“Why Don’t We Love the Homosexual and Hate our Sin?”
- Posted on June 23, 2008
- Viewed 683 times
- (47) comments
Only 22 percent of SBC pastors believe Southern Baptists are sufficiently ministering to persons with same-sex attractions, indicating that most desire to reach out.
“I think the Christian faith has not done as good a job as we ought to of reacting redemptively toward people who are caught in the web of the homosexual lifestyle,” said Dr. Richard Land, president of The Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, during an informal dialogue at the annual meeting. “These people are not beyond the grace of God and they need the grace of God. We need to reach out to them.”
Here’s the link to the full article.
What do you think? I rather like the way he phrased the question…
According to an article in The Christian Post, Christians often say "love the sinner, hate the sin" when expressing their stance on homosexuality. But the new leader of the Southern Baptist Convention, Dr. Johnny Hunt, wants to offer something different: "Why don't we love the homosexual and hate OUR sin?"
When the public views Southern Baptists and how they deal with the issue of homosexuality, Hunt hopes people will see how they love the homosexual.
"There seemed to be ... less of what we're fighting against and more of what we all stand for," said Sam Rainer, a pastor and president of Rainer Research, in his latest blog post, as he reflected on last week's annual meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention.
Comments
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Bruce Gerencser on Tue, June 24, 2008
Fishon.
How about what Jesus said?
Your illustrations I am sure had lives that matched their words.
How can you speak for most gays? Or even some gays?
I’ve had my share of good conversations with gay people. They are not monsters.
Oh I have had gays spit at me but I deserved it. In a former life I used to go once a month to the Short North in Columbus Ohio. They had what was called the Gallery Hop. The gay community was out in force at this event. I would go and preach at them about their sodomy. I would stand on a street corner, lift up my trusty KJV and preach. OF course they reacted. Of course they cursed, spit, exposed themselves ,etc.
I thought I was be persecuted for righteousness sake. I now know I was being persecuted for being a homophobic, hateful idiot.
So go preach to the gays and show them how much you DON’T love them. Why not try the same tact at your local Baptist Church? You know the one where the fornicators and adulterers gather on Sunday?
Why just single out gays? OF course you KNOW the answer to that….....
Bruce
Leonard on Tue, June 24, 2008
Fishon,
forgive me if this comes across wrong but you seem a bit defensive. I apologize for leading you to believe that I put words in your mouth. I was actually referring to both the Fred Phelps references and the comment you made 2 times about a gay pride parade. I am sure protesting was the wrong word. However you did not really deal with what I said, you simply pointed out my misplacement of words.
There are so many poeple right now who are trapped in a lifestyle of homosexuality who would never parade themselves and have not even found themselves able to come out. We could find ways to minister to them. There are so many teens experimenting with homosexuality right now, we could minister to them.
The point of the article was we do not HATE OUR SIN. We are still to love our enemies, we can show kindness in the face of hate. We can use common sense in entering discussions. We can season our words with salt. We can offer grace to meet real needs. We can quit being afraid or repulsed. We can show love through gentleness.
We can discuss (I have done it) why God wrote what he wrote. There are a ton of options for us in ministering to homosexuals. Peter nor myself suggest withholding the truth. However I think Dr. hunt is right. We should start ith HATING OUR OWN SIN.
fishon on Tue, June 24, 2008
Bruce,
YOU: Why just single out gays? OF course you KNOW the answer to that….....
——-Bruce, I thought that was the topic of discussion???? You might check the title of Todd’s original article. If you want to talk about another subject, fine, but this was the one that was started.
YOU: So go preach to the gays and show them how much you DON’T love them.
———I preach to gays, adulterers, liars, gossipers, fornicators, and even a pedophile, etc. I don’t have to go to the local Baptist church. They are in my/God’s congregation I pastor.
You may have been a screamer in the past, but that doesn’t mean all of us who call sin sin are screamers.
