Tim Keller: The Greatest Need in the American Church
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Tue, August 21, 2007
- Viewed 52
- (12) comments so far
If our cities are largely pagan while our countryside is largely Christian, then our society and culture will continue to slide into paganism. And that is exactly what is happening. Christians strengthen somewhat away from the cities and they have made some political gains, but that is not effecting cultural products much. It is because in the center cities (NYC, Boston, LA, Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco, Washington DC) the percentages of people living and working there who are Christians are minuscule.
Jim Boice proposed that evangelical Christians need to live in the major cities at a higher percentage than the population at large (See Two Cities, p.163ff.) Currently 50% of the U.S. population live in urban areas (and 25% lives in just the 10 largest urban areas.) Boice proposes that evangelicals should be living in cities in at least the same percentages or more. As confirmation of Boice’s belief consider how much impact both the Jewish and the gay communities have had on our culture. Why? Though neither is more than 3-4% of the total population, they each comprise over 20% of the population of Manhattan (and in other center cities. )
So we have two problems. First, evangelicals (especially Anglos) in general are quite negative about U.S. cities and city living. Second, you can’t ‘do church’ in exactly the same way in a city as you do it elsewhere, not if you want to actually convert hard-core secular people to Christianity. There are churches that set up in cities without adapting to their environment. Ironically, they can grow rather well anyway in cities by just gathering in the young already-evangelicals who are temporarily living in the city after college. But that is not the way to make the cities heavily Christian—which is the crying need today.
Question: What is the greatest, most crying need in the American church today? Response from Tim Keller, Senior Pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church, Manhattan, NY: The evangelical church must stay true to its Biblical foundations, and it must maintain and enhance the effectiveness of its expository preaching, the holiness of its members, the ‘thickness’ of its counter-cultural community, the fervor of its evangelism. But if it doesn’t learn how to do this in our biggest cities then we don’t have much hope for our culture...
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Ricky on Tue, August 21, 2007
From the article:
“The evangelical church must stay true to its Biblical foundations, and it must maintain and enhance the effectiveness of its expository preaching, the holiness of its members, the ‘thickness’ of its counter-cultural community, the fervor of its evangelism.”
Sorry, Mr. Keller, but the Western Church has long left its “foundations.” It occurred in the time of Constantine and has never looked back.
In addition, another problem is to think that “expository preaching,” is the cure-all for the church. It is not. In fact, preaching does virtually nothing to change a person. Why? Because it is easily forgotten when it is not continually witnessed being fleshed out.
We have seen some of the greatest preachers in the history of the church in the past few generations, the advent of television and the capability of broadcasting a message around the globe and what has it accomplished? Nothing.
Mr. Keller apparently believes that we can preach or teach ourselves into that same state of effectiveness that the Early Church enjoyed. If so, then Mr. Keller is delusional.
What we need is to truly grasp or rather reclaim what it means to “be” the church, which would take us laying aside the filthy garments of our own designs.
Until then, we’ll remain asleep in the light.
Peter Hamm on Tue, August 21, 2007
Ricky,
[In fact, preaching does virtually nothing to change a person. Why? Because it is easily forgotten when it is not continually witnessed being fleshed out.]
Oh my gosh, I agree with almost everything you just said, Ricky… (somebody write this down…) Preaching doesn’t change lives, Jesus changes lives.
That said, some of us are really trying, with Christ’s help and leadership, to model, preach, and make disciples who “are” the church rather than “going” to church. You ought to check out some of those churches… There really are some “success stories” out here.
Daniel D. Farmer on Tue, August 21, 2007
Ricky, I find it amazing that you’re able to comment on so many threads. Congratulations?
Focus on the positive my friend. Rev. Keller may be a little over-enthusiastic about ‘expository’ preaching, but it is absolutely central for the people of God to know their story (which is difficult when the texts are barely grappled with).
Yes, the Church compromised its witness in the days of Constantine, but this is precisely an opportunity to recover “the ‘thickness’ of its counter-cultural community,” wouldn’t you say?
The Church needs to recover the cost of discipleship, a better understanding of its own story as the people of God, and a vision for how to interface with the world.
Certainly moving to the city seems like a good idea. This is what the New Monasticism talks about (“relocating to the abandoned places of empire” is how they put it, I believe).
Good thoughts here from Rev. Keller—though I think his model of cultural engagement is problematic (even a wholly faithful church cannot keep a culture from ‘sliding into paganism’—and that’s ok, since the church is only called to be the church, not to ‘fix’ others on the outside…).
My two cents.
