Today’s Buzz: Church Pays Secretary the Same as Pastor, Meanwhile, Affluent Pastor Sues ABCNew
- Posted on July 26, 2007
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Televangelist Sues ABC’s 20/20
The Rev. Frederick K.C. Price may have two Bentleys, but a spokesman for his 22,000-member church says his Palos Verdes house doesn’t boast 25 rooms and he definitely doesn’t own a helicopter. A lawsuit Price filed Tuesday claims that ABC’s “20/20″ defamed him when it suggested otherwise, portraying him as a “hypocrite and thief” who financed an extravagant lifestyle with church funds. Price, founder of the Crenshaw Christian Center, was featured in a “20/20″ segment about well-heeled televangelists titled “Enough!” that the suit says “devastated, embarrassed and greatly humiliated” the 75-year-old. The suit also names Walt Disney Co., which owns ABC, and “20/20″ co-anchor John Stossel. More here. What? No Helicopter?
Virtual Jesus? Really!?
“A history changing event is about to occur. Soon over 2.1 billion Christians worldwide will be able to have private, verbal conversations with virtual Jesus from any phone, anytime, anywhere on a daily basis. TalkToJesus will use advanced speech and AI technology to enable millions to develop a personal, lasting relationship with the Lord–in a whole new way.” Here’s the story. Wonder if these people have ever heard of… oh… I don’t know… ... ... PRAYER?! My mind wonders why we’d need to invent a virutal Jesus when Jesus is as virtual as it gets.
Alternative Church Salary Systems
Check out the way Antioch Community Church in Waco, Texas pays its staff. Since its formation, the church has paid all of its staff members the same annual salary, which is currently $26,400. The only difference in pay is compensation for dependents—$400 a month for a spouse and $275 a month per child for up to four kids. “Our view is that God doesn’t value the work of the pastor more than he does the secretary because God called us all to use our spiritual gifts,” Jeff Abshire, Antioch’s administrative pastor, said. “Aren’t we all called to fulfill the Great Commission? Aren’t we all called to preach the gospel?” Abshire said Antioch pays low salaries because it wants to preserve its ministers’ calling from God. “We believe that we’ll have greater integrity with our people if we’re living off a salary that is similar to what most of the people in our church earn,” Abshire said. “It’s easier to preach about finances when the pastor has as much faith-need for God to provide as the congregation does.” Abshire acknowledged that many might perceive Antioch’s payment system as unusual. “We’re not saying this is for everybody,” he said. “We felt called to set up salaries this way, but we’re not saying that some other church is doing it the wrong way.” (I’d love to hear your input on this… I’ve never heard of this type of system before… what do you think?!) HT
A Former Pastor Goes Church Shopping
Andy Rowell is now out of the pastorate and looking for a church. In his search, he’s come up with his top nine things he likes about mainline churches; and top nine things he likes about non-denominational churches. It’s an interesting read.
Kind of a short buzz today. But I hope you have a great day!
Angry Televangelist suing ABC News; The real virtual Jesus; and why one church pays everyone the same: $26,400 (plus dependants). It's all in today's buzz...
Comments
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Camey on Thu, July 26, 2007
Virtual Jesus? Really!? - “… ... “PRAYER?! My mind wonders why we’d need to invent a virutal Jesus when Jesus is as virtual as it gets.” WHOOOAAAA! Amen!
Alternative Church Salary Systems = very, very interesting.
A Former Pastor Goes Church Shopping - definitely an interesting read. Thanks.
Bill on Thu, July 26, 2007
Commenting on the church staff salaries…
I have never heard of a church before setting up that kind of salary structure, but it is familiar to me.
It sounded a lot like the way we did salaries when I was with Campus Crusade, and perhaps this may be true for other para-church organizations.
It didn’t matter within CCC, where you were in the organization in terms of position. There were base salaries and adjustments made for dependents, housing allowance, geographic living adjustments etc…
Although I don’t agree with the above statement, “Antioch pays low salaries because it wants to preserve its ministers’ calling from God.” I am a pastor, and believe me I am not getting rich, but to intentionally pay low salaries I think devalues the calling. It may force that minister to be bi-vocational just to be able to make a living. I have never understood the mindset in the white, evangelical churches that the only way to keep the pastor humble is to keep him poor.
