I can say personally that I am part of a blog that exposes abuse problems that have occurred in Calvary Chapels.  The number of people that have been hurt is staggering.  I just posted in another thread about this issue, to to recap briefly, because the CC senior pastors see themselves as Moses, they feel untouchable to criticism even when they are guilty of abuse or immoral behavior. 

If these blogs didn’t exist, then such pastors that hold themelves in untouchable positions, would be beyond accountability.  If the steps of Matthew 18 are upheld, and the CC pastor (for example) rejected the correction, and rejected the steps the elders took, then what is wrong with posting it for the church to see?  Most of these types of blogs are visited only by believers, and many have been helped to recover from abuse where they originally thought they were alone. 

In this particular case of Calvary Chapel, it is due to the pastor seeing himself doctrinally as Moses, and the elders being hirelings rather than true biblical counsel.  And much abuse has resulted from that kind of setup. 

Without these blogs, accountability is beyond the reach of those abused.

It is sad. I just read through the whole email. I don’t think it was right to put the email exchange on his blog. If he was trying to villify this long time family friend, I think it back-fired and just showed a lack of desire for true restoration and reconciliation. I again would recommend to those caught in a church conflict to read “A Tale of Three Kings” by Gene Edwards, and figure out if you are King Saul, David or Absolom. You may think you are doing what is right, but you may be going against God’s annointed leader.

It is my policy to respond only in e-mail form in a positive or reconciliatory way.  I will also request in e-mail certain questions be answered when we have a face to face meeting.  This keeps out of print thins that can be easily twisted and turned into blossip. (Blog-Gossip) I do however write and delete many notes and e-mails for venting and clarification purposes.  When ever appropriate I also have a screener of my notes, this is usually for clarity and tone. 

I believe it is sinful to blog a pastor’s sin or errors (anyone’s for that matter) as you display the information in a broader forum than you can control.  It is gossip and it is heinously used by Satan to fuel fires of resentment.  I do not know of one instance that actually brought about restoration and healing.  It might have brought exposure but not the brokenness on both parties to foster true humility and restoration.  In the instances of Belleview and other situations the blossip goes past exposing for the purpose of restoration into the realm of venting, piling on, interpreting motives of the heart, accusations that have no back-up proof and a general sense of smugness and self righteousness. 

We have seen it on MMI where people accusation as facts only to have them revealed later as having been mistaken. It is not like posting a mistake on a date or a place; those mistakes do not impugn someone’s character or malign someone’s motives.  When we blossip countless numbers of people outside the conflict enter, chime in and add to the ugliness.

Garrett,
Where did the quote you started your last post come from?  I re-read these posts and I did not find it.

Thanks, Brian, I just missed it and wanted to know because I did not read the e-mail from the other church.  I avoid that stuff as I feel it is gossip.

I agree it is a very dangerous statement to make.  I certainly would not want it said of me, nor would I ever stand behind such a statement personally as a pastor.  There is a tenuous balance between respect for a pastor and treating a pastor as just a common person.  On one side the bible clearly teaches we are all important, our gifts do not elevate us over another person.  On the other side we are told to submit to our “Elder’s” not a statement of age but of position.  We are told to give them double honor, pay them well too.  Are they untouchable?  I hope not.  But are they anointed by God to do a specific task?  Absolutely!  Read Ephesians 4 and you will read that these were not merely gifts given to men to fulfill a function in the Body but these were men given to the body for equipping and leading the body. 

It is my contention that the internet (Blogging) will probably not provide the answer to the tenuous balance we seek.  I might be wrong on what is behind the statement by DrBob, but since I have read the book many times I think the statement is really about the person making the accusation not the person being accused.  The book reminds us to check ourselves to make sure we are not kidding or deluding ourselves into thinking we are anointed by God to make accusations against someone else.

Garrett,
No doubt that there are many abuses by pastors who assume too much power and there are many people who find relief in blogging, but I still find it to be gossip.  Even in the spirit of Matthew 18, broadcasting errors and sin across the WWW for anyone and everyone to chime in and to fuel the fire of disgust among people who never chime in but read none the less does not fit the spirit of Matthew 18.  If our goal is to help people recover from spiritual abuse then let’s do that but these blogs are not for that, they are for correcting seemingly wayward pastors. 

In nearly every interaction with bloggers in these circles (exposing sin, correcting false doctrines and, protecting sheep from abusive pastors) I am confronted with angry, bitter people who cannot entertain the possibility of being wrong, who have no accountability for false information posted in the heat of a moment.  Often these are people who are unwilling to forgive or be reconciliatory towards a leader unless they step down and crawl through glass, people whose definition of abuse is exacerbated by misunderstanding and personal baggage.  Let’s face it, I pay the price for other pastor’s sins all the time when my people mistrust or accuse. 

