no one will hear it, and if no one will listen to it, how can it change their lives.

Just my response to your thoughts. All done in love my friend!
CS on Tue, August 10, 2010

John:

“CS I would humbly ask you this question, if the in your face straight forward approach is always right, then why is the Gospel dying in this country?”

I would specifically say that churches are shutting their doors, moral depravity, and the degradation of society is happening specifically because the Gospel is not being shared in a straightforward way anymore that would lead to conviction of sin. And of those who call themselves Christians, few can explain what it actually takes to become a Christian.

The numbers back this up. According to Bill Bright of Campus Crusade For Christ, only 2% of Christians actively share their faith on a regular basis. Christianity Today says that only 19% of those who call themselves Christians are, “active Christians,” who do things like evangelism. And a Barna survey said that 37% of Christians believe people can be good enough to merit Heaven.

“I’m not saying its always wrong to be straight forward with our faith, in fact many times it is absolutely the best way, but my question is, is it always the best way?”

I’ll ask the opposite of this question: do we have a biblical precedence or command to follow the, “relationship model,” or an example where someone used a long-term method of sharing the Gospel?

“If you walked into a strip club with the straight forward approach you would be kicked out the door you just walked in through long before you ever had a chance to reach anyone, which is why these women use the approach they are using, and it is working.”

What about approaching the women in a straightforward manner when they’re outside of the clubs? Do they go shopping or to the libraries ever? Why not approach them outside their strip club setting?

Also, just because something is working does not mean that it is the right way. That’s pragmatism, and that is generally not compatible with what the Bible prescribes.

“Sometimes you need the relationship first or no matter how loud you proclaim the Gospel, no one will hear it, and if no one will listen to it, how can it change their lives. “

Is there a biblical reference to which you could direct me that would back this up a little bit more? There is a part of me that would say, “yes, sometimes in rare circumstances that could be the case,” but then there’s a greater part of me that says, “the power of the Gospel is stronger than any need for establishing a relationship first.”

—
CS
JonL on Thu, August 12, 2010

When, if ever, is “public shame” or “public rebuke” appropriate?

And how can it be done in accordance with the Gospel?
Christopher Fontenot on Sun, August 15, 2010

Who is the writer of this story? The reason I ask is because of the description of the activity of the church members. It is interesting that no one in this forum actually witnessed the events of the church members so they automatically assume that those on the bullhorns were being intentionally offensive. Could it be that the writer has a certain bias against Christians who publicly proclaim the Gospel?

I preach to the line of people at the DMV on the mornings of my week off. The Colonel of the State Police in Louisiana has given us certain restrictions in our efforts to spread the Good News. We cannot be closer than 100 ft to the front door and we cannot use amplification. One person called 911 the other day because someone was shouting Scripture at them. It could have been easily reported that we shout at people as we do the ministry of public preaching but we are only shouting because we have to cover 100 ft of air space as well as the drive by traffic of early morning commuters.

If this church is using amplification to preach the Gospel, including telling patrons that lust is the same as adultery, then I applaud their efforts and encourage them to continue. It will not be a popular ministry according to the public but they are doing the work of God by telling people how they can have their sins forgiven. Healing Place Church goes out to the strip clubs in Baton Rouge as well as the prostitutes walking the streets and give them roses to “show them the love of Jesus.” If they are not telling them about repentance, the exceeding sinfulness of sin and how they can be forgiven….then are they really showing them His love? To make someone feel good about their sin and make yourself feel good in the process because you did something nice and the result is they probably like you now is not the hands and feet of Jesus Christ.

Perhaps we should judge their actions only after we have actually witnessed what they are doing and not trust the report of a possible biased observer.
Leonard on Mon, August 16, 2010

CF,
Shouting at people to reveal their sin… This is the method you endorse? Okay… Most people I have met who are street preachers have the same following character traits…

Social skills are minimal
Self awareness is challenged
Borderline narcissism
Driven by emotions other than compassion and love, but use love as the banner for how they treat people.