Wendi on Thu, July 26, 2007
I certainly believe that we should find ways to rid ourselves of the lay/clergy distinctives in regard to value to the ministry. However, we live in a particular context and must minister effectively in that context. Ministers have generally invested a great degree of time and money preparing themselves for the role to which they feel called. Furthermore, there is significantly more responsibility on the shoulders of the pastor than on those of the church secretary. She (or he) goes home each evening and is off duty until the next morning. Not so for the pastor.
In our context, people are paid based on their experience, education and training, and according to the responsibilities of the job relative to the overall organization. Reasonablness is in order, but I think pastors should certainly earn more than the church secretary.
Wendi
Leonard on Thu, July 26, 2007
I think it is a crazy system, so much for the don’t muzzle the ox mentality. As a pastor I am never done. My work week is never ended. I am on vacation this week and am still dealing with people’s crisis. What I need to know, the responsibility I face is much more than any other person in our church. If this church were to fail tomorrow, no one is going to say, if the secretary was just a bit more secretarial this church would not have failed. If families leave no one says, I am here because the secretary is so good. This in my opinion comes from mistrust and is a STUPID idea. Most pastors in the country are underpaid, and asking for a raise labels them as greedy or unwilling to sacrifice, they stay underpaid.
Treat with double honor those who lead, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. This does not flow from that principle.
Shane Vander Hart on Thu, July 26, 2007
This is a crazy system. This doesn’t take into consideration a pastor’s educational requirement, years of experience, and burden of responsibility.
In my last church my wife and I had to apply for child health care benefits because the church wasn’t providing adequately, and the person at the counter said, “yeah it is amazing how many pastors come in here.” What a terrible witness for the church.
I agree with Leonard, most pastors are underpaid.
Linda on Thu, July 26, 2007
Pastors like Price are often misjudged by the media and Christian community. Why should we even listen to 20/20 regarding Christian ministries such as Price and Benny Hinns? That may make some people mad but where do we get our information?
A while back our friend Bernie made the comment that a prominate minister lived in a house valued over a million dollars. If your going to condemn that pastor you’d have to condemn every pastor in Hawaii who owns a home because less than a million won’t buy you much and in twenty years a house could appreciate that much in some areas.
Todd ran a list of what pastors make and it is substantial as it should be. I’d vote for monetary equality for the secretary but only if it were me!
Daniel D. Farmer on Thu, July 26, 2007
I like the salary idea. It’s not for everybody. But how’s this for an even crazier idea: ministers in house churches who live with their congregations in a commune arrangement, where everyone’s income is put into a communal pot, and redistributed according to need! Hmm… sound like Acts 2:44-47 to anyone else??
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that God requires this of anyone, but perhaps the fact that it sounds so insane to our ears is a sign that our ears (and the brains they’re attached to) could do with some re-wiring?
Just 2 cents worth from your local loon.
Cheers,
-Daniel-
Peter Hamm on Thu, July 26, 2007
I love this.
[In the retraction, Stossel said “20/20? had thought Price was talking about himself in the sermon. “We used his quote out of context, and for that we apologize to Dr. Price and to the Crenshaw Christian Center and to you if we misled you,” Stossel said.]
Okay, he apologized. Something tells me far fewer people will find out about the apology than heard the misinformation. Very sloppy journalism indeed.
As far as the salary system is concerned… paying everybody the same sounds like a great idea on the surface… but the Pastors do indeed have a much harder job than the admin staff, and spend a lot more money in many cases just getting prepared. Leonard is right. It’s crazy…
Richard G. Vissers on Thu, July 26, 2007
Hmmmm, I seem to remember that “Woe to those who get labour without paying for it” - Jeremiah 22.13 so if you have higher expectations of your Pastor (like have more education, take on more leadership responsibility, and put in more time/effort) than say the secretary, then you have to pay more for the Pastor. Don’t confuse pay rate for labor & expertise with a persons value to a ministry.
