Two Discernment Websites Cease Publication on the Web
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Sun, July 27, 2008
- Viewed 1236
- (100) comments so far
My read on this one?
Well… I think that Abanes should have probably tried to work with Ken to get the post taken down. I have no doubt that Ken would NOT have taken it down, but it would have been the right first step, rather than going directly to Ken’s web host. And once Ken got the notice from his web host, I think he should have tried to make the compromise happen.
But instead, it’s a big mess… one that’s causing more than a bit of insanity. Ken is crying ‘martyr’ and some of the watchdoggie sites are saying that this ‘first amendment issue’ will cause us all to eventually lose our right to criticize anyone online.
Bottom line: Ken’s article had been on his site since 2005. I really doubt that it was going to do Richard any harm. Plus, Ken’s readers aren’t going to buy Richard’s books, regardless (sorry, Richard!)
You can catch more on this at Richard Abane’s website; or an update over at Lighthouse Trails or Slice of Laodicea. I won’t link to them here, but you can find them easy enough if you’re that interested.
This SO MUCH takes away from everyone who is involved’s effectiveness. I hate that.
Your thoughts?
As many of you know, I've picked a few fights every now and then when I feel that some of the 'discerning ministry' have crossed the line. Well, it seems that two of my favorite watchdoggie websites are down, at least for now.
The first one is rather sad... and I would ask you to pray for Jim Bulbitz. Jim publishes OldTruth.com, and is having some serious health issues. In fact, he needs to have a liver transplant. He shares the news at OldTruth. His health issues will cause him to stop new posts, at least for then next few months. You know, I have disagreed with many of the things (probably most) that Jim has written over the years; and we've gone head to head on more than one occasion. But I can always say this: Jim was always open to dialouge, and always has treated me as a brother rather than a heretic. I appreciate that; and pray for you, Jim, that God will heal you completely.
The second website to go down happened this weekend. This was Ken Silva's "Apprising Ministries" website. Ken, on the other hand, is one of the more hard-nosed, confrontive bloggers I've run across on the net. Here's the short version of this one: Ken wrote a scathing piece on author Richard Abane in 2005 that Abane thought was slanderous. So, Richard contacted Ken's ISP and asked them to remove it from their servers. Ken's ISP looked at the article, and told Ken he'd have to remove that one post, or else they would take his site down complete. Ken, ever the martyr, decided to leave it up; and thus, lost his whole site (although I'm sure they're working frantically to get it back up on another host)...
Comments
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Richard Abanes on Tue, July 29, 2008
Brian: I just read all the stuff at your blog regarding your conversation with Chris Rosebrough, and I find your response (and apologies) very Christ-honoring.
RA: TY. I was simply the right, godly, and biblical thing to do.
I can only wonder why Ken Silva, a “Pastor,” didn’t respond in a similar fashion, and why as a result of his response, his followers and other ODMs are continuing to spin out of control in some very ungodly directions. It’s so tragic to me.
RAbanes
Peter Hamm on Tue, July 29, 2008
Ken Silva,
Until now, I’ve believed that you were a well-intentioned individual, and although often featuring quotes out of context and mis-quotes on your site, still someone who believed passionately and wanted what was best for the body of Christ. This in spite of my disagreements with your methods and with your conclusions.
I am now becoming convinced that you may rather be a malicious, divisive, self-serving and perhaps deeply deluded individual. Question… just one for me… Did you in fact take your own site down and then re-launch it with another ISP as has been reported? If that is true, you have purveyed lies and untruths, and have allowed (or possibly encouraged) others to do so as well.
This is, if true, unconscionable. But it seems that you may be in the process of damaging your own credibility beyond repair anyway.
Please consider restating, possibly apologizing, and toning down your rhetoric some.
Paula on Tue, July 29, 2008
Ken did the right thing in not backing down on this frivolous complaint. Give Abanes an inch and he’ll take a mile. Bob DeWaay found that out when Abanes ran with one conciliatory sounding line Bob said and made it sound like Bob was coming over to Abanes’ point of view. It just shows how completely out of touch with reality and full of himself Abanes is.
Don’t like my assessment of Abanes? Sue me.
Richard Abanes on Tue, July 29, 2008
Paula: “Don’t like my assessment of Abanes? Sue me.”
RA: For all to see, more proof of what is becoming painfully obvious.
RAbanes
Chris L on Tue, July 29, 2008
FYI - After multiple contacts w/ iPower (Ken’s old hosting service), they still deny deleting Ken’s site, and also point out (contrary to his “letter” posted) that no “Jennifer N.” works for their legal department.
http://christianresearchnetwork.info/2008/07/28/ipower-and-ken-silva/
Richard Abanes on Tue, July 29, 2008
Okay, okay, okay WAIT WAIT WAIT. STOP!!!!
As much as Ken Silva bugs me and has hurt me on so many levels, I will NOT stand by and let more misinformation be spread.
I have an email I received from IPOWER that is indeed from a “Jennifer N.” confirming to me that IPOWER asked Ken to remove the offending article or have his website taken down.
Ken DID NOT fake that email. What he did do, however, was use it to his advantage by allowing his website to come down (which never really needed to happen at all), then just popping it back up again somewhere else—and now, with the article intact, although he certainly knows now how I feel about it.
This email, by the way, stated that they DO NOT simply remove a website when a third party complains. Jennifer stated in her email to me that they INVESTIGATE promptly and take APPROPRIATE ACTION!!!!!