-Daniel-
Leonard on Tue, August 21, 2007
I think Keller’s point on cities is right on. We live in a culture today that values moving away as we retire. A culture that longs for a slower life. A culture that desires a safer place to raise our children. None of these are intrinsically wrong but they do drip a bit of self-preservations and…well lack a certain missional design.
Christians have all but evacuated major cities today. We have churches moving out of the city centers because they have changed, we have moms and dads moving out to give their kids better educations, we have community leaders retiring to a quieter area and as a result, the light in many cities is burning less and less bright.
DanielR (a different Daniel) on Tue, August 21, 2007
Ricky, you’re a glass-half-empty kind of guy aren’t you? I’m glass-half-full guy when it comes to the church, I love the Christian Church as a whole. Perfect? No. Mistakes? Sure. Are there charlatans, con artists and false teachers? Yep, are now and always have been. And still I love the church, not the building or the institution but Christians, the Body of Christ.
From your comments and the titles of your various blogs (THE CHURCH OF NO CRAP / CHRISTENDUMB – SCREWING BELIEVERS SINCE A.D. 325 / THE REBELLION OF TRUTH - PARTING THE CURTAINS TO EXPOSE THE TRUTH ABOUT ORGANIZED RELIGION AND ITS MOUTHPIECE…THE INSTITUTIONALIZED CHURCH / CHURCH OUTING- BRINGING ALL OF THE DARKNESS DONE IN THE NAME OF “CHURCH” INTO THE LIGHT) it’s obvious you have serious issues with what you see as the church today. Don’t let the bad blind you to the good.
Rather than run down “the church” and decry all the problems, I’ll do what I can to build it up, help where I can, and try not to worry too much about everything I cannot affect. Remember, it’s not about the institution but about the body of Christ.
“Some wish to live within the sound of Church or Chapel bell. I want to run a Rescue Shop within a yard of hell.” - C.T. Studd.
Ricky on Wed, August 22, 2007
DanielR:
“Rather than run down ‘the church’ and decry all the problems, I’ll do what I can to build it up, help where I can, and try not to worry too much about everything I cannot affect. Remember, it’s not about the institution but about the body of Christ.”
I don’t see myself as “running down the church,” but rather as a chaperone…one who seeks to protect the Church from being molested by those who think they know how to treat a lady but really only seeks to gratify themselves.
I am passionate about the Church, the Bride of Christ, and as one who has served for years in the institutionalized church, I have seen where the Bride of Christ has not been properly chaperoned by those who have called themselves “leaders,” but rather have allowed the Church to prostitute herself to the world, thus squandering that precious “virginity” called “our witness.”
But, thankfully, The Church is pure, spotless and awaiting her Groom. She is the prudent virgin who has trimmed her lamp and seeks nothing more than to please her husband.
My heart cries for those who remain in the institutionalized church…Peter, Leonard, Todd, and you DanielR. My prayer is that all of our eyes be opened to the Truth. When that happens, we’ll flee what we thought was “church” but was really nothing more than a trap.
Ricky on Wed, August 22, 2007
Daniel D. Farmer:
“Rev. Keller may be a little over-enthusiastic about ‘expository’ preaching, but it is absolutely central for the people of God to know their story (which is difficult when the texts are barely grappled with).”
How has it become more “absolutely central” for God’s people to “know their story” NOW than those brother and sisters who lived in the First Century?
They had neither texts, nor the bible and yet look what they did! They effectively evangelized the known world at the time with a witness that lasted for generations.
And yet we find ourselves building state-of-the-art buildings that house me-centered “worship,” consumer-oriented programs, all preparing the way for the “man of God” to speak his version of God’s vision for mankind and praying for “revival.”
I believe the solution is much simpler than we think. We must learn to live what the believers in the First Century lived…vibrant community that seeks to edify, encourage and care for its members. That’s what the world is waiting to see.
Instead, they witness a group of people who are more concerned with looking like the world than being different from it.
Peter Hamm on Wed, August 22, 2007
Yeah, well, Ricky,
This particular forum on the internet is really designed for people who are talking about doing innovative ministry and excellend diligent leadership within the structure of the institutionalized church. For one reason or another, you’ve obviously decided that the institituaionalized church is not even valid. So… It’s been said before and will be again… Perhaps this just isn’t the place for you.
The “institutionalized church” that I am serving in is passionate about our mission, “Reaching people and changing lives”. (WE reach people, GOD changes lives.) I see people growing and serving in Christ within and without the church walls every day, growing in faith in community with each other. It’s awe-inspiring, like Acts 2 says it should be.
