It’s amazing to me that Chuck Jr. is branded to have liberal leaning and called an imposter because of his desire to direct his message toward more positive life changes rather that hammer at lifestyle, and yet I heard almost nothing from that same denomination during the mess with Skip Heitzig at Calvary in Albuquerque NM.  Perhaps a stand was taken by some of the church’s main leaders and Chuck Sr. himself but I couldn’t find anything. 

As I remember the beginning of Calvary Chapel and as one of those former “Jesus People” I can remember the call to a new height and the lack of finger pointing toward others that approached ministry differently.  I was refreshed as I sat and listened to Chuck at the Costa Mesa church (and tent) and was liberated from the entanglements of denominationalism and had the freedom to worship and love God from the heart.  It was a positive message.  A message that spoke to my heart where God was once again alive.  It was a message that never attacked those within the body, yet now it does so, within the family.  Sad!

Seems things have changed in 30 years.

This is just a sad story.  I could give opinions about denominations and all that, but at the end of the day I’m seeing a father and son tearing apart.  Somehow I don’t think this is good for either of their churches.  Most importantly it’s not good for them.  Very sad.

A statement near the end of the article says “The breakup with Calvary Chapel, as he [Chuck Jr.] sees it, was a good and inevitable thing. He wasn’t abiding by house rules, so it was only fair he go.” That was the best statement in the article.

Too bad that Jr. didn’t simply go to his dad years earlier, once his differences with Calvary Chapel became clear, and say “let’s have our churches part ways without fanfare so that the parting doesn’t become divisive to the larger body and a distraction to those we both want to reach.” Or too bad dad, who had to have seen the writing on the wall years earlier, didn’t do the same.

Although I think I would align more theologically and philosophically with Jr., his failure to take this step does disappoint me.  Yet . . . in the “family business” I know that’s a hard step to take.  It can only be more difficult now that so many of Chuck Sr.’s followers have campaigned against Jr., camps have been solidly formed and their parting has captured media scrutiny.  I think it should have been possible for these men who love one another to orchestrate a parting was much more kingdom focused.

The LA Times painted Sr. as a judgmental, arrogant exclusivist and tyrant; and Jr. as completely loving and compassionate, but theologically and socially liberal, maybe even a universalist.  In all likelihood, neither is an accurate picture.

Sad, very very sad.

Wendi

Al… just wanted to point out that, if one trusts the article, the ‘intolerance’ seems to be coming from the Sr. (rather than the Jr.) side of the spectrum (no need to politicize this as ‘religious right’ and ‘religious left’ by the way, since nothing is said about politics).  You’re welcome to believe that non-fundamentalists spend their days looking for conservatives to be scandalized by, but I’m not sure you can do it from this article.
Cheers,
-Daniel-

Since I work for Pastor Chuck and my picture was on the front page of that LA Times story along with him, let me tell you that Chuck Smith is not a tyrant or intolerant. The man is loving and gracious and very faithful.

Regarding his relationship with His son, that is really none of my business. I see the fruit of Pastor Chucks parenting by looking at the many years that his son has ministered in the same church. I have to believe that when a man raises up a son who becomes a minister for many years, He has done a fine job…

Daniel if you don’t see the trend in the media today to attack anyone who dares stand for the simple biblical truth that Jesus is the only way, truth and life, then, my friend, I don’t know what to say.  It is always interesting to me that the Jr. was applauded for his “tolerance” and “open mindedness” to suggest that Jesus might not be the “only way,” while the Sr. was castigated for his “hard core” stands on Jesus Christ and the sin of homosexuality.  Believe me Daniel I don’t have a dog in this fight; I am sure God is blessing the Jr. as he has done the Sr.  I am making an observation that this has been the thrust of the MSM since prayer was kicked out of school, to tare down biblical pronouncements of truth with “commons sense” and “broader thinking.”

Later,
Al

Ed, I have to disagree with you.  I don’t see any comments here suggesting anyone should put family before God.

It was pointed out that we all have a responsibility to minister to our own families, and someone suggested perhaps Chuck Sr. put ministering to his church before ministering to his family, but that’s not the same as saying you should put family before God.

I definitely see my responsibility for the spiritual needs of my family as greater than my responsibility to my church, but that doesn’t mean I put my family before God.

The Apostle Paul said in 1 Tim 5:8, “But if any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” I’m not sure this is exactly what Paul was talking about but he does place an emphasis on family.

I found it very interesting to read everyone’s comments.  I am in Wendy’s camp.  We attend Capo Beach Calvary.  (See we haven’t been using Calvary Chapel in our name for a long time.) We are not like CC now.  I understand what Chuck, Jr. is teaching.  I came from a very legalist fundmentalist church - The Foursquare Church.  Now I would have never gone to a church where people stood up and spoke in toungs because I was embarrased to bring my friends.  I couldn’t, at that time, been able to explain what was happening.  I do now and have the gift of toungs. I loved the fact that Chuck Sr. did not do not this.  I went there for a couple of years and got closer to God. I loved his teaching.  But Churches are full of human people and we all make mistakes.  As soon as I divorced my Husband (because he was abusing me.) We went to marriage councling.  I said what he did to me and this wonderful Christian counslor made a golf date with my abuser!  And on top of that, my Bible Study girlfriends never called me turned their back on me and told me I was following my worldly friends.  I tell you all of these personal things to make a point.

