Interesting that Liberty University couldn’t give away free parking because of separation of church and state laws, but I’m quite certain the protesters would insist on separation of church and state, unless it affects them, like parking in the Plaza for an Obama rally.

Churches have to be good neighbors.  Being Christians doesn’t give us the right to take over someone’s property without their permission.  I know of churches that have agreements with neighboring businesses that their lots can be used on Sundays for overflow parking.  But this does seem to have been blown out of proportion and certainly didn’t require the intervention of the media.  I also question Liberty saying letting attenders of a political rally park on their lot as a violation of their tax exempt status (is this really true) particularly if it was not paid parking.

So, a bunch of people got up on a sunday morning, went to a parking lot which did not belong to them and told a bunch of other people that they could not park in this lot.  Interesting

Not exactly.  It seems that Toys R Us put flyers on the church-goers cars asking them not to park there.  TRBC (which is a very large powerful church in this area) threatened a boycott, and Toys R Us was more or less forced to allow the parking.
And it wasn’t separation of church and state that prevented Liberty from opening their empty unused lot up to citizens attending the Obama event.  It was a political decision (no body familiar with the situation seriously doubts that in anyway, even LU folks), but that’s fine because it’s their property and they can use it how they want.  It’d just be nice if they respected another private property owners right to do the same.

Jonathan Falwell wasn’t pastor over there at the time; his dad was, but I would be shocked if this was truly the first time he’d heard of their being problems (In the interest of full disclosure, when a Falwell says one thing, experience leads me to be inclined to believe the opposite absent further evidence, however Toys R Us employees field complaints about the parking situation every Sun and Wed, so for the news to have never filtered up to Falwell is unlikely).
I did speak hastily however when I said TRBC threatened a boycott.  It would be more accurate to say that a large number of TRBC members threatened a boycott.  I do not know if the threat was officially sanctioned by TRBC.

A couple points of clarity from a Liberty Alum

1.The Obama rally in question was held August 21, 2008, over a year after Dr Falwell was in heaven with the Lord and Savior whom he served.

2.Since Dr. Falwell’s passing Jonathon has served as Sr. Pastor of Thomas Road Baptist Church and Jerry Falwell Jr has served as Chancellor of LU (both doing an outstanding job.

3.Neither brother reports to the other as both the church and the school are independent entities

4.It was Jerry jr who blocked the parking on the other side of town.

5.If you think that Jerry Jr. was being political just imagine for a moment what Jerry Sr. I amazed there wasn’t a conservative rally being held at the same time.

6.As the article states Toys-r-Us was not the ones asking people to leave, but rather trying to work out an arraignment with Jonathon.

7. (Todd, if this is out of line delete this part or at least forgive me) Dolphin, If you are going to attack the Falwells and claim that they are trying to bully others (the alleged boycott) than at least have the honesty to identify that you are (as you state on your blog http://www.dolphinsdock.com) “a fairly liberal, gay, male”

Actually, Dolphin you would be surprised how often I am able to make a trip to Lynchburg (after all it is a great city and home to the World’s Most Exciting University). Plus, while I know that it may be difficult to envision this, I do have a friend or two that still reside in Lynchburg.

As to your attacks on Dr. Falwell, Jonathon, and Jerry Jr. allow me to refresh your memory from one of your posts “when a Falwell says one thing, experience leads me to be inclined to believe the opposite absent further evidence.” What you have done is to accuse these men (perhaps even the entire Falwell family) of being dishonest. I have had many dealings with the Falwell’s both in VA and in OH and one thing that I can always say about them is that they are men of integrity. I don’t appreciate when they are attacked.

As to the mention of the fact of your political leanings and your choice of lifestyle, I mention them because you attempt to present yourself as an objective third party, when neither you nor I are objective third parties.  It is neither bigoted nor hateful to point out that you have chosen things that are diametrically opposite to what Liberty University, Thomas Road Baptist Church, The Falwells stand for and therefore ought to be taken with a grain of salt, just as I identified that as a Liberty Alum I will be biased towards them.

