It reminds me of all the stuff that Larry Norman used to say about himself. To read his take on his career, you’d think that he invented music practically. (full disclosure: I am a HUGE Larry Norman fan, I just think all the stuff he says about himself can get a little silly sometimes.)

And btw, can the Crouches PLEASE invest a little money in a new logo. That thing is HIDEOUS!

But back on point, this is a good reason not to put much credence in anything that comes out of their ministry in terms of announcements, press releases, figures, data… at the very least. (Okay, now I wanna hear what Bernie says about this… Todd is just BEGGING to have him comment, don’t you all think?)

Peter

Nice, Peter!  You know, I was just reading a trade press article about John Hagee’s new book that was released this week… I thought about blogging about it just to get Bernie going, but I decided against it.

Somehow, I doubt that Bernie will have much nice to say about Paul Crouch either.  He seems to like the head of the Asia missions outfit or something like that. 

So… what’s your take, Bernie?!

Todd

“To place as highly as Dr. Crouch has on the Church Report’s prestigious listing is a testament to God’s faithfulness to fulfill the vision he placed inside this man of God,”

From the Words of the Apostle Paul who again didn’t make the list this year:

10 Our dedication to Christ makes us look like fools, but you are so wise! We are weak, but you are so powerful! You are well thought of, but we are laughed at. 11 To this very hour we go hungry and thirsty, without enough clothes to keep us warm. We have endured many beatings, and we have no homes of our own. 12 We have worked wearily with our own hands to earn our living. We bless those who curse us. We are patient with those who abuse us. 13 We respond gently when evil things are said about us. Yet we are treated like the world’s garbage, like everybody’s trash—right up to the present moment. 14 I am not writing these things to shame you, but to warn you as my beloved children. 15 For even if you had ten thousand others to teach you about Christ, you have only one spiritual father. For I became your father in Christ Jesus when I preached the Good News to you. 16 So I ask you to follow my example and do as I do.
1 Corinthians 4:10-16 (NLT)

But Wendi, don’t you think there’s a little different getting other people to say good things about you; and saying them about yourself (or paying someone to, don’t you think?).  My view is that it makes you look pompous.  Paul Crouch said he was humbled to make the list of the most influential Christians… evidently he was so humbled that he needed to issue a press release to let us all know how humbled he actually was.

That’s my 2 cents…

Todd

Todd and Peter,

I think you have zeroed in on the rub with the Crouch PR Peter - it is under the guise of “independent” and we wouldn’t know otherwise unless Todd had told us that Susan Zahl was hired as the TBN PR firm.  The other rub is that the wonderful words were about Paul Crouch as much as TBN and their great contribution to the kingdom.

But then again . . . of what we read and hear in the media, probably much more has been “fed” to them than they’ve surfaced on their own as news or items of interest.  Is there an ethical issue with “feeding” the media with press releases? (I really don’t have an opinion . . . at the moment anyway).

I’m on the board of a local faith-based NPO.  We’ve just hired a new Executive Director and have also “hired” a PR person to help us get the word out.  We want to paint a good picture, and capitalize on the opportunity to get our organization some media attention. We’re not professionals at media relations and we felt it was prudent to get professional help.  Is that different than the way TBN capitalized on the Top 50 article?  We didn’t feel any ethical conflicts when we made the decision to pay someone to help us, but now I wonder . . .

Opinions???

Wendi

Bernie - I’m bothered by the Crouch deal too (did I make that point?). 

But did he actually lie?  Is everyone who uses a PR firm required to state “This article has been written by the firm of ---, which has been paid by the --- organization to promote them.”

I see this more as a sin of omission, one which our organization will commit with our press releases BTW.

Wendi

Wendi said:
“I see this more as a sin of omission, one which our organization will commit with our press releases BTW.”

You are implying that a sin of omission is ok.  It’s just the same as one of commission.  Actually, it’s a sin of commission in this case, as he purposely knew what he was doing.  Sin of omission is when you don’t do something you should.  Sin of commission is when you do something you shouldn’t,,, as Paul and his PR team did.  “Your sins will find you out” as Todd proved by a little research.

Some people may write a book and have other leading figures crow about it… that is fine and dandy.  But if you later find out they did it because of a financial interest, that is dishonest.  Doesn’t Paul Crouch have any legitimate peers that could crow about him? He has to pay someone to do it???

...Bernie

Wendi writes (to Bernie) [Are you sure that your judgment of the Crouch’s “sin” isn’t influenced by your general belief that they lack integrity in their ministry]

Before Bernie says this, I am not so sure you can even separate the two. One indicates the other, and both feed into each other, assuming of course, that they do lack integrity in their ministry. (which I agree with, too… but come on… they are SO entertaining!)

Bernie,

I think you make my point.  The Crouch’s hire a PR firm to create a positive image of them as “humble” and significant contributors to the kingdom - which, if you believe is untrue, makes this method unethical at best - perhaps lying.

Say Focus on the Family hires a PR firm to manage their public image (I can hardly believe they have not).  Press releases are made, similarly designed create a positive public image and as a ministry making significant kingdom contribution, even saying nice things about James Dobson (which he in all likelihood knows about in advance).  If we believe this to be a true picture of Focus on the Family and James Dobson, then no problem with the method of press releases made by people hired and paid to make them.

So it’s not the method of creating a particular image we’re finding fault with (hiring a PR firm), it’s that we don’t like it when we find incongruence between the created image and reality.  Isn’t that true?

