When Push Comes To Shove… Church Antagonist Blogger is Physically Attacked?
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Wed, May 23, 2007
- Viewed 253
- (33) comments so far
(and don’t get me wrong here; I’m not advocating physical violence)… did this antagonist blogger have it coming?
Have you ever had someone in your church constantly press your buttons to the point that you just wanted to haul off and knuckle-punch them?
From what I’ve seen of some of these anti-leadership blogs, it would be hard to to want to punch someone. I mean, how do you handle people who attend your church who publically denounce the leadership of your church. I even saw a post earlier this week from a Bellevue Staff member (writing on condition of anonymity) telling how he was working from the inside to divert the senior leadership to the ‘right path’.
When push comes to shove, should you ever shove? 
Love to hear your input…
Todd
We've talked in the past here at MMI about how blogs are now being used in several churches to actively attack the leadership of local churches, demanding change. So has been the case with several blogs actively calling for changes in leadership at Bellevue Baptist Church. Now comes the report that a yet un-named "upstanding, long-time member" of the church has physically attacked on of the antagonist bloggers. Charges have been filed. So... this just takes it to the next level. And my question to you is...
Comments
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Randy Ehle on Wed, May 23, 2007
Having watched the first half of “Gandhi” last night (and having a bit of the Bible) I’d be hard-pressed to suggest that physical violence is ever justified…certainly in a church context. Matthew 18 would seem to apply in this situation, and I would hope that the church has documented how it will implement scriptural steps of discipline. Unfortunately, my experience has been that people disgruntled with the leadership of a church are not likely to submit to discipline meted out by that same leadership, regardless of whether they agreed to that very process on becoming a member.
shane on Wed, May 23, 2007
They will know they are Christian’s by our…..
you cannot make this stuff up!
I’ll be the first and maybe only to say….yes, some people got it coming. I know this does not line up with Scripture, but neither does gossip. I only know of what is happening at BBC through blogs. I would have to say alot of what I have read is true, and other has been gossip. so the question to me is, who is right and who is wrong, the puncher or gossiper? I am the lead pastor at our church and I have 4 kids-2 boys and 2 girls. My boys being almost Teens (Lord help me), I have taught them this….keep your mouth shut, or someone might shut it for you!
I was once part of a church (on staff), whose senior leadership was caught with their hand in the “cookie jar”. Myself, 2 other pastors, church administrator, and some of the elders tried for 6 months to bring correction (behind the scenes) to senior leadership. Eventually senior leadership had labeled us all as having “Jezebel Spirits”, angendas etc…and one by one we were forced out. I had tenured my resignation, which was accepted, then one morning came into my office to find a note taped to my door saying to pack up and be out by the end of the day. The SP never had the integrity to sit down face to face with me and tell me to go (which I would have!), maybe because he knew what he was doing was wrong, and I might have punched him in the face!! (I’m smiling here so please do not reply with some spiritual religious answer to me!)
anyways….here is the reality, whether someone is a christian or not….keep pushing them and you might end up on the recieving end of 5 knuckles….my advice to those who do not like BBC or leadership…......LEAVE! Go find a pastor and church of integrity and serve there. You want to punish leadership who won’t listen….then take your families, your gifts, your finances and go somewhere else and spend your energy advancing the Kingdom verses blogging against (wasting your time) people who don’t care!
My 2 cents!
eric wright on Thu, May 24, 2007
Biblically speaking violence is wrong.
But if we are honest, there are plenty of people who push us so far that we want to hit them. In this case, both sides are passionate about themselves being right; no one likes to be told they are subverting the Kingdom.
I think the problem is much deeper. When these things happen in a church, I tend to believe that they have a lack of vision about what the church should be. Or, they have a church structure that rejects accountability on all sides.
The whole situation is sad, and, unfortunately, typical. Our entire culture has the mentality of “You can’t tell me what to do!” and when that shows up in the church members and leadership it is deadly to the church. It also makes a mockery of God’s Kingdom.
Peter Hamm on Thu, May 24, 2007
Whether or not the person was right in the things he blogged about (the antagonist) it was probably NOT the correct way to handle thiings. I, as a church member, do not have ANY scriptural mandate to launch a campaign against the leaders in my church. If I go to them and discuss my issues and they do not respond… then I can respond by leaving if what is being done is unscriptural.
So…
...he had it comin’… I’m not saying it was RIGHT of the person who punched him, but we reap what we sow in life.
But I don’t shove. I’m such a wuss anybody who wants to could clean up the floor with my face. You kiddin? I’m a wimp with a capital W!