The youth of today will not stand for anything phony.  They want the real Jesus like the kids in the 60’s wanted.  The loving, tender, caring, non-judgemental Jesus.  I believe that Chuck Jr.is teaching the same Jesus that his Father taught!  But he is doing so in their language.  That we can find Jesus in Art, Icons in the Catholic Church is only ART (we are not bowing and worshiping the art), Music. kids gave gone back almost to the folk singers of the 60’s. I love Rock!  Prayer. you can kneel or light a candle.  It’s only because you want to.  No one is telling you what can or can not do.  Chuck is teaching us to be real christians.  So you can see there is no break between Chuck, Sr. and Chuck Jr.  Chuck Sr. is coming to our church to talk on last two Thursdays of this Month (that could always change).  So if you are interested in hearing what The Man as to say at CBC come and hear it for yourself. 

PS excuse my spelling, I am tired and I want to go to bed!  God bless you all.  Remember that the greatest comandment was Love or was it that Love your neighbor thing.  Oh I have to go to sleep.

Truth is the basis for fellowship!

Can two walk together unless they agree?

Amen to the Sr!  Preach the truth!  OhMe to the Jr!  “A wandering star… a wavering soul… a wolf with itching ears” (if he condones homesexuality while he ridicules faith and authority).  I hope the article us unfare in its portrayal.

Gini - on spelling . . . At least you were tired and have an excuse - Eye jus’ cain’t sppelll. . .

Gini - as long as we are calling the gay lifestyle sin - then AMEN - I can dialogue with you.  Gay’s are welcome to come to my church - and I will preach to them that they must repent of their sin of homosexuality… before God destroys them.  My sins are BIG sins too (and ultimately the wages of all sin is death - eternally) - but the timing and intensity of God’s wrath upon various types of sin (while we are still upon this planet) does indeed vary. 

I disagree with anyone who wants to make sinners feel more comfortable in their sin… Not saying Jr. actually does that - he was accused of it though.

And, I know - don’t trust the MSM.

Thank You Pastor Dave -

Yes, I call it sin because the Bible calls it sin.  I do not see where you see different levels of sin?  Sin is sin.  If someone came to our church being gay and they received Christ.  We would not ask them to leave just because they are gay and did not change their life style but struggled with it.  I think this is where we differ.  Let me see if I understand what you are saying.  Would you say to that person because you have not stopped sinning you can not come to our church?  We do not tell couples (male and female) that they must stop living together or we will kick you out of our church.  Please, see what we do, is to give them the truth.  The Holy Spirit will convict them of their sin.  Do you not see that christians are getting a bad rap for not fellowshipping with gays?  We want to get them to continue to fellowship with christians.  We continue to pray for them but judge them no.  Some critize Chuck, jr. because he “allows too much sin in our church.” Where else can they go, but to God?  Where is the Love?  I love those who continue to sin beause I am one of them. 

I worked in the beauty business for years and Accounting offices and have met many gays.  I like them.  They can be fun and the best girlfriend a girl could have.  I have watched a friend die from AIDS while christians sung praise songs over him.  I am sure I will see him in heaven.  I have no Heaven or Hell to send anyone to.  Our God is a great God and probably has more mercy and grace to give than we can imagine. 

Pastor Rene - I understand what you are saying.  I too have left churches because I have been hurt by “christians”.  Just remember churches are made up of humans and there are NO perfect churches!  I agree that leaving was the right thing to do.  Keeping your eyes on Jesus is the most important thing to do.  Don’t get caught up in bashing the old church just move on.  Please don’t feel sad for Chuck and his Dad because they still have a great relationship.  Some people just can’t stand that thought.

God Bless, again and may the love of Jesus be with you.  Gini

Oh, I was waiting for all the things you said to me Pastor Dave and I still love you.  I try not judge.  I do have relatives that hate blacks and use the N word.  I still love them but I would tell them ‘’what you say hurts my heart because I have black friends that I love.’’ No, I would not turn my back on those - how would they learn and yes I would countinue to fellowship with them.  Why?  Because how can they learn Jesus loves the black person?  and turn from their attitude (sin).

Yes I would fellowhip with a couple that live together for the same reason.  I want them to see Jesus in the relationship that my Husband and I have.  I do not tell them it’s OK (I know what the bible says) but I encourage them to talk about marriage and see the beauty in marriage.  Believe me, you will see people change.  Let the Holy Spirit do the work he was designed for.
I have been that girl and my life changed.  You do not want them to go out the door hateing Christians and NEVER going back to church.  Christianity can hurt people.  I believe they will come to understand how sacred marriage and why.

I’m sorry but Christian Pedophile is an oxymoron.  You can’t be a christian and hurt children.  No I would not fellowship with him.  I would be too worried about our children in the church.  You see that type of sin could hurt some one.  I have never met a christian canibal.

Let me ask you Pastor Dave, the last two were a little out there.  Are you saying that If I did not protect the church from bigots and unmarried people they would influence other to do what they are doing?  Why didn’t you just come out and say that?  Are you saying one apple will spoil the whole bunch?  If you try to kick out all that sin no one would be in your church!!

I find it funny that homosexuals want to get “married” and our young people want to “live together?” Think about it.  Yes, you are correct about scripture - God hates sin but again I say he also hates gossipers and we all do that!  I don’t like this “hate the sin but love the sinner” we give to homosexuals.  I have heard so many throw that right back to the Christian right.  I ask you are we winning them to Christ????  NO!  We win more with love than we win with beating them over the head with scripture.  And screaming REPENT!!!  TURN OR BURN!!!

So yes JR knows his bible very well.  He says go help the homosexual with Aids.  Baby sit for the couple that is not married.  Go out and DO SOMETHING for the hurting people of this world.  Do you get what I mean Pastor Dave.  In love, Gini