Okay, I’m going to (as a former Episcopalian) comment on the whole gay thing. There is NO way that a practicing gay person can be ordained to the clergy (as long as they are not “blessing” same-sex unions) without being an adulterer. Common sense. But here is the issue. The idea put forth by many of these people, especially gay NH bishop Robinson, is that the Bible is no longer the authority for matters of life and faith. I quote V.Gene Robinson word for word…

“Just simply to say that it goes against tradition and the teaching of the church and Scripture does not necessarily make it wrong. We worship a living God, and that living God leads us into truth.” So if the teaching of the church and scripture don’t necessarily make something wrong, what exactly does make it wrong?

These individuals should be drummed out of leadership in their churches NOT because of their sexual orientation or behavior, but by publicly proclaiming that they feel the articles of religion in the Book of Common Prayer are wrong. They are, by their actions and words, demonstrating disdain for the Bible and for the teachings of the church, indirectly and (as above in the Robinson quote) directly. THAT is my issue.

And, to further clarify. I have NO problem with someone in serious sin attending and even serving in my church. I take issue with someone TEACHING that my church’s teachings and the Bible are wrong, in a church-sanctioned manner. This is why, by the way, the church I USED to attend (an ECUSA church) is one of the ones that has “seceded”. This is why the denomination is crumbling and splitting.

Peter and Brian are right. If practicing homosexuality doesn’t disqualify you, then adultery certainly shouldn’t.

Unbelievable what happened at Newspring last weekend. Check out Steven Furtick’s blog about what happened at Elevation Church last weekend. They are a church plant that is less than eighteen months old and are already running around 1400 in weekly attendance. They had 126 people accept Christ as their Lord and Savior last weekend. Amazing stories like these need to be told to the world. Thanks for doing your part Todd.

Hadn’t heard that on Steven’s blog yet… how awesome!

Todd

Oh, also…

there is NO way that you can “prove” the existence of God in ANY amount of time to somebody who has already a closed mind about it and doesn’t even want to consider believeing He is… And with so many of today’s “post-moderns"… proving something doesn’t prove anything anyway…

Why does no-one ever ask the quesiton this way:

Prove that God doesn’t exist?

“This is kinda off-topic...but apparently Slice is back…”

GREAT! I love balance…

“What I do know is that Holy Scripture sets apart more than 2000 references for us to do something about the POOR of this world----but so very often, we humans, we sinners spend our time and self concerns paying attention to the mere 6 lines about sex.”

Is it possible that if we had paid more heed to the “6 lines about sex” , we’d have less poverty? How much poverty could be eliminated by obedience to Scripture (including obedience on the part of oppressors who have caused circumstances that give rise to poverty) ?

“The poor you will have with you always,” does not excuse us from serving them but does inform us that it’s a condtion that won’t be eliminated through human means. and yes, the bishopdave family also sponsors a child in central America, and provides monthly support for a pastor in Honduras.

Todd,
Does the withdrawl of a few Episcopalians mean my MMI will download faster?  If so, I repent… all these years I thought that every word of scripture was important… now I realize my error.  I guess there must be at least 1000-2000 supporting statements which make me feel better before it is God’s AUTHORITATIVE Word…

Peter - thanks for the NO SPIN ZONE. (Sorry, I can’t think of a name to call you.)

AL - Poverty was only half eliminated, leaving room for another Clinto to finish the job in 2008.

Come on now, the 6 verses referred to by the aforementioned Episcopal Priest are the ones which refer to homosexual sex, and I think everyone realizes that.  I don’t think she was trying to minimize sexual sin in the eyes of the Episcopal Church, just homosexuality.

One of the things I like about MMI is that people here always seem open to discussion and (somewhat) tolerant of dissenting views.  But many of the comments here today seem pretty intolerant.  I’ve participated in discussions (arguments?) at Episcopal sites like T19 and others, but those sites are all on one side of the issue or the other.  I’d like to think of MMI as more neutral ground where civil conversation could take place. 

When I listened and followed where I believed the Holy Spirit was leading me, it led me away from the fundamentalist church I grew up in to where I am today, less judgmental, and more tolerant.  So I applaud the clergy and members of the Episcopal Church, on both sides of the issue, for following where they believe the Holy Spirit is leading them.  And while I’m not agreeing they are correct in their interpretations, I’m glad there is a place for gay and lesbian people to go and seek a relationship with Jesus Christ, that He might accept them or change their hearts as He sees fit.  I know they would not be welcome in the church I grew up in, they would have been physically barred or ejected; reminiscent of the UCC videos with “bouncers” at the doors and “ejection pews” catapulting the unworthy out of the building.

Brian,

EXCELLENT way of putting it. Interesting that tolerance in many people’s eyes has come to mean relativism. If I am “tolerant” of you, then, by definition, I disagree with you, but still somehow manage to show you respect and dignity. The woman at the well is a GREAT example. There is NO way she left that encounter without knowing two things. 1. That Jesus cared about and respected her and 2. That he did NOT think the way she was living was okay.

I, too want anyone living any lifestyle imagineable to be accepted in my church and feel loved. It doesn’t mean I have to say that what they are doing is okay, though. There’s a balance. Few have, in my experience, found it.