Finally! How refreshing to hear of a pastor and leaders of the church stepping out into the secular culture and being the salt and light we are called to be.  This pastor is on the right track.  I think the fear of of what the so called “righteouss” of the church body might think of a christian leader going into a club, or bar keeps them from seeking and shepherding the lost. 
Jesus hung with the the ones who needed him most.  The crowds that followed Him were prostitutes, liars, tax collectors, drunks, and just regular folks that were caught in a trap of deception and lies resulting in sin.  And He found them, not the other way around. Why? Because He was seeking them.
I hope that more pastors, leaders and christians in general would have the courage to step out, remember that we are called to be “in the world, not of the world”.  Being redeemed doesn’t make us elite, and we are not sinners simply by association. 
When Jesus commanded us to fulfill the Great Comission, He said all the world, that includes everywhere the unsaved are. I don’t remember Him giving any stipulations that we should only go to the reputable establishments. I think He would be very pleased if the rest of us got back to the basics and followed more closely His example.

You mean I can’t just wait for the sinners to come to me, but I have to go out and seek them?  Too bad a lot of Christians seem to feel that way.  When the church decides to raise up and minister to the lost, we will see a great clash of power.  The media is already indignant that Christians are voting their concience, regardless of political party.  That we would dare to bring our values out in public and express our beliefs is unaceptable to the unsaved.  But it is essential to doing God’s work.  Go get em!!!

OK, instead of WWJD it’s WWJB...Where Would Jesus Be?
When He was here where was He? With those that needed Him. If He were here today it would be the same thing, He’d be at the clubs or bars NOT at the first church of the great stained glass window down on Main St. they wouldn’t want him there, too much conviction for them for not doing what they are supposed to be doing...GOING after the lost( or if you prefer “unchurched"). Believe me they ain’t coming to you, you have to go after them and if you go after them with the same mentality that the church has been using since the 50’s don’t bother. You have to realize you are to be like Jesus was, loving, non judgemental, and full of the power of God with signs and miracles.
That’s what the world needs, I’ve had enough of people playing church and having no proof of the power of God inside. We’ve become social clubs with a diluted gospel, I’ve had enough. So go to the clubs, you may find me there, I’ll buy you a drink and we can talk about Jesus. Who knows you may even get me back into church...NOT

later

I am curious.....are you seeking the lost with love in your heart or have you appointed yourself to be a member of God’s police squad?

As a former “clubber” I can assure you that if I saw you in the local bar passing out your cards.....and obviously taking the task upon yourself to judge....I would have been driven even further from Jesus than I was.

Perhaps you would have been more effective sitting in the parking lot with an attitude of service to drive those individuals home who should not be behind the wheel?

Or....later personally and privately talking with your fellow church members you saw there out of love and compassion?????

Coming home and spending some time on your own knees to pray for these people.

Sorry to be critical but this hit a nerve with me.

Diane

i think we’re choosing to be ignorant if we think that the only reason people go into places like this is to hook up with someone or get wasted.  i can’t tell you how many times i and/or my friends have gone to a club or bar and had neither of these things happen - ever.  i fully agree with diane, scooter, and mike m.  i would’ve been turned off had you given me a card like that because you didn’t approach me in private, you embarrassed me, and you didn’t do it in a loving way. 

until i was willing to walk into a bar and enjoy 1 or 2 drinks with co-workers, i had no clout with them, b/c they thought i was just a stuffed-shirt, fundamentalist church-goer who couldn’t possibly understand their lot in life.  i tried to do what i read about Jesus doing, and i went onto their turf.  i had a cocktail (1, mind you, which is not a sin), and we talked about life and their marriages and their kids and they realized i was real.  and after that our relationship was totally different, more open, more honest.  they weren’t afraid to talk to me b/c they knew i wasn’t going to judge them.

some day we’ll realize that guilt-tripping people doesn’t save them.  and scaring them into thinking God might zap them if they do something wrong won’t save them.  God is pleased with us b/c he created us.  we are forgiven for sins past, present, and future.

my non-Christian friends won’t get near our stuffy, unfriendly church buildings.  but they’ll ask me about who Jesus was, and what he meant, and other much more important things at work, during lunch break, out for drinks at a bar or club… i personally could care less about what they think of my church.  i want to make sure that they’re opinion of Christ is as it should be, and Jesus would be hanging out with them, meeting where they are, and loving them into a better life.

Firstly, this weird understanding (of some) that equate drinking with sinfulness is very very american.

I preached across the US earlier this year, and found there to be widepsread condemnation for any christian or pastor who drank (and I am talking about moderation here) alcohol - BUT smoking - well, that was entirely different.  Let’s all puff away after the service.

For me, some of the greatest times of ministry I have ever had, was sitting at a bar with a glass of beer just talking.

Stop being so self righteous and indignant jeff (and others).  Living with Jesus is always more relational than lawful.

Sorry to say - but some of ‘christian
America’ is just nuts.

