Monday Morning Insights

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    The People Formerly Known as the Congregation

    Money was a great concern. And, for a moment, we believed you when you told us God would reward us for our tithes - or curse us if we didn’t. The Law is just so much easier to preach than Grace. My goodness, if you told us that the 1st century church held everything in common - you might be accused of being a socialist - and of course, capitalism is a direct gift from God. Please further note: Malachi 3 is speaking to the priests of Israel. They weren’t the cheerful givers God speaks of loving.

    We grew weary from your Edifice Complex pathologies - building projects more important than the people in your neighbourhood...or in your pews. It wasn’t God telling you to “enlarge the place of your tent” - it was your ego. And, by the way, a multi-million dollar, state of the art building is hardly a tent.

    We no longer buy your call to be “fastest growing” church in wherever. That is your need. You want a bigger audience. We won’t be part of one.

    Our ears are still ringing from the volume, but...Jesus is not our boyfriend - and we will no longer sing your silly love songs that suggest He is. Happy clappy tunes bear no witness to the reality of the world we live in, the powers and principalities we confront, or are worthy of the one we proclaim King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

    You offered us a myriad of programs to join - volunteer positions to assuage our desire to be connected. We could be greeters, parking lot attendants, coffee baristas, book store helpers, children’s ministry workers, media ministry drones - whatever you needed to fulfill your dreams of corporate glory. Perhaps you’ve noticed, we aren’t there anymore.

    We are The People formerly known as The Congregation. We have not stopped loving the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Nor do we avoid “the assembling of the saints.” We just don’t assemble under your supposed leadership. We meet in coffee shops, around dinner tables, in the parks and on the streets. We connect virtually across space and time - engaged in generative conversations - teaching and being taught.

    Continue here to read the rest of Bill’s post… then return here to give your comments...

    Bill Kinnon writes, "Let me introduce you to The People formerly known as The Congregation. There are millions of us. We are people - flesh and blood - image bearers of the Creator - eikons, if you will. We are not numbers. We are the eikons who once sat in the uncomfortable pews or plush theatre seating of your preaching venues. We sat passively while you proof-texted your way through 3, 4, 5 or no point sermons - attempting to tell us how you and your reading of The Bible had a plan for our lives. Perhaps God does have a plan for us - it just doesn't seem to jive with yours...

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    1. kent on Tue, April 10, 2007

      Having read this a number of times, and having read the John Frye’s response piece and the two other posts that follow similar lines I keep coming back to the same thing - We are doing the best we can. We know we are not getting it right, we know we are not finished products but we are giving it all we got. (Oh by the way the only coffee bar we have the Bunn coffee maker in the kitchen. Baristas is name I have never called anyone and it doesn’t sound Christian or Christ follower or whatever we are called at this moment.)


      I do not serve a mega church. I am thankful for mega churches and frankly I am in awe of them. I don’t have the horses to pull that off and I am okay with that. I say that so you understand I am not anti-mega church. But I also know that out of the more than 350,000 only about 1500 are mega churches. So when I read this I also know that I don’t serve the fastest growing anything, and our building is great but it is not huge, and it will not bolster anyone’s ego.


      So the bottom line is this, I want the same thing as Bill Kinnon does, I want to serve Jesus, care for my community and neighborhood, honor God in all I do. I really do, but we screw up. Yup sometimes we push programs too hard and we worry about money because bills have to be paid. We falter and fail, but we are trying. I am willing to learn anything and give it a try. We are trying. Give us our due, we are trying to do it right. We are striving to obey Jesus. Walk with us, tell us what you think and feel, and then pitch in and help.


      So when I read this I agree with you, I know that my church and the churches down the street miss the mark, but know this, at this moment, for today, we are giving it all we got.