I use friendship evangelism all the time. Led literally countless numbers of people to Christ this way. The excuse of “what if someone dies before you get around to sharing Christ” is lame. It is a smoke screen to justify being a bible bully.

I share Christ with strangers all the time. Led literally countless numbers of people to Christ this way. But never once by making speeches. Always by caring for the person.
Christopher Fontenot on Mon, August 16, 2010

Leonard,

I don’t doubt that you led countless numbers to Christ but the question is, “Did they stay?”

I don’t endorse shouting AT anyone for any reason. I simply mean that sometimes you must elevate your voice in order to overcome the surrounding noise whether you use amplification or not. Based on my past life before God regenerated me, the noise level at some of these clubs requires amplification to overcome.

I don’t recall Isaiah or Jeremiah or John the Baptist using friendship evangelism but then again, why would we ever use such an old book as an example?
Leonard on Mon, August 16, 2010

The people I lead to Christ have a high staying ratio. It is because there is a relationship in which they can ask questions, get instruction and become disciples. How about those you shout verses at?

I actually don’t recall Isaiah, Jeremiah or John the baptist doing evangelism. But then I try not to prooftext my positions from such an old book.

I remember when Isaiah said… nope I will not use a sound system… oh wait. When do you see anyone shouting scriptures at someone in the bible? To find that you would have to prooftext that really old book.

God in heaven wants a deeply connected relationship with us. One in which we would cry out Abba Father. One in which we would turn to him in love. How is this achieved by shouting verses from 100 feet away while people are in line at the DMV.

Why not bring the people in line a bottle of water, ask them if there was any way you could pray for them that day, get a number from them that you could check with them later and see how they are.

Why do you have to shout verses, who is that really about? If the goal was to make sure people understood that God loved them and that he sent his Son to die for them and that if they would believe in Him they could find everlasting life, then how does standing 100 feet away shouting verses help?

I don’t know anyone who has ever given their life to Christ from the method you describe at the DMV. I do however know several people who are put off by that brand of faith.

Jesus came to seek and save… not shout and condemn. He came to bring life… not present an angry face for God.
reggie on Mon, August 16, 2010

im not going to get in the middle of lenard and chris, but for a while i have been contemplating starting a multisite at a local strip club. wondering what that would look like, who to ask,what kind of flack i would recieve .... anybody have any thoughts?
Christopher Fontenot on Mon, August 16, 2010

Leonard,

Isaiah, Jeremiah and John all publicly preached what God told them to say without considering whether or not the hearers would approve or even like what they were about to say. The truth of the ENTIRE Gospel is a very convicting message. So convicting that one is either broken or hardened by it. That is God’s plan…not mine.

Though you dismiss the question of �what if someone dies before you get around to sharing Christ� as lame yet I see you have not answered it either. Would you be willing to give an answer to that question or does the obvious answer contradict your idea of evangelism? I have no problem with befriending the people to whom I witness but not at the expense of the Gospel. The Bible tells us it is that message preached that God uses to bring about regeneration required for true salvation, not the nice deeds we do. We give away Bibles, water, coffee, hot chocolate, donuts and goodies from Starbucks. We also tell them how holy God is and how He sees sin and how He deals with sin and how He hates sin and how he conquered sin, death and the grave and how we can be forgiven. The Gospel is priority because it is eternal.

Also, I trust absolutely in the sovereignty of God in salvation. I know He expects us to only be faithful to give away what was freely given to us. I don’t keep score. I really don’t want to know because I am afraid of claiming credit for what only God can do. I do know that what God does through me is either planting or watering and every now and then, I get to see the fruit. Jeremiah saw none but it didn’t shake his faithfulness. He proclaimed it as often as God gave it to him. I plan on doing the same no matter what anyone thinks of it.
Leonard on Mon, August 16, 2010

CF, this certainly is not getting us anywhere. Nope, the three guys did not practice evangelism. Did they speak a message? sure did, but you called it evangelism. It is not. If you want to back out of that statement, go ahead. The truth of the entire gospel is convicting, but does that require it to be yelled? For some reason you seem to think if it is yelled it is correct.