By the way, would you have had any last words for Steven before they started tossing the rocks. Maybe you might have said, “Steven, it’s your fault, you shouldn’t have called those sinners ‘stiff-necked.’”
fishon
Bruce Gerencser on Tue, June 24, 2008
Fishon
You and I are two ships passing in the night.
Thank you for the discussion.
Bruce
fishon on Tue, June 24, 2008
Leonard,
Yes, a little defensive. People putting words in others mouth don’t help the process of debate. Oh, I plead guilty to doing it myself, but try hard not to.
You are right about ministering to them. And I would and have. I haven’t had to deal with teens as of yet, however. I have had to deal with teens and sex, and would deal with a teen in a gay situation much the same way. The church I pastor doors are open to anyone.
YOU: Peter nor myself suggest withholding the truth. However I think Dr. hunt is right. We should start with HATING OUR OWN SIN.
———-Yes, I agree, we should do that.
However, I believe that the vast majority of pastors who preach against practicing homosexuality do that. I believe a few Phelp’s paint most of use as there underlings in the eyes of the gays. And the militant gays are convincing many Christians that we are the bad guys—if we even think their practice is sin. They are doing a good job of dividing and conquering us—over a few bad apples.
fishon
jud on Tue, June 24, 2008
It is amazing to me how people in the church will sacrifice other people in the church for the credit / favor of a demographic that has quickly become the poster child of unjustified tolerance.
It’s simple really, as fishon has stated just because you preach against sin does not mean you are screaming… though it will sound that way to convicted souls.
If nothing else offer us fundamentalists a little bit of the kindness you offer the World.
Leonard on Tue, June 24, 2008
jud, I am not really sure what your point is here. Who is being sacrificed and who is doing the sacrificing and whose favor is being sought?
did you miss the point of the post? it was noy how we approach the homosexual but rather how we approach our own sinfulness.
the fact we gloss that over that point might reveal we have no sin but I doubt it.
Peter Hamm on Wed, June 25, 2008
fishon writes [However, I believe that the vast majority of pastors who preach against practicing homosexuality do that (hate their own sin)] I respectfully disagree, based on my own limited experience.
Jud writes [It is amazing to me how people in the church will sacrifice other people in the church for the credit / favor of a demographic that has quickly become the poster child of unjustified tolerance.] It is amazing to me how many people in the church (I’m not necessarily saying this is you) have put a certain sin (homosexual behavior) that is mentioned only in passing by Paul and never once directly by Christ and put it at the top of a list of the worst sins… when it seems that greed and religious pride are much more serious affairs to both of them.
The problem I have is that far too many start with condemning this certain sin. I take as my model for encountering someone with sexual sin obvious in their life Jesus in chapter 4 of John. He does not START with condemnation of sin in that exchange (although after starting the exchange he does not hide what is right and wrong), but rather starts with the promise of hope.
I start with the promise of hope.
jud on Wed, June 25, 2008
Where in either mine or fishon’s post did we mention that homosexuality was any worse than any other sin? Where did we talk as if we are sinless. For that matter when and where does the Church as a whole do either of these.
The order of this particular debate always seems to go something like this.
1) I know it;s becoming more and more acceptable in our culture to live the gay lifestyle but God’s Word calls it sin.
2) Fred Phelps ! Fred Phelps ! Fred Fhelps !!!!! You are saying God hates gay people, You bigot !!! Like you don’t have any sin in your life! This is why nobody likes Christians anymore!
3) Complete descension into chaos ... as this thread indicates
I think it’s a popular assumption that anyone who now calls homosexuality a sin is some kind of unloving hate monger. Kind of leverages the argument doesn’t it? I’m not claiming moral superiority and never did but it kind of swings the balance in the favor of your side of the debate if you can paint me or other fundamentalists this way doesn’t it?
Peter Hamm on Wed, June 25, 2008
Jud,
Did ya even read my whole post, including what I put in parentheses? I think maybe not.