Jan on Thu, May 24, 2007
I’ve had a few, where the only thing I could do was get up and walk or punch out their lights.
I haven’t done any punching yet, but did they deserve it? Yeah I think they probably did!
But then as grandma always said “Two wrongs don’t make a right”
djp on Thu, May 24, 2007
maybe they need to do a Nehemiah - (13:25) “call down curses, struck some of them, and plucked out their hair” - metaphorically speaking of course! http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/wink.gif
Leonard on Thu, May 24, 2007
When someone acts like a bible donkey we open a six pack of Balaam’s Bible donkey beat down.
21And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab.
22And God’s anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.
23And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way.
24But the angel of the LORD stood in a path of the vineyards, a wall being on this side, and a wall on that side.
25And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she thrust herself unto the wall, and crushed Balaam’s foot against the wall: and he smote her again.
26And the angel of the LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left.
27And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam’s anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff.
28And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
29And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee.
30And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? and he said, Nay.
31Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.
32And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me:
33And the ass saw me, and turned from me these three times: unless she had turned from me, surely now also I had slain thee, and saved her alive. Numbers 22:21-33KJV
DanielR (a different Daniel) on Fri, May 25, 2007
Never, ever resort to punching someone. You can really hurt your hand doing that.
I would have to agree with Leonard, smite the ass with thy staff. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/wink.gif I keep a special staff with me just for that purpose. ;@
myPond on Sun, May 27, 2007
The Bible provides for a way to handle church conflict and those who continually sew discord. They are visited, and if they don’t stop, they are visited again by some more people, and if they still don’t stop, they are asked to leave the church.
Pity it isn’t utilized more. Yet in most churches we are mostly asked “not to stoop to their level.” I say baloney. By not exercising the provision that is ours, we are held hostage by a handful of the loud and the cranky. They need to be confronted and there’s a biblical way to do that. Obviously Jesus knew there would be conflict so He gave us instruction on how to handle it.
Are we disobedient when we DON’T follow Matthew 18?
To answer the original question, when push comes to shove, I’ve never shoved. But I’ve sure wanted to.
Danny on Tue, May 29, 2007
What a waste of time and energy. The devils wins when he can devert the attention of the church to fighting amongst itself. All the attention is drawn to the problems and keeps the church from doing what it is suppose to be doing, which is to draw the lost to Christ. I have to wonder how many hours have been wasted by all parties involved. I doubt God would be pleased, and that is the most important aspect of all of this.
One thing I have learned, is the church isn’t perfect, I don’t think it was ever meant to be perfect, but Christ is the perfect one, and as long as we keep out eyes on Him, nothing else matters. When we take our eyes off of him is when all of this junk happens.
Phil DiLernia on Tue, May 29, 2007
When people of a church believe there is something “sinful” going on in the church they should address it with the leadership and try to challenge and in fact ENCOURAGE their leaders to make the necessary changes.
But this “sinful” behavior has somehow been confused with disagreements over dress, music, administrative styles, personality, and the list goes on and on.
On these occasions, which can be easily determined by first asking what the Biblical issues are and see what the response is, the people of the congregation should accept what it is the leaders have determined is best. Is that not the essence of Romans 13:1-3? If people don’t accept the leadership that God has placed to be in authority then they are in fact rejecting God. That’s scripture speaking.
Camey on Tue, May 29, 2007
Hey Phil DiLernia,
Completely off-topic…. Congrats to you and your wife on the BIG anniversary you celebrated!
Oh and hey….. Just WHO decided THAT song should you be your church’s website anyways? http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/wink.gif
Okay.. back to the topic at hand.
Phil DiLernia on Tue, May 29, 2007
Hi Camey!
I tried to answer your last email but my old email is down. You cann email me at [removed]
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[removed] from now on. Someone messed around with my account.
We had a great church party (pictures on the website in photo albums) with about 150 people coming on a Friday before Memorial Day weekend! Cool. Thank God it was a holiday Friday otherwise another 50-75 would have showed up and cost me more money!!!!! http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif :o)
How are you guys doing?
Phil DiLernia on Tue, May 29, 2007
BTW, what’s wrong with that song??
Camey on Tue, May 29, 2007
Phil,
Nothing is wrong with the song… That was my lame attempt at humor given what you had posted in regards to the article. Has it been THAT long?? (laugh, Phil. laugh)
Saw the pics… And yes, you should be thankful more peeps didn’t show up. Talk about a church body being supportive. That is always welcomed news! Even moreso… a couple’s marriage lasting that many years. Cause for a celebration indeed.
I’ll update you about our crazy lives via email.
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