So do all those people you lead to Christ stick with it? How do you follow up and make disciples from these people you shout into the kingdom?

If someone dies before I tell them about Christ then they stand before God without excuse. For most of my life I have been sharing Christ with people.I have done the street evangelism, the cold turkey contacts door to door, the tell people in the park. By far… and I do mean by far the most effective way I have seen is friendship evangelism. It is the most effective way I have seen in helping people turn from sin to Christ and the most effective way I have seen in seeing that fruit remain. If the goal it to get the information out then by all means shout it, put it on a loud speaker and run it up and down the street. But if the goal is to make disciples, then we need to be sure the methods we use actually produce fruit and that the fruit remains.
Peter Hamm on Tue, August 17, 2010

Christopher writes “I don�t endorse shouting AT anyone for any reason.” Well then why is this conversation even going on. Leonard offers that he finds friendship evangelism more effective than shouting scriptures at people. You agree that shouting at people is not a good idea.

Is it possible you continue because you merely are contrary and argumentative? Or that any time somebody presents God’s Good News in any way other than your own preferred and prescribed method, they are automatically some kind of liveral or worse? Really, Christopher, I grow SO tired of your arguments here.

And please, stop with all the “well, if you don’t tell them about Jesus today they might die and go to hell”. Stop helping God across the street like some little old lady. Let me counter with this… What if you offend somebody to the point where they won’t listen to the Gospel at all and they die tonight? It’s a ridiculous argument either way that betrays a lack of faith in God. If we believe more in our own methods than we do in God’s Holy Spirit working through us and through His Word… what is that but idolatry?
JonL on Tue, August 17, 2010

Peter - why are you singling out CF for being contrary and argumentative? Both Leonard and CF seem convinced their methods are valid, and both question the methods of the other even though they share a level of agreement about some issues.

I would challenge you to reconsider your statement where you dismiss both “what if we don’t tell them about Jesus today they might die and go to hell” and “what if you offend somebody to the point where they won’t listen to the Gospel at all” as ridiculous arguments. I think they are both valid questions which should be considered in light of scripture, and can be informative in terms of balancing a fear of offending with an urgency to share the Gospel.

We know that the word of God is offensive to some, no matter how gently it may be presented.
Peter Hamm on Tue, August 17, 2010

JonL, thanks… but if you follow MMI for any length of time (I’ve been a regular here for years), you see that Christopher is often argumentative, and in this case, only for argument’s sake, it seems, as he’s put forward that he also doesn’t like “shouting Scripture at people”.

Leonard is not contrary and argumentative. If you can see the history of his postings here you can clearly see that.

God’s message is offensive to some, it does not mean we strive to be offensive in our own right.
JonL on Tue, August 17, 2010

Peter, I have followed MMI for a long period of time (though I rarely comment). Regardless of past behaviour (of which I’m not sure I agree with your conclusion), it seems to me neither Leonard or CF is being more argumentative then the other in this situation, and that both could stand to learn something from the other.

In your response to Christopher, you brought up an interesting point - “If we believe more in our own methods than we do in God�s Holy Spirit working through us and through His Word�” Is it possible God has called Christopher (and others) to use open-air preaching as a method of evangelism whereas Leonard has been called to friendship evangelism? Are there situations where both methods have their merits (or disadvantages)? Are both methods based on biblical concepts?

Is open-air preaching by nature more offensive than friendship evangelism?

I’m not pushing one method or another, or saying both methods or right or wrong, or that everybody is right. I’m just not convinced that in this situation that CF is the bad guy and Leonard is the good guy.
Peter Hamm on Tue, August 17, 2010

JonL writes [Is open-air preaching by nature more offensive than friendship evangelism?] Yes. I hear people complain about such preaching on a regular basis. I have yet to hear somebody complain that they were offended by a genuine friendship.

As far as comparing our two “arguers” goes, only one is arguing for shouting at people and then saying “I don�t endorse shouting AT anyone for any reason.” and then continuing to argue.