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Wanted:  An Old Fashioned Church

Orginally published on Friday, March 07, 2008 at 8:32 AM
by Todd Rhoades

I’m looking for a good Christian church. I don’t want to sing songs off a wall, the same five notes, over and over and over and over again while I am lightheaded from standing so long. There’s a record of the hymns of God’s people that spans 2000 years. Why are we so arrogant as to think we don’t need those wonderful songs any longer? Have we gone through more suffering, more affliction, more pain for Jesus than those who wrote these enduring hymns? Does a semi-secular song writer in Nashville with a multi-million dollar music contract have more to say to us about God and the Christian life than the 17th-century hymn writer who lost four children and his wife during the 30 years War?

I don’t want to have my eardrums bashed in by the three kids in the “worship band” who can’t be bothered to bathe, shave, dress or comb their hair on Sunday morning. If it’s really all about the God that Scripture describes as ineffably holy, shouldn’t that be reflected in attitude and dress for those who serve in church music?

I don’t want a vampy “praise and worship” leader who is flaunting her wares at every male within view as she does her worship moves on “stage”. If we are to worship God in spirit and in truth, as Scripture tell us, than what’s all the flesh about? Can we no longer discern the difference?

I don’t want to see people in beach attire with their backsides peeping out of their shorts because they think that God isn’t worth their best efforts at dressing. “God doesn’t care about clothes, only man”, they say. But the real reason is that it’s just plain easier to cruise into church in jeans or whatever is still lying on the floor from the night before. Dressing up for worship of the Lord would cost them something, however little, and they don’t want to pay it.

I also don’t want to see all the variations on lovers’ back rubs where Chuck and Sue take turns massaging each other’s neck and shoulders during the sermon so everyone behind them is completely distracted. Behavior affects other people. Are Christians so self-absorbed that they never think about the people behind them trying to hear the message?

You can read more at SliceofLaodicea.com...


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  There are 44 Comments:

  • Posted by bishopdave

    “Does a semi-secular song writer in Nashville with a multi-million dollar music contract have more to say to us about God and the Christian life than the 17th-century hymn writer who lost four children and his wife during the 30 years War?”

    Oh thanks Slice! Now my cappuchino has come out thorugh my nose!  Yea, verily the more I read that sentence, I see some validity there. Remember kids, theologians used to be our songwriters.

  • Posted by

    Y’know, I was pretty content when Slice went silent for a while.  While there’s some validity to these statements, how about if we go back to the period prior to Martin Luther when only “professional” singers were allowed?  Better yet, let’s sing some of those songs from the early church.  I’d love to hear them.

    Yes, songs need to have theological depth and not just a catchy tune.  However, you can sing those out of a hymnal or from a screen.  The Gettys are even writing new Hymns now, harmony and all, with sound theology.  And now all contemporary P&W;is completely void of theology.  Ugh.

    As for the quote above, I think it’s also safe to say that some 17th century hymn writer may have less to say than some person who has a multi-million contract.  Just because it’s old doesn’t mean it’s good (and sometimes there’s a really good reason these hymns have been dropped).

    I love music that praises God and have been blessed to be able to look more beyond style and concentrate on the theology.

    I guess I’m glad that you keep us aware of what Slice is putting out, if only so we know what people see of those who call ourselves Christ followers.

  • Posted by

    The writer makes a couple good points, but I must add that the theologians who were writing at their time were writing songs that fit their culture.  If our church is to speak into our culture I find it best to use music that fits today’s culture.  Perhaps you do not have to change the lyrics which were written by the theologians of our past, but the music that goes along with those lyrics must change. 

    This is also true about the way people dress for church.  Did Jesus dress up to go to the Temple?  No, of course he didn’t he was poor.  I swear people would condemn Jesus if he were to show up in our churches today.  He’d look dirty and undesirable and would probably be chastising us for how “Temple-like” we’ve made our churches.  We don’t like people like that in our churches. 

    I should also point out that the writer is quite upset about people being selfish and only caring about themselves in church.  What is he/she doing in this very article?  It starts out with “I’m looking for...” for crying out loud!!  Well, maybe the person next to you in the pew is “looking for...” relevance, understandable music, preaching, etc.

    Just some thoughts to add to the discussion.