I was in a discussion with a friend who paints houses for a living.  He was spouting off about abusive pastors and such.  I asked him if I showed up at one of his jobs and told him, “I’ve read every expert there is on painting (especially the ones who confirmed what I already knew) and even painted my front room, I would like to run his job and crew because now I am prepared to be a professional painting contractor.” “How would you respond to me,” I asked.  He said, “I would laugh you off the job.” “But what if I was sincere?” I responded.  “Then I would kindly laugh you off the job.” Came his reply. 

This is much what being a pastor is like.  Many people in our church know how we should pastor based upon how someone else did it, on a view of scripture, (usually not a studied view) or an experience they had in leading a bible study or a book they read by a popular author.  But fact of the matter is they have never done it.  They have not invested the hours and hours it takes to become educated, skilled and trained to lead people to Christ.  They have not receives a calling from God to lead a church.  They have not sacrificed family time for hospital visits, finances for small offerings because people didn’t give. They have not over worked themselves because someone said, “no I don’t do that kind of service.” They have not been critiqued for teaching the word by someone who just did not want to obey the word in the first place.  They have not had their sleep taken by an 11:00 pm phone call just to complain the church was too cold on Sunday or to be asked for someone’s phone number.  Their dinners have not gone uneaten or cold because someone called and started the conversation like this, “are you busy?  “I am eating dinner right now,” “well this will only take a minute.” And 35 minutes later you are still on the phone.  When you get off the phone to quickly you are accused of being cold and uncaring. 

It is my contention that these blogs make people feel justified in these expectations and demands.  It is my contention that these blogs give voice to not just opinions but expectations, disappointments and fuel a fiery self righteous pride.  It is my contention that when a non-believer (just one is enough to make it not okay) reads a blog it confirms what they already knew, Christians are stupid and their god is too small.  It is my contention that these blogs might give relief but do not offer real healing.  To justify their existence by some people are helped by them is to me a weak argument because it says, if I set an environment where discontentment is fueled, gossip is expressed and disrespect to pastors is common, but it helps a few people, that’s worth it.  I say find another way. 

I am not yelling as I write but I do have a ton of passion on this subject.  I guess as a pastor who is truly human but not allowed to be but expected to be at the same time I get fired up.  Sorry if I was too human on this or not enough, now I am confused I think I’ll just be borg and join the collective.

Garrett,

Let me say first of all thanks for the thoughtful responses.  Based upon your response I am not sure you fully understood my point or dealt with my objections.  I think this dialog is important so I will respond later when I have a few more minutes and while we disagree I don’t feel tension over the disagreement.  Should you feel that let me know and I will stop the interaction or change my tone and apologize as you are my brother.  God bless

I assume that whatever I write in an e-mail is going to be seen who knows how many people. So outside of unintended grammar and typing errors, I am always positive, or at least busines like and neutral.

What peopel will say about me in a blog, well I cannot control that. In this age of total access I don’t know how any one can. And with the exchanges like the one about Bellvue, you are getting slanted points of view. This whole situation, and I honestly cannot remember it all, has gotten so out of control that it has spilled over into arenas that it has no business being in. At some point there may be legal actions taken because of what is said. But how do you stop it?

Perhaps more important how does this exchange, even with the issue of the Calvary churches referenced above, help the kingdom? Where is the benefit? In the exchange of posts and comment linked, you have the same feeling of over hearing an argument at the enighbors house. Interesting and embarassing at the same time. How does this make us better? I don’t see it.

Garrett,

I do not like to read these blogs but I did take a few minutes to traffic 4 of them.  I wanted to see if my premise on these sites was accurate.  I read the posts and threads that followed and it saddens me because I did not read thoughts from people, who by and large were seeking restoration.  I did not read people who wanted to find healing.  I read people who were seeking information, company (misery loves it) and were sharing one side of stories that could not be verified.  Someone from CA being responded to by someone from Minnesota sharing a story about when they were in Orlando about a church they have not attended in 10 years.  I actually did not read anything redemptive at all. 

Is every blog like this?  I cannot say but I chose through a Google search on Calvary chapels 4 that were all came across the same. I even saw some same names in different blogs, as though one was not enough.  I read accusations and speculations.  So are some questions I have concerning this.  Last time this was discussed I asked the same questions but got no answers.

How is this not gossip? 

Secondly, you and others say this is to bring accountability to Pastors.  Okay, who holds the bloggers accountable?  They get to post one side of the story, do not have to verify facts and can even call names.  Who holds them accountable? 

Finally, should pastors start blog’s to point out how certain members of the church did not tithe, did not use their gifts, did not serve, slept in on Sundays just because they were tired, ignored a sermon that was true to scripture in order to have an affair with a co-worker?  Can a pastor blog this or would that be gossip? 

Leonard

I am not rubberstamping anything bad behavior by any person.  I am saying that blogging is not the answer.  You did not answer my last question you merely responded to it so I’ll rephrase the question. 

Is it wrong for a pastor to expose a person’s sin in a blog or from his pulpit? 