This means that all I really did was call attention to what I though was a clear violation of IPOWER’S TOS agreement. They did INVESTIGATE PROMPTLY and given what they found took APPROPRIATE ACTION.
No one is bothering to acknowledge that what this means is that Ken actually HAD VIOLATED their TOS agreement!!! KEN!! Are you out there? Anyone want to write an article about how we should be abiding by our TOS agreements that we strike our hand to???
R. Abanes
chris on Tue, July 29, 2008
For clarification, as the one who contacted IPOWER, they are a rather large company and are unable to track down individual employees. When asked to be transferred to Jennifer N. they needed to check on their internal server to see if she was logged in. Because she was not logged in they were unable to tell me if in fact a Jennifer N. was an actually employee.
I have spoken with two people from the legal dept. to verify that the letter was an actual letter. It is.
My apologies for my comment at CRN.info being unclear.
Peter Hamm on Tue, July 29, 2008
Chris,
Thanks for the explanation and clarification.
Richard,
Thanks for taking the high road.
Ken,
You should still do some explaining, please…
Richard Abanes on Tue, July 29, 2008
New RUMORS page now up that has 4 responses covering the most frequently made false statements about this sad saga -
http://abanes.com/rumorcontrol.html
R. Abanes.
P.S. Hmmm, no answers from Ken yet. No surprise there.
Ken Silva on Tue, July 29, 2008
RA: “P.S. Hmmm, no answers from Ken yet. No surprise there.”
You’ll find I’m not an easy one to bait. This is not the forum.
Richard Abanes on Tue, July 29, 2008
KEN: You’ll find I’m not an easy one to bait. This is not the forum.
RA: Did you learn to answer in that way from your “mentor” Walter Martin? After all, in the very article about which we are speaking, you state: “As one of my mentors, Dr. Walter Martin, used to put it. . . .”
Tell us Ken, do tell us a little more about your mentoring under Walter Martin. How did you meet him? When did he take you under his wing? What were some of the things you learned from him as you worked/trained under him in the field of apologetics?
Certainly you must have all kinds of rich stories tell us about you and your mentor. Unless, of course, you were not truly mentored by him at all, but instead, are merely referring to a few dozen or so scratchy tapes from 30-40 years ago that you and about a million other people have listened to.
But that would not have made him your mentor! Whether or not Walter was indeed your mentor would be very easy to “discern” by even a cursory look at what the word MENTOR means:
“A wise and trusted counselor or teacher.”
“An individual who provides independent support and advice to enable the candidate to realize their full potential and help establish their career.”
“The critical role and responsibility assumed by an experienced and wise educator who agrees to help, build a relationship with, and facilitate the professional growth of one or more proteges. Mentors are to be models of effective teaching and of a very visible desire to continue to grow professionally, every day, and throughout the career.”
“A trusted counsellor or guide.”
“Person who acts as an adviser to a learner, especially used in work-place learning environments. The activity is called mentoring.”
So, tell us Ken, based on your statement, “As one of my mentors, Dr. Walter Martin, used to put it, tell us a little bit about what must have been an incredible interaction wherein you learned so much about apologetics/discernment.
Here is something else you can discuss. Is this the right forum for explaining that?
RAbanes
Peter Hamm on Tue, July 29, 2008
Ken,
Not the forum? Look over the postings over the past few months here. Todd is more than generous in letting anyone speak their peace. Even this very topic is great evidence of this.
What is the proper forum? I can’t actually imagine a better forum than this one.
I’m sorry, Ken, this seems to me to be a really huge cop-out on your part. I really need to know why you are blaming someone else for your own inability or unwillingness to abide by your ISP’s terms of service, and then your justification for blaming others and crying persecution for the inevitable results of your own stubbornness in this matter. Posting a headline like “RICHARD ABANES TO SUE APPRISING MINISTRIES OVER DEFAMATION-LIBEL?” is needlessly inflammatory in the view of (it seems) quite a few of your fellow believers. Perhaps you have a good reason why it’s not. If so, please share.
We have the opportunity for great progress here.
Brian L. on Tue, July 29, 2008
I went to RA’s “rumors” page and was appalled at how other Christians described RW (“Slick Rick”) and RA (“bulldog” among others”).
I’d sure love to see what Scriptural support any of these people have to use such language against RA and RW.
On the other hand, I can think of a bunch of references about “letting your conversation be gracious,” let no unwholesome word come out of your mouth [keyboard].”
Brian
Daniel Chew on Wed, July 30, 2008
Let me get this straight:
Threaten a believer with a lawsuit for libel = violation of 1 Cor. 6
Threaten a company with a lawsuit to ‘ask’ them to remove a libelous post written by a believer = non-violation of 1 Cor. 6
?
So maybe using the same logic:
Killing a person in cold blood = Commiting the sin of murder
‘Asking’ a person to help you kill a person in cold blood = Not committing the sin of murder
?
Wow.
Daniel Chew on Wed, July 30, 2008
Peter Hamm:
“Did you in fact take your own site down and then re-launch it with another ISP as has been reported? “
I think Pastor Ken can speak for himself, and he should do so too, but I think that we shouldn’t be too quick to judge people, especially when the “information” is coming from the people over at CR.(mis)info, whom I have realized consistently misrepresent people and attack them for being “modernists” all the while having no idea what Modernism actually is.
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