As to whether or not all of mankind are sinners, I assure you, you will not find one argument against that coming from me. I know that if it were not for the grace of God, I have no hope. I know that your sin is no greater than my sin and that Christ loves you and desires to forgive you of your sin and to save you. Dolphin, Christ loves you and gave Himself as a substitute in your place so that you can be forgiven and freed from your sin.

Dolphin,

There is little doubt that you and I would disagree on many things, but much of the concern you bring up with the Falwell stuff is indeed to be concerned about.

Rest assured, I might not agree with you on a lot of things, but I, for one, am a relatively conservative Christian who does NOT hate you in the slightest bit (there are many of us!), and I’m really glad you’re here to offer your perspective!

cheers!

Thanks Peter and Pat,

Believe me, one or two of my heroes in life are conservative Christians who I disagree with on a myriad of subjects.  I well recognize the differences between disagreement (which can peacefully coexist with love!) and hatred and have seen both demonstrated by folks of all faith and political leanings.  I think that the vast majority of us (of all of us), fall in the former camp versus the latter, I just wish the latter wasn’t the more vocal part of the spectrum.

Chris,
This will be my last comment to you. Feel free to respond or not as you like.  I won’t be back to read it either way.

I have friends who believe that being gay is wrong.  It’s something we disagree on obviously, but these people love me and accept me for who I am, just as I love them and accept them for who they are faults and all (even when we don’t agree on whether a given trait is a fault or not).  While I’m happy to help them overcome anything they choose that I consider to be a fault, I don’t condemn them for their faults (so long as they aren’t hurting others as a result), and will not condemn them for them so long as I’m not living a perfect life myself.  Anything else would make me a hypocrite.

But these friends who disagree but do NOT hate me have never called me a “brute beast,” they have never said I was “vile, and satanic” and they have never hoped for the day I would be “destroyed and all of heaven will rejoice” (and for the record, they also never blamed the 9/11 terrorist attacks on me).  Those words, the words of Jerry Falwell Sr (and only a few examples among many similar things he has said to and about gay people), are not words of compassion, they are not words of heart brokenness, and they are certainly not word of love.  Those are words of hatred.  There is no mistaking it.

Let’s be 100% absolutely clear on one thing.  It was YOU who derailed the topic and tried to make this a conversation about Jerry Falwell and homosexuality.  I found myself in a “damned if I do, damned if I don’t,” situation with you as had I not acknowledged that I was a biased source you would have most certainly doubled your efforts to paint me as someone trying to hide my bias (after all you made the deceitful accusation despite my open and purposeful acknowledgment of my bias).  However, having acknowledged my bias, you attack me for “attacking Jerry Falwell” when I did no such thing (I stated that MY opinion of Jerry Falwell, or any practitioner of hate-based “Christianity” is not high.  You CANNOT tell me that i’m wrong on that because you CANNOT tell me what MY opinion and MY experience is).  When someone is as devoted to hatred as you are though, that’s the way it goes.  You would have found something to complain about in anything I had said.  Finally, if you think I’ve libeled the Falwells with anything I’ve said here (either before or after you expanded the discussion), then put your money where you mouth is.  Email me and I’ll give you the appropriate information to start your libel lawsuit.  If I don’t hear from you, I will assume that you indeed realize I didn’t libel the Falwells (or anybody else) and will simply chalk your statement up to another lie from a seemingly pathological liar.

Finally, all I ever wanted when I came here was to provide some clarification to some misunderstood facts about the situation so a meaningful discussion on the morality of violating personal property rights, and whether a church, as a professed spiritual center within a community, has more or less of a calling to respect personal property rights.  In the process I allowed myself to be baited into doing the very thing I was prepared oppose.

And so to Todd, I’m am profoundly sorry and offer only my sincerest apologies for disrespecting your personal property (this blog) by whatever role you feel I had in allowing this conversation to veer from the purpose you intended when you set up this space.  I hope you will forgive me.

Chris, I have already and will continue to pray for you.  Not that you will come around to my way of seeing things, but only that you will find success in achieving the spiritual goals you are here to achieve whatever that entails.  Best wishes to you and I hope you find joy in your life.

This is interesting. I thought it was because the parking cars would affect the store’s business. Hope this rule won’t affect the toy business - it brings inconvenience to the customers who need to park there.