Toys R Us to Thomas Road: Either Buy a ‘Tickle-Me-Elmo” or Don’t Park Here&#
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, August 25, 2008
- Viewed 267
- (20) comments so far
Here’s the link to the story and video... I tried to embed the video, but for some reason it’s not working…
What do you think? Isn’t this a whole lot about nothing? It almost could’ve been an espisode of Seinfeld.
Todd
This seems a little absurd to me. Some people are getting up on Sunday mornings and going to the Toys R Us parking lot to tell attenders of Thomas Road Baptist Church not to park in the toy stores parking lot? Why? Because it's effecting the stores business? No... because Liberty University didn't allow people to park in their lots during an adjacent Obama rally earlier this year. And... what up with church people parking in a business's lot? That's not great either. Anyway... it must've been a slow news day... cause the TV cameras were there:
Comments
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nathan on Mon, August 25, 2008
Interesting that Liberty University couldn’t give away free parking because of separation of church and state laws, but I’m quite certain the protesters would insist on separation of church and state, unless it affects them, like parking in the Plaza for an Obama rally.
Peter Hamm on Mon, August 25, 2008
It would be nice to NOT have people park in a business lot to go to church, but it’s also possible that many of us are very unfinished as we come to God’s house, and some aren’t even part of the family yet, so that’s tough.
I think a mountain is being made out of a molehill.
Pat on Mon, August 25, 2008
Churches have to be good neighbors. Being Christians doesn’t give us the right to take over someone’s property without their permission. I know of churches that have agreements with neighboring businesses that their lots can be used on Sundays for overflow parking. But this does seem to have been blown out of proportion and certainly didn’t require the intervention of the media. I also question Liberty saying letting attenders of a political rally park on their lot as a violation of their tax exempt status (is this really true) particularly if it was not paid parking.
layne on Mon, August 25, 2008
So, a bunch of people got up on a sunday morning, went to a parking lot which did not belong to them and told a bunch of other people that they could not park in this lot. Interesting
dolphin on Mon, August 25, 2008
Not exactly. It seems that Toys R Us put flyers on the church-goers cars asking them not to park there. TRBC (which is a very large powerful church in this area) threatened a boycott, and Toys R Us was more or less forced to allow the parking.
And it wasn’t separation of church and state that prevented Liberty from opening their empty unused lot up to citizens attending the Obama event. It was a political decision (no body familiar with the situation seriously doubts that in anyway, even LU folks), but that’s fine because it’s their property and they can use it how they want. It’d just be nice if they respected another private property owners right to do the same.
Todd Rhoades on Mon, August 25, 2008
Wow… none of that was in the news story; and Jonathan Falwell said this was the first he had heard of it.
Are you sure you have your facts straight? Doesn’t sound like something you’d want to push a boycott over… that just doesn’t make sense.
Todd
dolphin on Mon, August 25, 2008
Jonathan Falwell wasn’t pastor over there at the time; his dad was, but I would be shocked if this was truly the first time he’d heard of their being problems (In the interest of full disclosure, when a Falwell says one thing, experience leads me to be inclined to believe the opposite absent further evidence, however Toys R Us employees field complaints about the parking situation every Sun and Wed, so for the news to have never filtered up to Falwell is unlikely).
I did speak hastily however when I said TRBC threatened a boycott. It would be more accurate to say that a large number of TRBC members threatened a boycott. I do not know if the threat was officially sanctioned by TRBC.
Ariel on Mon, August 25, 2008
While not commenting on the TRBC controversy - Todd are you wondering “what’s up with church people parking in a business’ lot” only when it comes to the TRBC situation, or in general?
Our church is landlocked but steadily growing, so we encourage our members to park across the street from the church in shopping center parking lots because we need the space in our parking lot for guests, disabled, and the elderly.
However, we have written agreements with the landlords to use those spaces on Sunday morning.
