Todd is right… it is sad.
I hate to see ANY church go through something so gut wrenching and disappointing.

I am sure that there is no such thing as a completely innocent party here - we are fallible, we are fallen.
We do need to pray for this church, as well as others who are struggling within (as a church in Chattanooga TN that I saw a report on this past week).

These churches need our prayers.
Their private battles don’t stay private very long and it takes its toll on the WHOLE Church body. We all suffer when a church stumbles.
Is it any wonder why many on the “outside” look at us with disdain?

Pray for this church, pray for other churches, pray for your church…
I’m praying for you - we’re in this together.

Doug

Todd says [Lastly, whether you’re a supporter of Pastor Cummins or not, I (personally) have a hard time believing that it’s right to set up shop down the street, knowing that you will take a considerable chunk of people from FBC.  Should he not just walk away?] Yes, he should. If he starts a new church and it becomes a nightmare, I hate to say it, but a lot of those people who join him will be getting what they deserve, “reaping what they sow” as it were. And people will follow. If they’ll follow Star Scott they’ll follow this man.

Hey Tim,
Not sure any of us know what the respectable thing to do is when things like this happen.  I think the respect thing is somewhat valid, however, you probably could say that on both sides.  Secondly, we do not know the outcome of such difficult situations, however, many times when these things happen people always jump to conclusions stating that these issues are bad or that it should not have happened, or if the pastor would have done this, or if the people would have done that… Sometimes it is hard for us to say what should or should not happen.  I know that there are ripple effects from all of this but in retrospect this is just apart of sinful behavior, pride, and the lack of unity.  Paul addressed these things in the communites within the Bible so it should be no shock that they are happening today.  Does that mean that it should happen, no I am not saying that, however, if a group of people have been at a church for years and have been bullying the leadership to do what they want them to then maybe it is good that the leadership challenged their arrogance… If this pastor is truly as horrible and prideful as the people would make him out to be then maybe it was good that the people stood up to him.  Who truly knows?  This is people being people!  This is tiring and ridiculous and probably ludacris to even debate the merrits of what should or should not happen inside of a local congregation.  All I know is God is still God and at the end of the day if both parties do not understand that love is key, unity is imparitve, and that one’s feelings and circumstances should not dictate actions then they both will move down the road and encounter the same problems over and over and over again until they get it.  Sometimes these are the things that happen, same old tired story of pride, selfishness, and lack of unity.

It is difficult to say if it is right for a pastor to resign from a church and start a new church within the same area. But it seems that the Holy Spirit was not leading in this situation. The Spirit will bring unity. The problem lies with our flesh nature and what “we” want. Pastors need to model and teach surrender to their church members. I am reminded of Philippians 2:3 “Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves:” As a pastor, I can tell you the Lord does teach us that important principle.

Peter,
Nice comment, that’s looking at it with a glass half full aproach!  I am sure Joel Osteen could use a new life coach… LOL

I doubt that FBC could have/would have kept all the people who will go with Cummins. The Apostle Paul would not allow John Mark to minister with him because of a rift, but Barnabas took John Mark with him.  In time, even Paul saw the benifit of having John Mark minister.

If Cummins does not try to “work” the congregation to get others to come, he could be alright spiritually speaking.  He should encourage his congregation not to try to get others from FBC to join them.  There are times when there are two distinct visions in a church, and a split might be a good thing.  It would be nice if the two sides could say publicly, “We agree to disagree and wish each other well.” That is probably not going to happen. 

The other thing:  if Cummins reputation is so tarnished by the articles and exchanges, what else could he do?  What church would hire him?  Is it possible God uses all this to keep Cummins in Ocala?

There are no easy answers.  And, NONE of us knows who breached integrity, when and how. 

Hopefully, Mr. Cummins will do it right.  My opinion is that his credibility is not hurt any more than FBC’s credibility.

Second Baptist Houston was a split off of FBC Houston, but decades before Ed Sr. arrived.  He revitalized it, as it was in serious decline - I was living in Houston when he came.

Todd, your questions - 1) Is it right to set up shop down the street? & 2) After the news clippings, is your credibility shot? - are pertinent to Cummins, but not to most other pastors.  Typically, church splits don’t make the news the way this one has.

Failing the newspaper attention, I feel called to my city and would stay here (though my church is not without its struggles, we are long way from this).  I wouldn’t attempt to “raid” the other church, but it is likely some friends and folks with a similar vision would find me and join in.

They wouldn’t likely stay anyway.

Which is the point with FBC Ocala.  The people supporting Cummins are not likely to stay whether or not he stays.

These calls for healing are Biblical, and they SHOULD be heeded, but that is not what is most likely to happen and Cummins presence may make it easier to fail to reconcile, but it certainly isn’t what will keep it from happening.

The attitudes that got them to this place to begin with will keep them there regardless of the presence of Cummins.

If healing is to take place, Cummins would need to be a part of it as would the staff that had been terminated.  People leaving, no matter who they are, doesn’t automatically begin healing.

Tony, 2nd. Houston was begun in the 40’s after a split with First Houston. Ed Young came from Alabama as pastor in the 70’s.

You may have heard about this when a church in North Houston merged with 2nd Houston after a nasty split with the former pastor doing the same thing and taking almost half of the congregation. That happened about 4 or 5 years ago

Who’s right?  Who’s wrong?  It doesn’t matter.  What matters is that the world sees Christians who can’t get along.  It sees people who can’t forgive, who can’t bear with one another and who apparently refuse to love one another no matter how hard that may be.  Churches/Christians have a responsibility to show the world around them what the Kingdom of God looks like.  This church apparently is not concerned about that.

I was on staff at a church where a similar situation happened.  Without getting into the gory details, half of the church sided with the senior pastor on the issue, as well as a large number of the staff.  When he and his executive team resigned one Sunday morning, he announced he’d be starting a new church basically right down the road.  The church split.  Three-fourths of the church staff resigned in the following 2 weeks.  Peoples hearts where shredded, and God’s name was dishonored in the community due the the public nature of the whole ordeal. I stuck it out for another year and know first-hand how painful it is to go through. Right now my former church is barely surviving, while the church the senior pastor started isn’t in anywhere near the amount of turmoil.  Personally, I don’t think it was right for my former senior pastor to have started this other church and taken a huge chunk of people like he did.  He should have just stepped down, taken the high road, and looked for ministry elsewhere when the timing was right. Pride and the desire for power are to blame in my eyes.

I hope and pray this church in Ocala does not suffer the same way my former church has.

I have recently been through a heinous church conflict myself.  I personally would stay away from any church birthed out of a conflict or split, but if someone was considering attending such a church, they should really ask… “Lord, should I attend this church?  Is the church focused on Your word?”

The Lord may not be done humbling this man.

Will Clegg,
Amen, brother.
fishon