Ben on Wed, June 25, 2008
We should love everyone equally. That catch phrase is not Biblical and should be struck down as jargon. If a person is living in sin do you stil love them? Of course you do. But where this guy is going is beyond me. What happens if a weak person hangs around with a group of sinners. He becomes like them. This gay thing is against everything that God teaches but I still love my brothers and pray for them.
Leonard on Wed, June 25, 2008
Jud,
From the original post Todd posted the instruction was for us to hate OUR own sin and love the homosexual. The article then said lets give a loving and biblical response that homosexuality is sin.
From your first point till now you still have not interacted with what Dr. Hunt actually said. Instead you launched this thread down a path it doesn’t need to be on. On your first post you missed the point Dr. hunt was making and stated a tirade about alcoholics having parades and us being nicer to them and not bending the gospel… Not the point of the post. (not what anyone here suggests either)
Then your next post misses again the point of the post… hating OUR own sin. Your third post completely misses the point of the post… Hating OUR own sin. Your fourth post just takes a shot at McLaren. Again the fifth post misses again. Your sixth amen’s fishon for missing the point. Your seventh misses again and in fact has absolutely nothing to do with the post. Number 8 post misses once again the point. Number 9 and number 10 equally miss the point.
Jud we have 41 comments from you and none of them are about the original point of the article or why Todd posted it, are you trying to hijack a thread with your agenda?
This does not even include the unbiblical things and erroneous comments you made.
jud on Wed, June 25, 2008
Leonard, Because you disagree with my viewpoint doesn’t mean I’m off topic. The fact is I do hate my own sin AND love people (friends in fact) who are living homosexual lifestyles and professing Christianity. My love for them is terribly strained and often severed when homosexuality is spoken of as a sin. It’s a terrible and painful thing to watch happen. Don’t treat me like I’m shooting darts from some ivory tower.
I’m sure in your life you have demonstrated your love for gay friends and associates and they have confirmed your obedience by repenting and turning from the gay lifestyle.
I commend you for that.
Please show me the un-Biblical comments I have made. I need to be corrected.
Leonard on Wed, June 25, 2008
it is not my disagreement with you or my agreement with you that makes you off topic but the fact you are off topic.
As for unbiblical things you said… click my name I’ll send you an email. I don’t want to be way off topic.
As for the topic. the sin of indifference is huge. The reality that few Christians do anything with hiv or aids today is indifferent. The reality is that most Christians today have little to no response to a homosexual other that that is a sin and a really bad sin is indifference. The reality that there are countess numbers of people being seduced into a life style for no other reason that a loving and clear voice is missing from their lives is indifference.
When we stand before God someday and he says, hey what did you do about that homosexuality issue and we say, we told them it was wrong and argued with other christians about it. I think he will be happy with that.
What about the kid whose dad just announced he was gay and now he is trying to figure out how to deal with that or the parent whose son just announced he was gay and is struggling to deal with that. How will this conversation help that guy. The point Dr. hunt was making is that we are woefully unprepared and we are woefully unrepentant over our own sin, possibly the sin of indifference and pride.
Jud, you came in here assuming the worst about what we think and castigating homosexuals from the first comment. That my friend is why you are off point. The fact you cannot see that is sad.
jud on Wed, June 25, 2008
Leonard,
No, put it all out right here specifically please. You made public allegations against me so make this a public rebuke, please.
1) Where did I “castigate” homosexuals (not the act, the persons)?
2) I’m indifferent towards homosexuals ? Really, Be specific.
3) Point out specifically how I personally don’t care about HIV/AIDS and associated matters.
4) For that matter, you made the statement “The reality that few Christians do anything with hiv or aids today is indifferent.”
Really? Why, because Bono says? Because poll numbers say that. It’s real easy to step out into the World and blame the Church, it will make you extremely popular with our culture.
Not that the Bride is in fact spottless but I will say than many of the problems of the Church are not necessarily what we DON"T do but a whole lot of the things we ARE DOING before we are surrendered to direction of the Holy Spirit by the Word of God.
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