  • Posted by

    Is this supposed to be satire?  To quote Stewie from “Family Guy” - “That’s not funny.”

  • Posted by

    Yes there is one of those churches down the street from my house.  The 23 people left are guarding the sanctity of the service have an application for you to fill out and a covenant to sign.

  • Posted by

    Richard:  That’s just Slice - best summary I can think of is “angry Christian”, barely worth reading except to find something to be upset about.

    Tom:  Jesus wasn’t rich?  But, what about all of the preachers who keep telling me that he was?  I’m so confused.  Should I ask for my money back now?  (posted with a huge grin )

  • Posted by

    Peter,
    I know I couldn’t believe it when I discovered that fact as well.  I guess I was wrong to think I’d be pulling in over $100K when I finish seminary.

  • Posted by

    “I don’t want to sing songs off a wall, the same five notes, over and over and over and over again while I am lightheaded from standing so long.”

    How about this: can we please stop the songs where we are singing to God like He is our girlfriend?  You know, those songs where if you exchanged “Jesus” for “baby” or “my lover,” and the song would be fine for secular radio.

    --
    CS

  • Posted by Rob

    I could read more....but why?  It’s not worth the time to click the link...it’s not about her, me, or you...it’s all about Him.  If people could get that, really get that, church would be a much different place for ALL of us.

    (sigh....and we wonder why more and more young seekers turn away from the church, seeing absolutely no difference in how they are treated inside the sanctuary as they are on the street....)

    (Stepping off my soapbox...)

  • Posted by Peter Hamm

    CS writes [How about this: can we please stop the songs where we are singing to God like He is our girlfriend?] Holy cow, CS, we agree again! We better BOTH check our temperature…

    The writer of this post shoots himself in the foot. [There’s a record of the hymns of God’s people that spans 2000 years. Why are we so arrogant as to think we don’t need those wonderful songs any longer? Have we gone through more suffering, more affliction, more pain for Jesus than those who wrote these enduring hymns?] THIS part is so true. I try and use great old hymns as often as I can, but I play them in today’s idiom, the way I suspect the hymn-writers would want.

    But…

    [Does a semi-secular song writer in Nashville with a multi-million dollar music contract have more to say to us about God and the Christian life than the 17th-century hymn writer who lost four children and his wife during the 30 years War?] Uh… please find me somebody who writes worship songs with a multi-million dollar music contract. That’s a fantasy. And yes, maybe these people today have something to say, in our time and in our idiom, that is more pressing to us, in our present reality, than someone who lost their family during the 30-years war.

    Check out “Wholly Yours” by David Crowder for instance. GREAT theology, great message, and no “jesus is my boyfriend” anywhere near it.

  • Posted by

    Peter:

    “Uh… please find me somebody who writes worship songs with a multi-million dollar music contract. “

    The author was alluding to songwriter Brad Paisley who recently made a song with Sara Evans called, “New Again.” It’s played a lot on country radio, and is supposed to be the interchange between Christ crucified on the cross and Mary, His mother.  It ventures into that dangerous area of putting words into the mouths of people in the Bible where none are given.

    Both of them get paid beaucoups bucks, too.  And…

    “The writer of this post shoots himself in the foot. “

    I’m pretty sure that Ingrid would take offense at being called a man.  =)

    --
    CS

  • Posted by

    I started reading and got angry.  Then my anger turned to laughing as I realized this is one of the funniest, most ridiculous things I’ve ever read.  After that, my anger which had turned to laughter, turned to sorrow.  I truly feel sorry for believers who find nothing redeeming about new methods and new music, but simply cling to the past and believe it to be holier and more devout.

    I’ve been a youth pastor for the last 12 years, ministering in three different churches and the one question I hear more than ever is: How do we keep teen from leaving our church after they graduate from High School?

    I respond, “Preach the gospel.  Be ready in season and out.  Reprove, rebuke and admonish.  But, do so the way the apostle Paul did...become all things to all people”.  The message never changes.  The methods do.

  • Posted by Peter Hamm

    CS,

    I think she was quoting somebody in the first part, which is the part noted above.

    I find nothing wrong with the song “New Again.” Sorry.

    The post is still very sad, for the reasons Brian states above.

  • Posted by

    If Just as I am was good enough for Paul and Silas then is it good enough for me.