Chris Rhodes on Tue, August 26, 2008
A couple points of clarity from a Liberty Alum
1.The Obama rally in question was held August 21, 2008, over a year after Dr Falwell was in heaven with the Lord and Savior whom he served.
2.Since Dr. Falwell’s passing Jonathon has served as Sr. Pastor of Thomas Road Baptist Church and Jerry Falwell Jr has served as Chancellor of LU (both doing an outstanding job.
3.Neither brother reports to the other as both the church and the school are independent entities
4.It was Jerry jr who blocked the parking on the other side of town.
5.If you think that Jerry Jr. was being political just imagine for a moment what Jerry Sr. I amazed there wasn’t a conservative rally being held at the same time.
6.As the article states Toys-r-Us was not the ones asking people to leave, but rather trying to work out an arraignment with Jonathon.
7. (Todd, if this is out of line delete this part or at least forgive me) Dolphin, If you are going to attack the Falwells and claim that they are trying to bully others (the alleged boycott) than at least have the honesty to identify that you are (as you state on your blog http://www.dolphinsdock.com) “a fairly liberal, gay, male”
dolphin on Tue, August 26, 2008
Chris,
I’ve made no attempts to hide anything about myself (or be dishonest in anyway shape or form), though I don’t feel I need to give an in depth auto-biography before posting a comment, I did provide the link to my blog, as well as explicitly noting that I’m not a particularly big Falwell fan (in my comment on Monday, August 25, 2008 at 2:09 PM). Before you accuse me of dishonesty, you may want to first remove the plank from your eye. Perhaps doing so would help you read what I’ve written a bit better, no?
I’ve made no attacks hear on the Falwells. While I think certain members of the family are clearly worthy of attacks, this post wasn’t specifically about the Falwells, and my comments did not specifically address them.
As to your “points” none of this explicitly has to do with the Obama event. I for one think it was fine for LU to prohibit people from parking in the Plaza parking lot to attend an event that LU was politically opposed to. It’s their property and they can do as they please with it. While that was the impetus of the most recent flare up with the Toy R Us (and the Dollar Tree) parking situation, it’s not actually directly related to it.
The article mentions that Toys R Us is currently discussing an arrangement to TRBC. Good for them, it’s their property and they can do what they want with it (just as I said LU can do what they want with theirs). That doesn’t change the fact that Toys R Us did at one time request that TRBC attendees not park in their parking lot (they left flyers on the cars and posted signs), and were threatened by TRBC members (though, as i noted in a previous comment, I’m not sure the church administration itself was involved).
Per your linked site, your church is in OH. Tell me, just how often to you visit Lynchburg to presume you no more about a hyper-local issue than does a resident of the city? I can only assume you must be down here at least two or three times a week to assume you know even half as much about this situation as I do.
Lastly, for the record, I feel I’ve been fair in my assessment of the situation. If you think that something I’ve said has been unfair, it’d be more appropriate to address that issue. I don’t see political leanings, sexual orientation, and gender are relevant to this discussion, so I’d question why you bring those things up (unless to discredit any argument that TRBC memebrs are doing something immoral by attempting to stir bigotry against anyone who would dare suggest that all mankind are sinners).
Chris Rhodes on Tue, August 26, 2008
Actually, Dolphin you would be surprised how often I am able to make a trip to Lynchburg (after all it is a great city and home to the World’s Most Exciting University). Plus, while I know that it may be difficult to envision this, I do have a friend or two that still reside in Lynchburg.
As to your attacks on Dr. Falwell, Jonathon, and Jerry Jr. allow me to refresh your memory from one of your posts “when a Falwell says one thing, experience leads me to be inclined to believe the opposite absent further evidence.” What you have done is to accuse these men (perhaps even the entire Falwell family) of being dishonest. I have had many dealings with the Falwell’s both in VA and in OH and one thing that I can always say about them is that they are men of integrity. I don’t appreciate when they are attacked.
