Fantastic question. I look forward to hearing what people have to say…
(I’ll reveal my hand and say: discernment is key! but respectability for its own sake be damned!)

“How do you determine that someone looks “too much like a stripper” to support (or too much like a drunk, or too much like a homosexual, or too overweight, or too anything?”

Hmmmm, sound a lot like what God is going to judge when He returns. I think I’ll leave that one up to Him.

Our opinion of her ministry really doesn’t matter. We truly have no idea who she is and what the ministry is around her. We are not a part of it and cannot honestly make a statement from afar. We definitely cannot judge from afar.

Praise God that someone who has gone through it and can actually relate to the industry and understanding the girls involved is willing to do this.

We have a lot of ministries in the church right now that are like this. They just don’t look the same.

Hey CS,

Ummm, I doubt Heather is paying for dances, and I doubt that she is stumbled by seeing a scantily-clad woman in a strip club. If a man were doing these things, I’d have more concerns, but would not automatically rule out ministry or make accusations of sinfulness.

Also, you mentioned her website.  If you mean the myspace page, I didn’t find any objectionable pics on it - nothing you couldn’t see in a JC Penney’s catalog.

Tell me… is a Christian cop in sin when he responds to a call at a strip club? 

Dave

Should we (Christians) be reaching out to women in the sex trade? 

Uh, duh!  Are they sinners?

That said, I agree that Greg Laurie should not be cast in a negative light for not throwing his support behind this ministry.  It’s not his ministry and whether he chooses to throw his ministry’s support behind it is a decision for him and his ministry.

I was worse than all sinners and then I was saved.

I was saved but didn’t walk fully with God.

I walk fully with God but you know, I am not perfect.  Far from.  Still, the chief of sinners.

That lady might be making some poor choices in her life despite being saved.  That is called being human.

She is also reaching to people who many of us won’t reach out to.  She can get into places that we can’t.  She is not only frontline but a spy into the enemy’s territory.

Don’t judge her.  Pray for her.  Pray for protection upon her mind and heart.  Pray for God’s wisdom for her.

God loves the stripper just as much as he loves me.

Dave:

If you buy drugs from a dealer, but don’t smoke them, in order to get close and share the Gospel, would a police officer still arrest you?  You’d get locked up pretty quickly.  So even though the girls do not gyrate for her, she is still spending money that goes to fund the adult entertainment industry.

As for the opinion of that professor, it only interests me if he uses solid Scripture to back it up.  The professor said that things were fine, “as those involved do not have to compromise their beliefs.” It really doesn’t matter if they compromise their beliefs at all if their beliefs are incorrect or misguided in the first place.  Additionally, we should not do anything that cause another brother to sin; going into strip clubs could definitely cause other Christians to falter. 

Now, for the police officer rescuing someone in a strip club, that is a good logical trick question.  If I say that the police officer should rescue, then the rebuke is, “Well why shouldn’t Heather, if she is doing greater saving through trying to win souls?” If I say that the police officer shouldn’t, then I would be faulted for not caring about what happens to people.  But the main difference here is who is saving what.

A Christian cop is acting in the role of a police officer, under the authority present in Romans 13.
This is a similar question to, “Can a Christian solider kill someone?” or, “Can a Christian spy lie about who they are?” Under the authority of the rulers (government), he is doing a civil service, just like a soldier or spy.  His function is not there explicitly for soul winning, as Heather is doing.  Jesus saved many prostitutes and sinners, but we do not see him entering into the environments of sin like a brothel to do so.  (And, no, Matthew’s “party” would not qualify.)

Heather’s pictures and attire overall lack the modesty the Christian women are implored to have.  Tight shirts, bouffant hair, and make up like that look similar to many other porn stars.  And, I was not speaking out solely against her looks--it is the total scope as illustrated in my previous posts.

Yes, let’s saved the lost, the destitute, and adult film performers.  But let’s do so in a Godly way.  The “means to an end” philosophy is wrong.

--
CS

“How do you determine that someone looks “too much like a stripper”, etc. to support ? 

My fear is looking too much like a preacher!  That said, if the trappings get in the way of the message, then the ministry can be compromise by the perception of morals (or lack thereof).  So much of what the culture does depends on “the look.” Does McCain or Obama “look presidential?” Does the guy with the sandals and earring “look like a pastor?” It seems to me that somewhere the transformation we experience brings us to a place of authenticity. The only time I see Jesus doing image management is when he, uh, stripped and washed a dozen feet.

And don’t even get me started on televanglists and their ten-gallon hair and made-for-TV suits.  There’s a case of reverse stripping - I’m not worried about them disrobing, I’m worried about them stripping me.

Tony:

“1. It’s simply inexcusable to judge the content of someone’s heart by what they’re wearing.”

You cannot judge the content of someone’s heart basing it on appearance, correct.  But in 1 Peter 3 and 1 Timothy 2, women are called to dress modestly.  Heather does not do this.

“2. It’s simply inexcusable to suggest that this young lady is doing anything wrong. It’s not what goes into a person that makes them unclean, it’s what comes out.”

