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Pastor Receives $130k Severence Package - Has This Ever Happened to You?!
Orginally published on Monday, June 19, 2006 at 10:00 AM
by Todd Rhoades
I'm wondering how many pastors have ever received a 'separation agreement' or a severance package when leaving their church. I've heard that some do, but I'd be interested in hearing some details. Here's an article on one pastor's package from the St. Petersburg Times...
The congregation of First Presbyterian Church has agreed to pay nearly $130,000 as part of a separation agreement with its longtime pastor, the Rev. Charles A. “Chuck” Jones III.
On June 4, the congregation voted 140-32 to dissolve its relationship with Jones. Bill Davenport, a church member who helped negotiate the separation agreement, said some members felt it was time for a change.
“There was a vocal group that thought it was time for Chuck to move on,” Davenport said.
Jones said Saturday that the agreement “happened some time ago” and that he has not seen any communication from the church since. He declined to comment further.
“I don’t think it’s appropriate at this point after all that’s happened,” he said.
Davenport said he thought Jones had done a very good job and supported him. But, Davenport said, Jones “did not want to make a fight” that could have led to a split in the congregation.
“There comes a time in any organization when, rather than have a major split, you just move on,” Davenport said.
Under the agreement, the church, at 701 Beach Drive NE, is paying Jones for accrued sick leave and vacation, as well as salary, housing allowance, pension dues and Social Security taxes through May 2007, according to a letter from Carlen Maddux, clerk for the church’s session, or governing board.
Davenport said Jones’ relationship with the church ended around the end of May. The church has now started a search for an interim pastor and a permanent pastor.
The payment to Jones was based on the presbytery’s guidelines, Davenport said, which take factors such as length of service into account. Jones has been pastor of the church for just over 10 years.
Jones announced his decision to resign in November, saying he was searching for a new job because of “unrest and concern” from some members of his congregation.
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Today’s question: Have you ever received a severance package? If so, how was it figured, and (in your opinion), was it fair?
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Hi... I'm Todd Rhoades. I'm a chronic workaholic, love to connect leaders with other leaders, and would consider myself somewhat of a 'maven'. Hopefully you'll find something here at MMI you'll like and will return often. If you want, you can find out more about me or follow my every step.
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Posted by kent
Monday, June 19, 2006 at 10:49 AM
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Monday, September 22, 2008 at 5:40 AM
Post Your Comments:In our systrem you have a minimum of 6 weeks severance,. In my previous church when my predecessor left they gave him 6 months salary, they rented a house for him for one year and kept up with his health insurance for a year aftyer he left. And there people in chruch who were upset that the church “fired” him. I told them could fire me the same any time they wanted.
Something similar is going on in a church up here in the Twin Cities. After founding his church a local pastor is being asked to step down to allow someone else to lead it. He does not want to leave and the board has given him a forced sabbatical. At the end of the sabbatical (I think it’s for 1 year) if they do not reach an agreement, the pastor will receive a generous severance package.
Wearing my HR hat from my days in the corporate world (a little dusty but I think I can recall some stuff) . . .
It might help Exec Pastors and boards to know that vacation is always considered wages earned. In other words, accrued but not taken vacation must always be paid at the time of separation in $$. Use it or lose it policies are against the law (FLSA from the 1960’s). MANY churches that get tripped up on this one. Sick pay might need to be similarly paid, but this will depend upon how the sick pay policy is written into the policy manual or handbook (assuming there is one).
The caution for churches (and any employer) regarding severance is not to be arbitrary or inconsistent. A good rule of thumb is to pay severance based on position (admin staff vs. pastoral staff) and length of service (so many months for so many years). The minute it becomes a case-by-case decision an employer sets themselves up for accusations of favoritism. In a church where there can be thousands of people with loyalties and opinions, creating an opportunity for divisive behavior that can be so very disruptive to the body.
Finally, boards that make these decisions must commit to keeping what is said in a boardroom in the boardroom, and what is said publicly must be one voice, agreed upon by the board. Congregation members will corner staff and board to find out the dope on what is happening. These are often very close friends and family. That is not to say that a congregation should be kept in the dark about personnel issues, but that what they do hear is truthful, appropriate and the same from the mouth of every person who is “in the loop.” If I was a member of 1st Pres St. Petersburg, I would want to know what severance was offered my departing pastor. After all, my tithes are paying him.
Wendi
A severance package isn’t all that uncommon, and (in my experience) usually signifies that the church has asked the pastor to leave. When that happens, I think it is generally appropriate for the church to offer a package. From the little I can glean from the news article, it seems that a small group in the church didn’t want the pastor anymore, and all but forced him out. I’ve been through that, and it’s not a pretty sight. With a dozen people on staff, I’m guessing that the church is large enough to have a well-paid pastor; on that assumption, the severance doesn’t seem unreasonable to me (maybe 1-2 years worth of salary) - especially considering it was “based on the presbytery’s guidelines”.
What’s most disturbing to me is that this made it to the newspaper.
Yes, I thought it was odd that it hit the newspaper as well.
I know a guy who was on staff at three churches, and each offered him a severance package within a year or so (and they were nice 3-6 month packages). Kinda ticked me off…
does it seem that the church can sometimes almost encourage incompetance?