As to the mention of the fact of your political leanings and your choice of lifestyle, I mention them because you attempt to present yourself as an objective third party, when neither you nor I are objective third parties. It is neither bigoted nor hateful to point out that you have chosen things that are diametrically opposite to what Liberty University, Thomas Road Baptist Church, The Falwells stand for and therefore ought to be taken with a grain of salt, just as I identified that as a Liberty Alum I will be biased towards them.
As to whether or not all of mankind are sinners, I assure you, you will not find one argument against that coming from me. I know that if it were not for the grace of God, I have no hope. I know that your sin is no greater than my sin and that Christ loves you and desires to forgive you of your sin and to save you. Dolphin, Christ loves you and gave Himself as a substitute in your place so that you can be forgiven and freed from your sin.
dolphin on Tue, August 26, 2008
Chris,
Since you visit Lynchburg so frequently you must have already been aware of Toys R Us’s flyering of cars in their lot. Glad we’re on the same page. It’s a fact that comes straight from the mouths ot the TRBC members who’s cars were flyered, though it happened a couple of years ago shortly after TRBC moved to the Candler’s Mountain location.
As for your assertion that I was “attempt[ing] to present [my]self as an objective third party,” I’d be curious as to where you got that idea. I said “In the interest of full disclosure, when a Falwell says one thing, experience leads me to be inclined to believe the opposite absent further evidence.” What part of that exactly sounds like someone trying to present themselves as an objective third party? I’d be quite interested in your thoughts on the matter because you have me quite intrigued.
My statement was not meant as an attack on the Falwells, just an observation of experience (hence why I specifically indicated as much in my statement). Various public record incidents of tax fraud, video-taped contradicting statements, proven lies, an overnight change of heart on segregation, etc. are all part of the experience that leads me to doubt Falwell’s honesty.
And yes it’s true that the Falwells hate me because of the way God created me (in fact prior to his death Falwell had made several video-taped statements indicating that people created as I was should be put to death), and disagree with me on a number of political issues. You state that means everything I say should be taken with a grain of salt. Why? Does Jerry Falwell’s professed hatred for me mean that it’s somehow moral for Falwell’s followers to violate personal property rights? I’m still having trouble understanding how my political views, my genetically determined sexual orientation, and my gender relate to the facts of this particular issue. Unless you can more adequately explain how such things interrelate to parking cars on private property, I’m inclined to believe that you mentioning them was nothing more than a poorly thought-out, immoral, and inherently un-Christian attempt at character assassination since you disliked that I was exposing the facts of this incident yet were unable to dispute them.
Let’s lay out the facts:
> Toys R Us owns their parking lot.
> At least at one time, they indicated that they preferred not to have TRBC members park there during store hours unless they intended to patron the store.
> TRBC members continued to park there anyways.
> It’s reasonable to question the morality, and legality, of using another’s personal property without permission and in fact in the face of prohibition.
If you’d care to discuss the facts of the incident, please do so. If you’d prefer to go off-topic in an attempt to discredit me, I’d prefer if you simply sent me an email correspondence, so that I might share my faith with you and teach you how you too can be forgiven for being the type of individual that you are.
Peter Hamm on Tue, August 26, 2008
Dolphin,
There is little doubt that you and I would disagree on many things, but much of the concern you bring up with the Falwell stuff is indeed to be concerned about.
Rest assured, I might not agree with you on a lot of things, but I, for one, am a relatively conservative Christian who does NOT hate you in the slightest bit (there are many of us!), and I’m really glad you’re here to offer your perspective!
cheers!
Pat on Tue, August 26, 2008
The same goes for me, Dolphin. Thanks Peter!
dolphin on Tue, August 26, 2008
Thanks Peter and Pat,
Believe me, one or two of my heroes in life are conservative Christians who I disagree with on a myriad of subjects. I well recognize the differences between disagreement (which can peacefully coexist with love!) and hatred and have seen both demonstrated by folks of all faith and political leanings. I think that the vast majority of us (of all of us), fall in the former camp versus the latter, I just wish the latter wasn’t the more vocal part of the spectrum.
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