Wendi

Okay, Bernie is not alone as one who can’t resist jumping in the mix with certain issues.  At the risk of seeming flaky, unstable or double minded for backing off the sight with a complaint about the “accuser of the brethren” spirit that was seeming to dominate conversations…only to jump back in now in response to this post…I am compelled to bite the bait! 

I find it an amazing irony how easy it is to draw a line in the sand that clearly reveals how those we choose to “inspect” and “expose” for their “public” sins concerning activities in the Kingdom of God inevitably come out of the experiential and theological camps within Christendom that we have personally rejected and invalidated with our own belief systems.

The issue that is being used in this post to spiritually castrate Paul Crouch and those who affiliate with or embrace him and his ministry, has at its core a much deeper probing and potentially profitable benefit for the Body of Christ in general, and all of us as ministers of Christ specifically, if we would use it on our own lives rather than wasting it on the public assault of those whom none of us are likely to ever get close enough in relationship with to wield any influence toward their change.

This whole discussion could very well have been initiated and effectively interacted with and never needed to enter the arena of needing a fall guy as the point of reference to fuel a passion for its purpose.

With that said, I believe the issue at the core of this discussion is one about our need to recognize when our own motivations, ambitions and needs for promotion and recognition, draw us out of our committed lives of selfless abandonment as bond-slaves to our Lord, and into the arena of self-seeking honor and glory.  The end result of that, and what Paul is being blasted for here, is hypocrisy. 
The Lord spoke about such and gave us His warning in Matthew 6 when He said:

(My own culturally equivalent translation) “When you do your Christian ministries, do not announce it by having marketing geniuses and media giants praise your godly activities (blowing your horn).  Do not be like those who make a show of their holiness. They announce what they do in the churches, on the television and the billboards. They do this in the name of ministry when the truth is it is because they want to be honored by others. What I’m about to tell you is true. They have already received their complete reward.”

Our Lord is warning us against hypocrisy and an outward show in Christian service.  I believe the heart of His issue is that what we do, if it is to be authentic Christianity, must be done from an inward principle and pure hearted passion to do so, that we may be found faithful and approved of God, not that we may ever be honored or praised of men.

The tragedy we often miss about His warning, is that we see the idea of reward as a promise that is desirable, and fail to recognize He is not speaking of the reward God promises to those who do good, but the reward hypocrites promise themselves. 

Oh, yes, they get a reward for sure, and this post went right to the source and showed us the only manifestation that reward has to offer.  In this case, it is a “CHURCH REPORT”!  WOW!!  What a great reward!  We do what we do to be noticed, honored and praised by men, and…guess what…that is what we get!!! 

So,

Wendi, in what seems a pure hearted desire for understanding, asks the question,

( “I’m on the board of a local faith-based NPO. We’ve just hired a new Executive Director and have also “hired” a PR person to help us get the word out. We want to paint a good picture, and capitalize on the opportunity to get our organization some media attention. We’re not professionals at media relations and we felt it was prudent to get professional help. Is that different than the way TBN capitalized on the Top 50 article? We didn’t feel any ethical conflicts when we made the decision to pay someone to help us, but now I wonder . . .
Opinions???)

The issue is 100% a heart issue Wendi, and 0% an action issue!  There really is no reason to ask if it is right or wrong to use the PR person. You mention later about the issue being one of integrity in representation so that whatever is presented in image is truth in reality.  That is without question at the core of what should speak to us, but I would like to suggest that you take some time to seek the Lord for His light to reveal any possible hidden desires for recognition and honor giving fuel to the decision for a PR person.  If you discover none, and all is pure…GO FOR IT.

Hi Jim-

I think it is a good idea to use prominent people as examples to point out errors.  Paul opposed Peter publically, for example.  One reason why Paul Crouch and the false prosperity teachers flourish is because real ministers of God are afraid to confront them, for a variety of cowardly reasons.  If their sins were exposed and they were held accountable, I believe they would really “shape up or ship out.”

...Bernie
http://fgn.typepad.com/

Galatians 2:11
[ Paul Opposes Peter ] When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong.

About cowards:
Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Ephesians 5:11
Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.

Jim Eaton said:
“To use prominent people as examples to point out error in a public forum where they are neither present nor receiving the benefit of the correction, is to leave that brother or sister with whatever darkness is there, unministered to, unchanged and untouched by our love.”

If a prominent person errors, they have already been made aware of it by numerous people.  For example, in my confrontation with Pastor John Hagee (preacher on TBN).  I tried 1-1, but him and his staff refuse any contact.  But even if I never tried to contact him, his well-known financial abuses have been publically raised, and he ignores them.

Take any prosperity teacher, such as TD Jakes.  He knows full-well what his critics think of him.  It makes no difference if he is rebuked by me or you today.  But we can tell our congregations (if we have them) about this false gospel and the damage it is doing to the church.  Many or most pastors, I think, are too cowardly to raise names to illustrate what’s happening.  It’s so easy to rail against the prosperity teachers, in general, with never mentioning who they are.  Because of this, their very congregation and friends/family of the congregation are not fully equipped or warned about this menace to the church.  When you mention names like this, you can endanger your livelihood and income.  A true prophet can address it, however… one who has died to self and lives for God, not man.  A very rare bird, indeed, like our master, Jesus.

Just my opinion.

...Bernie

Peter said:
“But neither of them went out of their way to confront, they did it as they did their work, Jesus as he encountered the Pharisees day-to-day,”

Your congregation IS facing these false teachers on a day-day basis!  They watch TV everyday.  I think you’d be surprised how many in your congregation have no warnings about these false teachers, and may even be supporting them!

...Bernie
http://fgn.typepad.com/