    2. Chip Sanders on Tue, April 10, 2007

      I could write a bunch of snide sarcastic comments about how “they” are doing things wrong too. But I won’t waste my time. I would rather be a part of the solution. Too often we get hung up on the complainers and those who are unhappy. But the ones who used to be the congregation or whatever they want to call themselves aren’t the people we are called to reach anyway. Go ahead and be unhappy with the way “we” are doing church. But I for one am going to continue to pursue Christ and try with the help of the Holy Spirit to share the gospel with more people, to love them unconditionally and to improve the way I lead my people. The criticism isn’t new and it isn’t particularily constructive so I’ll just change the channel now.

    3. Peter Hamm on Tue, April 10, 2007

      EXCELLENT post.


      We need to invite people in to build the church from within our hearts with authenticity, passion, and excellence, not offer them spiritual programs to fill their schedules.

    4. nora on Tue, April 10, 2007

      Wow, Kent, what a humble and real response.  Well said.

    5. Leonard on Tue, April 10, 2007

      It is hard for me not to read this and not get my panties in a bunch. I get the sentiments shared but they feel like someone is using a shotgun to fend off a fly. After enough shots you might get the fly but at what cost.  Anyone with a grip could write this about the church.  Any pastor could write this about his congregation but why? 


      These words hurt my heart because they assume the worst of pastors and leaders, they blame pastors and leaders, and they attack even.  Give a prophetic call but don’t be a victim.

    6. Brent on Tue, April 10, 2007

      Sounds like a ‘root of bitterness’ to me.  Nobody’s perfect, and we’re all trying.  If you look at the growth of the ‘attractional’ churches, there are obviously a lot of people who don’t feel the way this writer does.

    7. SLW on Tue, April 10, 2007

      I am with Brent. Alot of sour grapes and teenage angst. It sounds like someone needs to grow up and learn to submit to the body of Christ.

    8. Peter Hamm on Tue, April 10, 2007

      Even if you’re right, Brent, this kind of “rant” STILL should be listened to. And the fact of the matter is, if we are creating church cultures that foster this kind of “complaining”, chances are they are NOT cultures rooted in Ephesians 4 equipping, which is what we pastors need to do. We EXIST to equip the saints for ministry, not put on programs to fill their schedules.

    9. I_am_not on Tue, April 10, 2007

      Kent, in your good response, you also said, “Walk with us, tell us what you think and feel, and then pitch in and help.”  We attempted this with our former pastor, but any time our thoughts and feelings didn’t jive with the pastor’s take on things, we were dismissed, told to find another church or told to pipe-down and submit to the pastor’s authority.


      However, I do sense from your response that if members of your congregation came to you with their thoughts and feelings, even if they didn’t align with your own, you’d still love them like Jesus and try to find some common ground.


      Blessings to you.

    10. SLW on Tue, April 10, 2007

      I_am_not:


      When you said, “any time our thoughts and feelings didn’t jive with the pastor’s take on things, we were dismissed, told to find another church or told to pipe-down and submit to the pastor’s authority.” I truly felt for you. I am growing disturbed that pastoral ministry is increasingly monarchial (a general) and less and less communal (a shepherd among sheep). If folk feel like they are “managed” at arms length or “suppressed” I guess I can see the justification for some of the angst. Nonetheless, we still need to honor Christ’s perception of how we’re connected and not abandon the body.

    11. Jamie Arpin-Riccci on Tue, April 10, 2007

      When I first read Bill’s post on his blog, I shared the initial feelings of several commenters here- it seemed bitter and angry.  However, after considering it more, recognizing that Bill (and thousands of others like him) have genuinely been hurt by expressions of church that desperately need to be called out, recognizing that Bill clearly states on his blog (and it would be wise for the editors of this site to add it here) that the piece was intentional polemic, recognizing that my own blessings of not having experienced the same woundings at the hands of fellow Christians-  recognizing all that, I felt deeply that Bill’s message needed to be heard.