A follow-up to Wendi’s comments: When I was on a church board walking through something that sounded eerily like 1st Pres St Pete, I suggested that the board adopt a severance policy similar to what she described in terms of consistency. The problem with that, as we discussed, was that the circumstances under which a severance might be paid are inconsistent . Certainly if you are terminating someone “for cause” (e.g., moral failure), there may not be reason to offer a severance. But if someone voluntarily resigns because a small segment of the church doesn’t want them there, should they get a severance? The small minority would probably say no, because they “voluntarily resigned”.
As for disclosure, there is a fine line between too much and not enough. We disclosed that a severance package had been offered, but not the terms of it. In our situation, the people who wanted to know were of two minds: either they didn’t think he should have been paid anything, or they thought that no severance would have been enough.
By the way, it’s probably good to consider including the following in a severance agreement, as well:
*Can the pastor take a position at another local church?
*Can the pastor start a church locally?
*What disclosure is acceptable by the church and/or the pastor?
*If the circumstances may have caused emotional distress to the pastor or his family, will the church pay for counseling? (Definitely consider this; make it available, even if the pastor doesn’t think it’s necessary. I’d say make this available for some time after the rest of the severance terms cease...say, 3-5 years.)
Good point, Randy about severance packages having some conditions tied to them. In the corporate world these are “non-compete” clauses. I’d never want a pastor to be getting a severance if he’s starting another church three miles down the street, maybe not if he’s taking a job across town (or the severance ends upon securing new employment in the same community).
Other conditions written into the policy could involve things like whether or not the separation was voluntary, and church boards must be very honest about how voluntary a resignation really is. Even if there is mutual agreement a resignation is often not voluntary.
A good employment law attorney can help draft a policy that assures general consistency with a bit of wiggle room for inconsistency in circumstances.
Wendi
Just a note of correction. A few comments have made mention of “a small group” yet the article says the vote was 140-32. Looks like it was a large majority. I would suggest getting the aid of a HR person to help develope any severance policy.
A note about my use of the term “small group”: I based my use of that phrase off of the comments in the article, not the vote; Bart is correct that a vote of 140-32 seems to indicate a large (82%) majority. However, the church had 1,019 members in 2005, meaning that only 14% of the members voted to terminate the pastor. Even looking only at worship attendance (545 in ‘05), that “large majority” boils down to just 26% of attenders. (Stats are from the PCUSA’s website: http://www.pcusa.org/tenyeartrends/report/EI47O4M/all_statistics.pdf .)
Any way you look at it, a relatively small group voted for this change...and, of course, a much smaller group voted against it. What concerns me is that only 32% of the attenders (and only 17% of the members) voted; those numbers strike me as problematic in what they say about congregational involvement in a major step for the church.
Well it’s better than the “kick-’em-to-the-curb” we mostly hear about. I guess when you run a million dollar budget you can build in an “exit” clause for getting rid of a staff member. Most churches I have been associated with have had a “nice to know ya—see ya later” clause (here’s your bus ticket out of town).
Do we know if that 140-32 vote was the vote asking the pastor to leave OR a vote approving the severance package? That would make a difference.
There is a NEED for churches to think through this issue before they need it.
Having personally “transitioned” (left a church) three times, I can say that none of the details of the departing were thought out by the leadership before they acted on them.
The realities of ministry transitions are:
1. Finding a new position takes time. Expecting a pastor to serve full-time and full-bore through his last Sunday service and be gone to somewhere specific on Monday Morning is both sick and wrong.
2. When a pastor leaves, there are still a million connections to the former church and it’s members… let these ties fall off loosely, and naturally over time. If you can operate tomorrow as if the pastor wasn’t ever there, either you aren’t a church, or they weren’t a pastor.
3. Home Depot and Walmart are full of former pastors who can’t afford their health insurance… In today’s world, a church that doesn’t keep insurance coverage for its former staff is an “ABUSER.” And yes, I do mean to shout that.
4. A love offering and a parting gift are not enough to put food on the table, or to help with relocation expenses.
5. How a church says farewell to a departing pastor is 100 times more important to his future ministry than how they welcome a new pastor.
Just my experienced opinion from 23 years of observing.
Wow! This was a class act and very professional. I’m impressed. In the circles I am in, it is usually two or three weeks notice with at the most [if you are fortunate] one month’s severance salary.
A wise board or church council should develop a church policy manual to cover all the eventualities - to include the tough task of letting go a pastor or staff - legally and in grace.
I know from experience a pastor who was let go and he sued the church. The church lost everything because they had no liability insurance, did not follow their by-laws in the termination, and did not have grace. The property was sold to pay the legal fees and little was left over for the severance package.
When I left my last church after being there for almost 16 years, to be a full time church consultant, the church continued to pay me for 3 months, and they paid into my retirement and health insurance. This amounted to about $11,000. I was extremely grateful as they were only obligated to one month according to the church constitution.
Great blog I hope we can work to build a better health care system as we are in a major crisis and health insurance is a major aspect to many.
Greatly written indeed… I really enjoyed your article and found it to be very informative, keep up the good work, I’ll be coming back to read any of your future articles..
Thank you,
Health Insurance
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