No, it’s perfectly reasonable and right to suggest she is doing something wrong.  We are called to test things in light of Scripture (1 John 4), and if what she’s doing doesn’t match up, we need to say so.

“3. It’s simply inexcusable to think that being in an unsavory place somehow also makes us unsavory. God is in that strip club before anyone ever goes in to minister.”

Going into an unsavory (sinful) place does not make us sinful, but it makes it easy for unbelievers to speak out against us, and can lead us into sin.

“4. Would I do what she does? No. I’ve struggled with lust, and wouldn’t consider that a good environment in which to find myself. Would I appluad her, give her a hug, pray for her, and encourage her to continue to serve God as best she can? You bet. “

I’ve struggled with lust, too.  And I would call on her to repent.

--
CS

CS:

You wrote:
You cannot judge the content of someone’s heart basing it on appearance, correct.  But in 1 Peter 3 and 1 Timothy 2, women are called to dress modestly.  Heather does not do this.

My response:
To whose idea of modesty are you referring? Certainly she dresses more modestly than the people she’s ministering to. You may be projecting your own standards of modesty on the texts to which you refer.

You wrote:
No, it’s perfectly reasonable and right to suggest she is doing something wrong.  We are called to test things in light of Scripture (1 John 4), and if what she’s doing doesn’t match up, we need to say so.

My response:
Yes, we are called to test everything in light of Scripture. Please point out which of her actions - not her shortcomings in other areas, but her actions with regard to witnessing in strip clubs - is wrong, and please also provide Scriptures to back you up.

You wrote:
Going into an unsavory (sinful) place does not make us sinful, but it makes it easy for unbelievers to speak out against us, and can lead us into sin.

My response:
Going into unsavory places makes it easy for unbelievers to speak out against Christians? #1, they don’t need a reason...and #2, treating strippers with less respect than we treat each other is plenty of reason, if they’re looking for one. Jesus put His reputation on the line by eating a meal with a traitor (tax collector), and I don’t see this as much different.

Going into unsavory places can lead us into sin? Sure, that’s true. Going to church can lead us into sin as well...it’s not as much about our environment that leads us into sin as it is our reliance on the Holy Spirit to guide us from moment to moment. There’s nothing inherently more dangerous about a strip club - for an ex-stripper - than there is for you or me at the grocery store. Temptation is all around us.

You and I might never agree on the best way to reach strippers. For me, it’s theoretical anyway, since God has not yet called me to do that specifically. My suggestion is that everybody should allow this young lady to grow to maturity without being condemned for what is ostensibly an act of both charity and obedience.

CS:

I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

You wrote:
This bridges onto moral relativism…

My response:
No, it doesn’t. I’m questioning your interpretation of the Scriptures with regard to Heather’s modesty. Can you apply Scriptures directly to what she wears and conclude that she should wear something else? If so, what sort of garments would they be?

You wrote:
I cannot find one instance of Jesus or an Apostle going into a place of sin like a strip club.

My response:
So you lack Scriptural basis for this type of ministry? I see...let’s apply that to other types of ministry and see if it holds water. If the church you attend owns a building in which to hold services, your position fails. If the church you attend has a children’s ministry, your position fails. If the church you attend has a baptistry, your position fails. If the church you attend puts on a Christmas play or an Easter pageant, your position fails. None of those have a Scriptural basis either. If you don’t attend church, your position also fails. It’s a mistake to apply a standard for Heather that you wouldn’t apply to other Christians with the same zeal...wouldn’t you agree?

You wrote:
I’m sure Ted Haggard did some fine preaching while he was busy with a male prostitute. Should that not have discounted him, by the same logic?

My response:
You’re referring to hypocritical moral failure, which you haven’t established in Heather’s case. Ted Haggard (who was a neighbor, and pastored a number of my friends) should have excluded himself from his ministry because he was living a double life that he wished to keep secret. Heather, however, appears to be trying to live out the Great Commission by ministering to a segment of society that most other Christians avoid like the plague. I consider your argument a red herring.

You wrote:
I think that you would agree that the proportion of temptation and the level of sinful activity at a strip club or adult film convention would be higher than that of going to the grocery store, right?

My response:
Absolutely not! Find someone who’s struggled with lust (or look in the mirror) and ask whether one needs to create a special environment for their vice. Temptation doesn’t come from the outside, CS...it comes from within. When the adulterous woman was brought - naked - to Jesus for judgment, they were eventually left alone. He didn’t say “put some clothes on so I can talk to you”, or “I can’t risk my ministry to the whole world for you”...instead, He talked to her as if her nudity didn’t matter at all, because it didn’t.

You seem to think that going to a strip club necessarily makes one vulnerable to temptation and prone to sexual sin. Let’s see what Jesus said to those who thought this way...you can read it in Mark 7:

Listen to me, everyone, and understand this...nothing outside a man can make him ‘unclean’ by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him ‘unclean’...for from within, out of men’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. These evils come from inside and make a man ‘unclean’.

>> He called them to Him, and/or accepted their invitation to speak with them (almost always in the open or in public). 

