This seems to be semi-common in the PC(USA)...??

Unfortunately, I am aware of a situation with an RCA church in which a scenario similar to what Will described actually happened.  The only solution I can see that protects both sides of the argument is to drop the “property in trust” requirement of the denomination and require a supermajority vote to leave the denomination.  I will pray for Kirk of the Hills to make wise decisions in regard to future property and where to meet for worship.

“the local church sued both the PC(USA) and the regional presbytery to retain ownership of the more than 100,000-square-foot building”

Glad to see that Kirk is not drifting from their “biblical base.” Of course, Paul did not mean that this was to apply to church property.  I mean, for heaven sakes, church property is God’s greatest asset in the kingdom and worth defeat and shame!  How very, very sad. 

1Cor 6:5-7, <i>

5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother goes to law against another–and this in front of unbelievers! 7 The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers.

I pose a question to Tom D and Jesse. If your church that you had attended all your life, your family has been in for generations, decided that what was best for the church congregation, by overwhelming majority or unanimously, was to remove themselves from the denomination they were currently in; those people there are the ones that gave, sacrificed, poured their blood, sweat, and tears into. What right does a denomination have to say, well you did all the work built up the church body and facilities, but you can’t keep the facilities? Why wouldn’t they want to and deserve to fight for what they have built for the kingdom of God, however that fight had to happen?

For the record, I am part of a denomination that does/will do the same thing if a church pulls out to join another fellowship, and I am a Pastor in said denomination. I can’t say that I wouldn’t do the same thing.

Hi Will,

Thank you for your comment and question.  I have actually been near the very circumstance you raise.  I was an elder of a church with a 45-50 million dollar facility.  We discussed leaving the denomination due to their general liberal moving leadership.  The subject of the facilities and ownership came up.  In our by-laws the facilities belonged to the denomination.  Suing the denomination was not on the table.  To leave the denomination, it was understood, that we left our facilities. 

Too often have I heard someone in that church’s leadership state that our greatest asset was our facilities.  Brother, our greatest asset is the Holy Spirit working in obedient children, not facilities or property! 

Just listen to your words, “...those people there are the ones that gave, sacrificed, poured their blood, sweat, and tears into... [the ministry] and therefore deserve the property? 

The Bible is clear, “One man plants, another man waters, but God makes it grow!” Or have we forgotten that it is God who brings growth, and now we claim our church’s growth base on our own “sacrifice, blood, sweat and tears!” My God forgive our pride!  I see now that we serve a broke and powerless God, who depends on us preserving his kingdom by our own efforts.

The church has been defeated in this instance on so many levels.  For example, my dentist is a very active and devout believer.  He made a mistake in my dental care, causing me to have a crown where a simple filling would otherwise be necessary.  Knowing that he was negligent, I told him that I should not have to pay for the crown.  He disagreed.  I then offered to take the issue before the elders of his choosing for a ruling on the matter, and whatever they decided, I would agree to.  He refused, and said, “this is business, not a church matter.” He actually wanted me to take him to court!  I told him that a brother never takes a brother to court and I would not do so.  Eventually he consulted with an attorney and then took the cost of the crown.  I am still his patient.  We still are friends.  He demonstrated however that he is not of the kingdom in all matters, but rather in the world in this matter.  The church, in the same way, is secular for all practical purposes in such matters when it takes its internal matters to secular courts. 

Brothers do not take brothers to secular court...period.  We should rather be wronged.  Not even a 50 million dollar property is worth the violating of God’s kingdom.  This is a testimony that we no longer trust God, but in our own programs and efforts--regardless of how we put our own spin on the matter.

I found this to be interesting since it was the first time I heard the story told from the PCUSA side.  I would still think the property should go with the church not the denomination but it was still enlightening. 

If my denomination changed from the stance of biblical sexuality to pro-homosexuality.  I would remove my church.  A denominations primary role is to guard truth not define it.  PCUSA failed in this role.  They are handing a new set of truths to their churches rather than protecting those truths for their churches. 

This in my mind makes them not entitled to the property.