Should a pastor announce that the Lee’s don’t tithe/give but they do make a $700 a month car payment on a new Acura?  Or that the Lee’s marriage is on the rocks because Mr. Lee looks at pornography? Or that the Lee’s are not serving anywhere in the church even though they have gifts and talents the church needs?  Don’t you think this might be wrong?  If so why is it wrong for a pastor to use his pulpit like this but not for a parishioner to create a web based pulpit to announce the shortcomings and sins of the pastor? Let me take it one step further. 

What if the pastor said there will be a meeting and publicized it all over town and said anyone can attend.  Then at the meeting he said. The Lee family has been dishonest.  They claim to be great Christians but you see Mr. Lee lies about his giving and has a problem with power in his home.  He yell’s at his kids and even his wife.  Mr. Lee, when confronted did not respond so let’s all talk about him right here.  Does anyone one here have any past hurt with Mr. Lee?  Has anyone here ever been hurt like Mr. Lee has hurt these dear people?  This is what blogging is like and it is what I was reading when I trafficked some sites today.

By the way the Greek word for gossip simply means to whisper or to slander.  The idea is not truthfulness only.  In other words gossip does not have to be untrue to be gossip.  People can gossip and still tell the truth so just because someone blogs the truth about me does not mean it is not gossip. 

When Paul used names often is was to warn or expose, but he did not invite the rest of the body to add their 2 cents.  He did not say, I warned Peter to his face, have any of you ever had to do that with Peter?  He simply revealed a resolved conflict he and Peter had.  Not the same as blogging.  In other places he used his apostolic authority to call out people but never did he invite others to join in the conversation so he could circulate the letter to other churches in other cities.  He actually gave instructions as to how to handle the situation and then move on. 

You wrote; “There are some who, no doubt, may come to post to talk trash.  There are many others who come to expose SEVERE wrongdoings.  Don’t you see a difference?  It would be sad if you didn’t.”

Do not mistake my resistance to this forum as not feeling for wounded people or seeking to insulate pastors from accountability.  Neither is true but they are intoned in your last response.  I cannot justify this medium because some are helped when I think that this medium is bringing people into the sin of gossip.  Overwhelmingly, more than 95% overwhelmingly the posts I saw were nothing more than cathartic gossip.  Making people feel better but not healing them

Garrett… I haven’t been able to read your entire exchange with Leonard but I did want to comment on something you just said.  Obviously you are a PP poster and would defend that site.  So… following up on your comment above…
“Furthermore your examples would be gossip, for instance, about the person that doesn’t give to the church but has an expensive Acura.  That’s a matter of Christian liberty, and who are we to judge another man’s servant? “
How do you defend (and I want to point out I’m not a defender of Skip H- just using an example) comments made this week on said site making fun of and castigating him for selling his home at a certain price??  You know you may have problems with things he’s done or how he’s run the churches he’s pastored but that kind of talk is neither lovely or of good report.  And that is just a very small example of what goes on over there.  I don’t want to get into a big discussion about the good and bad of PP.  I do think a lot of loving brotherly support takes place for those who participate frequently but when it turns into sarcasm and evil speaking about an individual I don’t know how you can defend that.

Hi Garrett,

First of all your thought about Paul and Corinthian church doesn’t hold water because they all knew about it already, You state that it was expected of them to do the exposure.  Read the Bible there and you will find that in fact they already knew and were boasting about it in their church, as Paul wrote, they were proud.  He was chastising them for their tolerance of sin in their midst and then instructing them what to do. He did not say expose him, he said expel him.  Expel the one who was blatantly sinning and quit being proud of yourselves for letting it go on in the church. 

Second, giving, serving, the use of our gifts, the treatment of our families are not matters of liberty but matters of stewardship and obedience to God.  They can be compared if they are sin.  When I read blogs the range of issues came from embezzlement to not likening the way they were spoken too by a pastor. But the answer is not to blog about them or use any pulpit to harm them. I believe that Pastors have a stricter standard to live by and will be judged by that standard, but I do not believe blogs are God’s instrument for this to happen. 

In Paul’s use of his apostolic office, read the context Galatians 2 of his conversation with Peter and the details he shared one point was that he had the apostolic authority to preach this message and to confront Peter.  Every letter Paul wrote he wrote under the authority of the apostolic office.  That a part of why they begin with, Paul, an apostle of… except for Philippians, 1&2;Thessalonians When he wrote to say some people were needing to get along better or that some people had left the faith, he certainly wrote from the office of an apostle.  Again he never invited people to chime in. 

If a pastor illegally money launders, call the police and report a crime, don’t gossip about it on the internet.  Use the God given authorities we have at our disposal for the handling of a crime. 

As for comparing the guy who does not give, Read 1 john 3, if you have the means to meet a need but do not do it that is sin.  I guess that I would say yes, I can compare them but the problem in the church is that we have these logs stuck in our eyes.