    2000 years… Silly revisionists, that trick is for Barna

  • Posted by

    Peter:

    “I think she was quoting somebody in the first part, which is the part noted above.”

    She said in her post just below the signature, “There are many who crave the kind of church I have described in my letter.”

    “I find nothing wrong with the song “New Again.” Sorry.”

    In this case, I agree with you.  I was more pointing out how there are country musicians who make attempts at bridging the gap into contemporary Christian music.  But it is dangerous to make it a practice of putting thoughts, feelings, or words into people in the Bible when we don’t have them.

    --
    CS

  • Posted by Kurt

    Ouch! The Great Divide

  • Posted by

    In Ezra 3 there is a great illustration about this whole situation.  They’re building the Temple and the older people, who had seen the previous Temple, are crying because the new Temple was no where near as big or decorative.  The younger ones, born in exile, were just excited to see God moving again.

    This is my statement...if “the good ole’ days” were so good, why did God not continue to bless?  The answer, sin.  The older Israelites failed to serve God and were punished, then He began with a new generation...one not so tied to tradition, but tied to God’s movement and blessing.  I’m not accusing people who prefer traditional of sin, I’m just saying something happened somewhere that cost us at least one generation.  I just want to see God move and be a part of it.

  • Posted by

    “I don’t want to sing . . .  the same five notes, over and over and over and over again . . . “

    LOL,
    As I was reading this post, I heard the following conversation going on between my 5 year old and my 9 year old (who both happened to be composing different worship songs at the moment).

    5 year old:  My song has ‘love’ in it 22 times.

    9 year old:  Yeah, well my song has ‘love’ in it more than that.”

  • Posted by

    Naive Opie:

    “They’re building the Temple and the older people, who had seen the previous Temple, are crying because the new Temple was no where near as big or decorative.  The younger ones, born in exile, were just excited to see God moving again.”

    I went looking in Ezra 3 to get some more information, because this sounded like a great explanation for why our churches are changing, and it is always great to find pearls of widsom in the Old Testament.  I read through the chapter and found the following in verses 12 and 13:

    “But many of the priests and Levites and chief of the fathers, who were ancient men, that had seen the first house, when the foundation of this house was laid before their eyes, wept with a loud voice; and many shouted aloud for joy:  So that the people could not discern the noise of the shout of joy from the noise of the weeping of the people: for the people shouted with a loud shout, and the noise was he"ard afar off.”

    I didn’t see any detail about the reason behind their crying, as you explained, and it sounded like some of them were quite excited about the whole thing.  Is there additional commentary in another chapter or book in the Bible to expound upon this idea?

    --
    CS

  • Posted by

    CS

    I looked through several translations and some don’t seem to make the distinction as clearly as others.  It appears that 12(a) is in opposition to vs 11 and the end of vs 12.  Verse 11 speaks of the people being joyful, then there is apparently a “but” which denotes contrast between the joyful crowd in verse 11 and the older leaders in verse 12 (HCSB in particular) which leads to another “but” when the author contrasts them again with the joyful crowd. 

    While I was looking I also noted that this is the interpretation of the Life Application Study Bible.  I could be wrong, but others hold this view also.

    Thanks

  • Posted by

    Naive Opie:

    That is some good hermeneutics in practice, and it makes sense.  I should have backed up to verse 11 in the first place.  Thanks for the explanation.

    --
    CS

  • Posted by rpavich

    Huh,
    I must be the only person who’s commented who thinks that just because God has not struck me dead for my selfishness, and self-centeredness that He doesn’t care about what my motivations are…

    I agree with this post...God deserves far more than we give Him…

    But then again...this seems to be a “Christian liberty” sort of crowd...smile

  • Posted by Hupokrisis

    For a modern translation of Ingrid’s letter, go here:

    http://hupokrisis.wordpress.com/2008/03/11/bring-back-the-holy-old-fashioned-church/

  • Posted by

    Hupokrisis:

    I can appreciate the intent of your retelling of Ingrid’s letter, in trying to spruce it up.  There’s really nothing like good satire.  And that was nothing like good satire.  =)

    --
    CS

  • Posted by Peter Hamm

    I thought it was GREAT satire! You should do a spoof of the typical MMI post. That would be easy, too. Be an equal-opportunity offender.

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