PT: I don’t think you have all of your facts straight. Jesus did something incomprehensible to the religious folks of His day: he ate with sinners. Tax collectors were considered traitors and thieves, and He spent time with them privately...not out in the open, but behind closed doors in private homes.

The fact that you find it incomprehensible that someone might go into a strip club without compromising doesn’t mean that you’re right.

Let’s not pretend that we - outsiders - are in a position to judge whether she’s doing something wrong. It’s fun to comment and nitpick and argue theoretical points of view, but it’s a serious mistake to pretend that we know what we cannot. Is she sinning when she pays for a lap dance to buy time to witness to someone? I think you’d be hard-pressed to show it.

I wouldn’t do it, but - then again - I’m not a former stripper, or a woman. I applaud her intentions, and believe that God can and will guide her.

CS:

I’m not familiar with 1 Titus...and it doesn’t look like you’re referring to Titus 2:9, so I can’t really respond to your use of Scripture here.

A good question might be “at what point does Heather cross the line between ill-advised clothing and sinful clothing?”. It doesn’t look to me like you have the answer...only your own opinion, which may or may not be applicable.

As far as Ephesians 5:3 goes, I fail to see that it’s being applied wisely. There’s a qualitative difference between dressing in ways you think improper and being engaged in sexual immorality. It doesn’t appear that Heather is engaged in sexual immorality in this case, so you may be applying your personal preferences in place of an actual Scriptural standard.

Using the same standard, one could justify condemning Jesus Himself when dealing with the woman caught in adultery. I understand the good advice for pastors (as but one example) to never meet with women one-on-one, but Jesus was alone with a woman who didn’t have a stitch of clothing on, and nobody even considers applying Ephesians 5:3 to that situation. I think we should interpret Ephesians 5:3 in light of the good example that Jesus set. There wasn’t a hint of immorality in His actions, but - were anyone else in that situation - you appear ready to condemn such actions anyway.

Unless you have something earth-shaking to say, I’m probably done here. No offense, of course...but I’d rather discuss this in the clear light of Scripture rather than in light of our own opinions. It may have run its course, but I’m willing to listen in case you’ve been holding out on me. =)

Tony,

I find it interesting that in your responses you have not just agreed to disagree, but have directly questioned others’ integrity or at least that of their response.  You castigated both myself and CS for daring to present “opinions” and yet then proceed to forcefully impose your own.  Just in your last response to me, you write “I don’t think . . .,” “I think . . .,” I wouldn’t . . . ,” “I’m not . . .,” etc.

I absolutely agree with you that our discussions and positions should be based on Scripture.  Yet, isn’t there still an element of interpretation and application that is unavoidable?  Isn’t that what you also are doing?  Isn’t the whole point of this blog in general and this question in particular, to elicit the stated opinions, based on Scripture, of the participants?

Now, to address your specific points.  I don’t appreciate being told to get “my facts right”, especially when you don’t really dispute any.  Jesus’ having dinner with a large group of people (including some ‘sinners’) in a private home is fully within my previous statements.  Nor can such in any reasonable way be considered analogous to hanging out in a strip club!  When I referred before to Him almost never being private amidst rampant sin I was referring mostly to one-on-one.

Further, please tell me when - as you asserted - Jesus ever met one-on-one and in private with a naked prostitute?  None of my Bibles seem to include that.  They do, however, include a detailed reference to praising Joseph for running away from a woman who tried to get him alone. 

Also, my Bible says that we are to “flee” from sin and have nothing to do with it, but nowhere have I found Scripture telling to me to “look but don’t touch,” “smell but don’t eat,” or “enter but don’t participate.”

Concerning your challenge of my tone and assumptions, let me correct you by stating that NEVER did I say it was “incomprehensible that someone might go into a strip club without compromising.” NOR did I ever assert that I had to be ‘right.’ In fact, several times in my response, I qualified myself by specifically saying “in my opinion.”

You say:  “I wouldn’t do it, but - then again - I’m not a former stripper, or a woman. I applaud her intentions, and believe that God can and will guide
her.” Where in Scripture are points given for “intentions”?  Isn’t holiness, righteousness, and God’s glory (the full weight of His character) the ultimate goal?  Why wouldn’t you do it?  And, why therefore, might it nevertheless be OK for someone else to do it?  Simply because she’s a woman?  She’s also a former stripper.  Should we encourage recovering alchoholics to minister in their favorite bars?  Are you aware that today, women are statistically as involved in addiction to pornography as men are?  Of the fad of bi-sexualism - especailly among strippers and porn ‘stars’?

Regarding your comments to CS about my reference to Ephesians 5:3 you completely ignored the point of the whole verse (and epistle for that mater).  The key phrase in that verse is “not a HINT.” The key theme of the epistle is walk in the light and have nothing to do with darkness.

Lastly, Jesus is and ever will be the only “Perfect Man” - both fully human and fully divine, and utterly without sin.  Therefore, to automatically try to compare His ability to resist a temptation as normative for everyone else is illogical and absurd.

And, yes, that is my biblically informed opinion for which I make no claims of inerrancy.