      As I read the Psalms I see the writers, especially David, express sentiments to God that make you pause and wonder about his state of heart and mind when it was written.  And yet, in the broken honesty of those Scriptures we see God’s willingness and grace towards His people.  Bill does not claim his piece is Gospel.  He does not claim his piece is free of emotion.  Can we not look past our defensiveness long enough to hear a brother (and thousands like him) share his heart and consider what truths lie in his words?


      I am thankful, at least, that most readers here have done so.


      In His Peace,


      Jamie Arpin-Ricci

    12. Alan on Tue, April 10, 2007

      When I read something like Bill has written I can only imagine what would have been written about the first century church.  Humans being human, we can just imagine what was said after Peter preached and 3,000 were added:  “We are getting too big!!  or I like a small church Family!!”  Who couldn’t pick apart Peter’s sermon!!  Or how unqualified he was to be preaching it!!  I know I was capable of that and did that.


          But when I started doing something to help get the message of who Jesus is and how he can change your future, my critiquing became less critical.  When I started helping those by visiting with the sick or homebound and coming away feeling humbled because they were ministering to me more than I was ministering to them.  If they were not complaining but rejoicing in their place in life, it made my critiquing seem pale and small.  If “the least of these”  can look forward to eternity with joy and anticipation in there heart and on there face,  why I am complaining about this grain of sand in eternity.  I have a saint in my church that has had three strokes and she still laughs and praises God.


      I have been a part of a mega church and a small church.  They both can minister to people, and have people in the congregation that are looking for the perfect church.  I don’t believe they will find it this side of the 2nd coming.   May we all minister IN CHRIST.

    13. Ricky on Tue, April 10, 2007

      Bravo, Peter, bravo!

    14. dpastordan on Wed, April 11, 2007

      Hmmmm.  Sounds like a baby-boomer complaining about a specific type of mega-church possibly with an authoritative style leadership.  I’m assuming Bill has spoken to plenty of folks who expressed the sentiments in his post.  Some legitimate gripes I pick up on:


      * Sappy, entertainment style music or worship. 


      * A lack of buy in to the vision of the church.  This can disconnect a person who is serving and tithing. 


      * Inadequate discipleship and teaching methods.  If a person only attends worship and no other teaching function of the church, it becomes easier to pick apart a pastor’s sermon. 


      * Fellowship seems to be missing.  A gathering of people is not a fellowship.  Fellowship connects.  Again, I suspect that some of the complainers may not be part of a small group process within the church they complain about.


      A “program oriented” sometimes church produces people who easily disconnect.  Size does not matter because people can disconnect in big and small churches.   If people are not connected into the body life like a family and community…they will become discontent and leave.  This is why I believe Jesus emphasized shepherding so much.  Care, guide, discipline, and inspect the flock to keep the sheep healthy…healthy sheep reproduce.

    15. Dave on Wed, April 11, 2007

      Interesting to compare this list of why people are “formerly known as the congregation” to the list from a couple of days ago in “And the #1 Reason People Leave Your Church is…”


      I have to say that the whole thing sounds to me like an angry rant by a bitter, self-obsessed individual that didn’t get his or her own way in a church.  If they don’t like their “ears ringing from the volume,” then go somewhere else, because I happen to like the volume.  Or is there a demand that I conform to their version of what’s appropriate? The attitude portrayed seems defiant towards leadership and in clear conflict with several passages of scripture such as Heb 13:7, Heb 13:17, 1Th 5:12 and 1Ti 5:17. 


      Frankly, if a person with an attitude represented by this article were in my church, I think I’d find them to be a constant challenge.  If he/she is so unhappy, find another fellowship.  Oh, but wait, they gave up on churchy fellowship, choosing instead to “fellowship” with people at Starbucks, or in the park, having, no doubt, tried every church in the area and found them all filled with the same failures and wickedness laid out in the article.


      Seeker type churches are often accused of catering to today’s “consumer mentality” but this article illustrates consumerism more plainly than any seeker church I’ve been in.


      What a load of…..


      Dave

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