DanielR (a different Daniel) on Fri, July 27, 2007
I think most people who know would agree that most people in ministry are underpaid. The problem is most people don’t know.
What most people hear about ministerial salaries is that Rev. Price has 2 Bentleys and lives in a mansion, but he doesn’t own his own helicopter so he’s suing ABC. They hear about the millions Jim Bakker got from PTL ministry, Bishop Eddie Long getting about 3 million in salary and benefits from his ministry, Creflo Dollar driving a Rolls Royce and traveling in a private jet. They hear about the extravagant wealth of people like TD Jakes, Benny Hinn, Paul Crouch, etc. What they don’t hear about is the low salaries of hard working, small church pastors. People hear about the luxury cars, mansions, and extravagant lifestyles, but no one in the media talks about the bi-vocational pastors and pastor’s wives working 2 jobs to support their husbands’ work.
The lawsuit says Price was “devastated, embarrassed and greatly humiliated” by the 20/20 report, I would be embarrassed and humiliated if I was living in a mansion, driving a Bentley, and asking working class people to tithe their 10% so I could continue to draw a salary 10 times what most of them make. I would be embarrassed to file a lawsuit over the issue. And I would be embarrassed if I was a member of the church supporting such an extravagant lifestyle for it’s Pastor.
It irks me when I think of the waste, of the kingdom work that could be done with that money. It’s money given to God, for God’s work, and it’s not being used for God’s work if it’s buying the Pastor an extravagant lifestyle.
Sorry, I’ll get off the soapbox now.
Linda on Fri, July 27, 2007
DanielR,
Are you sure your right about the extravagant salaries and vehicles? Most of the pastors you mentioned are best selling authors. They don’t need a salary from their church.
I do think the problem is pastors not teaching the church about giving. Bill Hybel in his book Courageous Leadership wrote, “When they were behind in their weekly budget and felt no hope for survival, Hybels did something drastic. He announced to the congregation at the end of the service that he was going away for awhile. “I can no longer handle the financial pressures of this church,” he said. The response of the people as he walked off the platform was, “We didn’t know.”
We all struggle some financially. It keeps our eyes on Jesus. Paying the pastor well is scriptural and should be taught.
Camey on Fri, July 27, 2007
One thing about the salaries is that no matter what amount is set there will always be discussion of whether it is too high or too low.
Lets face it: How many times when hearing of a pastor’s salary has there been 100% agreement that the amount was just right? (IF this has ever happened - someone please give testimony to that fact)
What may seem extravagant to one simply does not mean that to another. Besides…. how can we honestly know how that person uses their money just because they have a mansion and so forth? Do we know who all lives in the mansion? Sups there? Flies in the helicopter and for what reasons/destinations?
My hubby and I live in a highly secure gated community with two golf courses, each with their own country club, and plans for a third and don’t forget the private planes that fly in and out. To some it would seem that we are very rich monetarily…. We are rich but not because of money. And the house in which we live is not our own.
Hopefully, I’ve made some sort of sense here. I’m busy cleaning house and the smell of Old English furniture polish may be affecting me. We don’t like the smell of it but the owner of the house does.
Being in ministry is the most exciting place to be even when cleaning toilets.
Connie in Alaska on Tue, July 31, 2007
As a church secretary I feel I am more than adequately compensated. When I go home, my work generally stays at the church. I do get the odd call from people using me as the “human church phone directory” or calendar, but for the most part my home and work life are separate. Not so the pastor and his entire family. They are expected to be “on call” 24/7 and I am sure I don’t have to tell you guys how bent out of shape some parishioners get when gently reminded that the pastor is on vacation or taking some time off and is not available at the moment. Of course he should be paid more….he is responsible for more.
One pet peeve I do have is the tendency for a board or committe to give a staff member a raise based on a change in marital status or family size. I have heard sizeable salary increases justified on the basis of “oh, well, he just got married” or, “he should have a raise because they just had a baby”. Notice I said “he” because I don’t hear these same comments regarding female staff members who may have just gotten married or had a baby. If I worked at a grocery store or was a teacher, I would never get a raise just because I got married or had a baby. Raises should be based on job performance or a set salary increase schedule and not on changes in family status.
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