It aches me a little that you didn’t have this experience.
Ricky on Wed, August 22, 2007
Peter:
“This particular forum on the internet is really designed for people who are talking about doing innovative ministry and excellend diligent leadership within the structure of the institutionalized church.”
“Innovative ministry.” Sounds great but is really little more than dressing a mannequin. It’s the same old song and dance, “New and Improved!”
“The ‘institutionalized church’ that I am serving in is passionate about our mission, ‘Reaching people and changing lives’”
I went to your organization’s website the other day and, quite frankly, found it to be no different than the dozens of other “religious sites” on the web.
Peter, tell me, what distinguishes your organization from those in your city? What great exception is your organization from the status quo? I’m really very interested in what you have to say.
“It’s awe-inspiring, like Acts 2 says it should be.”
No offense, brother, but there’s not a person who frequents this site, including myself, who truly knows how a New Testament church functions because we view everything through the lens of our experience and teaching, which has been fatally flawed for hundreds of years.
The difference between us is that I’m passionate about finding out.
Peter Hamm on Wed, August 22, 2007
Ricky,
I’m also passionate about finding out. You judged my church’s effectiveness based on our web site? With all due respect, that’s ridiculous. But even then, you’d see, if you looked, that our church is helping to build houses for “third-world dwellers” in Jamaica (a great ministry that we send a huge team to work in every year, and which is led by people from our church), teaching our members how to be bibilcally responsible with their money… this is just on the front page…
You’re really negative about the institutionalized church in contemporary times. (I think you are on record as not believing in the validity of the institutional church AT ALL…) Again, I’m sorry if it’s because of bad experiences, but consider at least the possibility that perhaps my church, and Leonard’s, and Todd’s, And Daniel’s are just getting it right and the ones you’ve been burned by (perhaps) are just not.
What distinguishes our church? We do ministry that is relevant to people, in language and in culture they can understand, and many many are coming to know Christ. Those people then tend to be the most involved in the community and beyond in things like the School Board (we have several members or our leadership team who also serve on that body), running THE ONLY local homeless shelter, building houses for those who can’t afford them (Habitat), and running a local Christian Coffeehouse that VERY effectively reaches out to torubled teens… this list goes on. The people in my congregation RUN and DO those ministries, and most of what I just mentioned are jsut the ones that are OUTSIDE the church. We do loads of stuff inside, too. I’m immensely honored to be partnered in ministry with these wonderful Christ-followers.
I actually take exception to your dismissing our church based on a cursory visit to our web site, (which, by the way, if you look for it, includes ways to get people involved in a ministry to divorced people that reaches out WAY beyond the walls of the church, a brand new ministry to those struggling with grief, get involved in small group “house churches” to REALLY do life together, get involved in helping people with projects (like moving) that they can’t do themselves (this also goes outside the regular “church walls”), give assistance to senior citizens, and so on…
But what I REALLY hold up as an example is our people, who actually ARE the church… Regular old Christ-following, imperfect, broken people who are living out their life in Christ in their daily lives in front of their co-workers, neighbors, friends, and family, and making differences in our community. They live an intriguing and invigorating Christian life in front of everyone, and we have LOADS of “pre-believers” who visit every week because of it. People who just have got to find out what it is that we have. It’s Acts 2 ministry all over the place.
Your assumption that we are just dressing up a mannequin when you have never set foot in our building is a little insulting, Ricky. It’s a lot insulting actually, especially in light of what I do know about the kind of church I serve in. Perhaps you could tone it down a few notches. Until then, this is probably the last time I should respond to your apparently bitter and flippant comments.
Leonard on Wed, August 22, 2007
This is a great article with some great insights, Ricky, quit hijacking it for your crazy agenda. Don’t bite in his junk you guys. His act is tired and been done before.
As for Keller’s points, there are some excellent thoughts concerning how cities are becoming more and more pagan. what are your thoughts. (not you Ricky, I an mot really interested in your bitterness since you would rather be bitter than heal.)
Daniel D. Farmer on Wed, August 22, 2007
Let the cities get more pagan. The Church, if it is faithful to its calling, will then stand out all the more. When the world sees believers living nonviolently, loving their enemies, sharing possessions, caring for the poor, and worshiping the Creator, then they will see that we are a holy nation, a city on a hill, and a light in the dark. The Church is the Israel of God. If our cities are ‘cleaned up’ by the presence of the Church, then that’s great, but I’m primarily interested in seeing the Church be the Church.
My two cents.
-Daniel-
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