Sorry to break out the dead horse here so I can start beating it again, but for anyone who read this book: does Rizzo actively promote the direct sharing of the Gospel message as a part of the community service that churches should be doing?  Does he ever say anything about preaching or witnessing to people whom churches are serving with words?

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CS

HA! Todd. Love that response. Yea, READ IT CS then judge for yourself.

Leonard Lee:

I read through that page, including the paragraph that you cited above.  The entire framework of their method of evangelism is commonly called, “friendship evangelism.” This is not a form of evangelism found in the Bible, and it is rife with so many other problems.  You can read a good article about the problems with it at http://www.revolutioninchrist.com/RevolutionInChrist/Relationshipeva.html .

Relevant to the context of this post, if this is the preferred means of sharing the Gospel that Rizzo promotes, then I can almost guarantee that a direct sharing of the Gospel message while doing good deeds in the community on a first-time endeavor would be discounted.  He would probably say that the continuing good deeds would lead to friendships that would lead to opportunities to share the Gospel, but again, that’s not a model of evangelism prolifically illustrated in the Bible.

Seriously, this is the thing that drives me crazy.  If you believe that God has saved you from sin and from Hell, and is willing to offer you eternal life, why wouldn’t you want to shout this as loud as possible to everyone, especially when coupled with good works to offer up as proof for His saving Grace?  Why would you want to wait when souls are dying?  Why would you try to build up a friendship under potentially false premises, wait for some signal that it’s okay to share, while that person may yet die and go to Hell?  The only things I can think of are: (1) you are ignorant of the Bible’s call to evangelize, (2) you do not believe the Bible when it comes to the judgment and wrath of God to come, or (3) you hate people and would rather let them die in their sins than make them uncomfortable with a direct Gospel presentation.

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CS

CS
To discount friendship evangelism as non biblical is to argue from silence and preference.  There does however seem to be support for living out your faith in such a way as to have people come to Christ..  I see this in Acts 2, and throughout acts as well as in early church history.  This is a church that is committed to reaching people through serving them, sharing Christ with them and has indeed found success. 

Heck, Peter even tells us to be ready to answer those who ask us a reason for our hope.  He tells us this in the context of people seeing our lives and responding.  Knowing Jesus should make me a better person, better friend, father, husband, co-worker… For some knowing Jesus has just made them more critical and vocal.

(I realize that I may be testing Todd’s patience here, so I’ll try to be brief and respectful.)

Leonard:

“There does however seem to be support for living out your faith in such a way as to have people come to Christ..  I see this in Acts 2, and throughout acts as well as in early church history. “

I notice how in Acts 2 Peter does a direct Gospel presentation to the point where in verse 37 people were crying out, “What must we do?” Yes, they were living out their faith, but to give credence to my stance on this, they were forthright in sharing their faith.

Todd:

“Please… take the time to read the book.  Then travel to Baton Rouge, and go out with them on a 110 degree day to serve those who nobody else wants to minister to.  Then, let’s talk.”

I may indeed take a look at the book to see what he has to say.  But as for going out and serving, not to brag, let me qualify my own works in why I have these views. 

I have a ministry where I go to parks and visit troubled kids and give them food, water, and a friendly ear for listening.  I’ll be going on a mission trip shortly overseas to help with orphans and the homeless in a third-world country.  I routinely perform random acts of kindness, from carrying things for people, helping those stranded on the side of the road, in scorching summer heat to blizzards in the winter.  And yet I make sure that they know I do these things in the name of Christ by sharing the Gospel, preaching, or giving them a tract wherever I go.  Because I care so much about their souls more than anything else.

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CS

Acts 2
- there was no one among them that had need....  Good Deeds

- They enjoyed the favor of all people… good will

- And God added daily… Good news.

Why give them water CS?  Why give them food… why be friendly?  Kindness opens the door.

You are doing friendship evangelism.  (gasp) what will Jesus think of that?

Leonard:

“Why give them water CS?  Why give them food… why be friendly?  Kindness opens the door.  You are doing friendship evangelism.  (gasp) what will Jesus think of that? “

Let me diagram the two ways of doing good deeds with, “friendship,” evangelism and explain the differences.  Here is the way I do it:

DEEDS -> GOSPEL -> FRIENDSHIP

or…

GOSPEL -> DEEDS -> FRIENDSHIP

You see, in this way, things come together in harmony.  My words are proven by my acts of love.  And my acts of love have a definite reason for why I am doing them.  And eventually, if the person so chooses and things work out, we can develop a friendship that will persist.  This seems to be a biblical model for doing things, with Acts 2 as reference.

Now, let’s compare this to modern, “friendship evangelism.”

DEEDS -> FRIENDSHIP -> GOSPEL

In this system, a person builds up a friendship with someone through the use of works, with a hopeful eventual goal of delivering the Gospel message to them.  But, there are so many things that can prevent this from happening.

First, the person could believe that the friendship was under false pretenses to only share the Gospel, leading to resentment.  Second, the Gospel may never be shared because the person does not want to risk the integrity of the relationship.  And third, the person could die or be removed from the relationship before the Gospel can be shared, which leads to someone potentially dying in their sins.  This is the model that was cited on Rizzo’s website, and one I believe is dangerous at best, and unbiblical at worst.

To Todd’s points, while I will do good deeds occasionally without passing out a Gospel tract or taking the time to witness, I make it a standard to do share the name of Christ as often as I can when doing these things.  Because if I don’t talk about my faith, (1) the person may instead believe in the wrong idea that people are by nature good, (2) that person may not understand why someone would do something so nice, leaving them confused, and (3) that person may never get another opportunity again to hear about Christ.

But again, are we so ashamed of the Gospel message that we don’t share it directly? 

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CS

CS, how does that work for you?  Are you seeing poeple become Christians and are you disciplining them into the local church?  Are those whom you share Christ with confessing with their mouth Jesus as Lord and believing in their heart God has raised Him from the dead.  Are they then finding a home in God’s church here they are becoming discipled?

Leonard:

To complement Katrina’s response, your question was bordering on pragmatism.  We are called to faithfully do the work of God in preaching to all everyone a message of faith and repentance in response to the atoning work of Jesus Christ on the cross.  If one person hears this message and receives Jesus, praise God.  If a million people hear this message, praise God.  But either way, no matter how many people are saved by God or not, the Gospel must be shared. 

If numbers are the issue and hangup, consider Jeremiah the prophet.  He did as he was told by God and did not see a single person respond.  Would you call his ministry errant or ineffective?  I doubt that you would.

Or, it’s kind of like the posts that Todd has put here before about being a, “successful,” pastor.  If you exercise the Word and your congregation grows, are you successful?  If you practice proper church discipline according to the Bible and your congregation shrinks, are you successful? 

So, if I dutifully preach the Word as I do good deeds, and yet see no one saved by God, was I wrong in what I was doing, or was I doing what God commanded me to do?

But, the point here is that if the Gospel is not being shared in an active and direct way in the first place, we can’t even get into an effective discussion about effectiveness or the like.

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CS

I guess I have rubbed Todd the wrong way so as to prompt him to remove my posts...it is his blog none-the-less so I guess he can do what he wants.

Leonard,

You are reading your own prejudices into my posts. What you are hearing is what you want to hear. I am sure if we got to speak you’d change your mind but nevertheless the truth does cause a defense of one’s own error when it is directly confronted so I understand your animosity and don’t take it personally. 

Discipleship is great whenever possible but most times that is not possible.  If you get a chance to listen to this link http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2162126027431181510 you’ll see by the testimony that though discipleship is fantastic it is often not possible.  As you can clearly see, when God saves someone He does it completely and His Spirit brings them to a place where they can be fed spiritually.  Our God is an awesome God!

CS, I can say we agree on the necessity of preaching the Gospel and I can say we agree on the authority of scripture.  But I am not sure we land on the same page here. 

The command of JESUS was to make disciples.  We do so by witnessing to Christ in such a way as to partner with God the Holy Spirit and see people drawn to Him. 

I find it interesting that someone who would and has so quickly condemned the “false” conversions of churches would have so little regard for the great commission.  To make DISCIPLES.

I think it is you who drips of pragmatism…

In essence you seem to be saying - I preach, if they are really saved they will want to go to church… I do what I can… I just do what I am supposed to do… let the other stuff sort its way out.  So is it your goal to make disciples or preach the gospel?  Did you not have a problem with a church and how it communicated the Gospel with you?  So wouldn’t it make sense you would want them to find a great church.  One where the true gospel was preached? 

What about the person who knows nothing about Christ at all, who does not have any idea of how to take the next step of faith.  Do you baptize them?  If you are following the pattern you espouse, you must see this as a necessity as well.  What about the person who is Catholic, do you direct them back to the local Catholic Church so they can be told they were already saved because of baptism as an infant.  Philip baptized the Eunuch, do you. 

Katrina, I have no animosity for you and do not defend my error but rather challenge your spirit and the harshness at which you communicate.  It is the common tactic to avoid such introspection by claiming those who challenge are in error and aligning yourself with Jesus.  I will pray for you, in this matter you make me sad.

CS,
You are not answering my question.  I do not avoid sharing Christ with poeple. As much as possible I will work within a structure that points and connect people to other believers.  When this is not possible I get phone numbers and contact info and will hunt down a local church.  I am connected with people who have connections most every place I go.  I network for the sake of making disciples.  So if you will here are my questions again.

Is your goal to preach or make disciples?
Do you baptize the people who convert under your preaching?
Are the people who are converting under your preaching finding homes in the body of Christ?

The great commission is to make disciples, not converts.

I make disciples very well in the act of “friendship evangelism”.

I don’t so much in the act of drive-by preaching for the hopeful purpose of conversion.

An issue has been made with the original post where none exists. Inferences have been made, not necessarily correct ones.

CS writes above “In the act of evangelism, there are tons of times where in the process of spreading the Gospel that a relationship cannot be forged afterwards that would facilitate discipleship due to distance or other circumstances.  Consider how the early church people would go and preach from town to town.” Uh… in my Bible, Paul spent a great deal of time in the places he went to. He didn’t blow into town, preaching the Gospel and hoping that it took. I don’t think that was the norm in the early church at all.