My Brothers and my Sisters of all the world.  To anyone that may read this message.  There will be no common ground in this world for all to agree upon.  Jesus came to give man an opportunity to get out from under the bondage that this life brings.  He is the true light of the world and all that follow him will walk in that light.  What is the light?  The true light is separation from darkness (sin) and Walking with a clear conscience striving to live a life that clearly sets you aside from the world.  We are in the world but we are not of the world.  Christians go to church at least one day a week.  The other six days they spend talking to those same people that are in the club.  I agree with the one minister that stated “God help us if we have to minister to church folks in the clubs” The true problem is faithfulness.  If the church folks would be faithful and stay out of the club to display that their is a better life in Christ Jesus, I truly believe that after a few trials and tribulations the lost would listen during the week and seek the better life.  Most people go to the club to just relax from the everyday pressures of life.  Christians go to church to praise God for delivering them from the everyday pressures of life.  You choose.  Please, everyone stop making excuses for your own unwillingness to decipline yourself.  It is the untruth to think that people in the club don’t know about Jesus and it is the untruth to keep saying what Jesus would have done, when he is One and belivers are many. Jesus is all over the world.
Let me say this I am not against ministering in the club.  If God leads you to do that then my prayers and support are with you, but there is no way I would send my sheep into the lions den.
Stop using Love as a crutch and help people to change by not participating or condoning ungodly acts.
Christians, separate yourselves in actions and deeds.  Live the life that God has called you to live, a life that men would have no reason to accuse you.  Press for the mark of the higher calling.  The lost will be compelled by your light and change will take place.  God bless all of you and I hope to see you on the other side.

Apostle Bruce

Agree with Diane and her suggested approach.  “Pastorial clubbin” is nothing more than a church sponsored “witchhunt” and would further drive away some of the carnal Christians in the congregation. It’s offensive and totally out of character with any church position!  This tactic would hit CNN tomorrow and bring more fire toward Christians from the unsaved liberals. Being in club parking lots after hours to drive folks home is being sincerely concerned about saving lives, is what Jesus would do and frankly a great evangelistic street ministry.  No better time and place to start saving physical and spiritual lives before it’s too late. If Christians start drinking in bars and clubs what would make us any different than the lost? Why would anyone want to be Christian if we’re no better off than the lost? We’re suppose to be more Christlike and not to conform to this world’s ways! Rom 12.2 Please people let the Holy Spirit continue His job of conviction in bars, clubs and the likes toward those going astray. God Bless

The Bible Says:

According to Mark 14:25, Jesus drank wine when he was on Earth and will drink it again in Heaven.  After instituting the Lord’s Supper, Jesus said, “Assuredly, I say to you, I will no longer drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.” If Jesus didn’t already drink, there would be no need for Him to say “no longer.” If the Father didn’t approve of drinking wine, Jesus would not tell us He would, “… drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

Drunkenness, on the other hand, IS declared a sin in many passages in Scripture. So too are the list of “No-Nos” commonly referred to as the Seven Deadly Sins:  Pride, avarice/greed, envy, wrath/anger, lust, gluttony and sloth. 

For an well-written little summary of the “Seven Deadlies,” visit http://www.whitestonejournal.com/seven/. Click on each of the seven “Vices” for an expanded definition of each.  Helpful for putting the issue of sin into perspective. 

In 1Corinthians 10:23, the Apostle Paul writes, “All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify”.  After an enlightening teaching on the subject of conscience, using food offered to idols” as an example, in Verse 31 Paul continues, “Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God”. 

It is not be helpful to be so full of booze that you swear at the pastors/deacons who show up your club.  It is not very edifying for the pastors/deacons to show up to “bust people for Jesus.”

I Say:

I think we should take inspiration from this pastor and his leaders and start handing out our cards to Christians who eat too much at McDonalds.  Anyone more than twenty pounds overweight who “Supersizes” should be asked to leave the church.

But Seriously Folks:

I’m a pastor.  I drink.  My wife and I think it hospitable to provide the option of wine with dinners we host at home.  (So, apparently, did Jesus who turned water into outstanding wine to make a wedding party more enjoyable for the guests.  John 2:6-10.) I can’t tell you how much ministry and relationship-building has been done over a good meal accompanied by fine wine, or even bad wine as is the case with White Zinfandel. 

My wife and I also go to clubs occasionally.  (We don’t drink to loosen each other up, by-the-way!  Having a glass of wine or two over several hours does make it easier for me to relax, however.) The primary reason we go to those clubs is that we happen like live music.  We especially like to go to clubs where Christian musicians are playing, particularly Christian musicians we know personally.  Both they and the non-Christian members of their bands see that we can drink in moderation, and that we don’t judge them for where they work.  They can see that we truly appreciate their abilities and are willing to spend our money in a way that helps them feed their families.  I love it when we find a way to let it be known to the club/restaurant staff members that we are a pastor and his wife. We’re safe in doing so because we actually tip cocktail waitresses handsomely for a job well done.

My resume is posted at ChurchStaffing.com, filed under “Glutton and winebibber; friend of tax collectors and sinners.”

Dale Gustavson, AKA:  PastorGus

We can all quote scriptures and disagree all day, but all I know is that I thank Jesus that a man of God came and got me from out of my mess!!!  I did come to church on my own accord.  It took the obidiance of a Minister of Jesus Christ to come and reach out to me where I was at!!!

Just “John” AKA:Uncle John
“a follower of Jesus”

I can only assume that the multiple charges levied by the ultra-religious against Jesus of being one who ate and drank with sinners, or a drunkard were not baseless. If so, we can reasonably ascertain that Jesus DID have a glass of wine with friends now and then.  I find Jesus response in Luke 7:34-35 challenging: The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners.”’ But wisdom is proved right by all her children.” On it’s face, it appears that Jesus was concerned about results (success in seeking and saving what was lost) than in methodology.  I read a great book two summers ago which challenged me personally, Michael Simpson’s “Permission Evangelism.” In commenting on Jesus methodologies of evangelizing he remarked (pp. 128)“Christ embraced, honored, and dined with sinners because he had God’s heart… Christ didn’t just hang out with sinners; he initiated contact, enjoyed their presence, accepted their gifts, and publicly defended them.  He let them know that he sympathized with the plight of the impact from their sins, but never condoned those sins, participated in them, or hid his concern.  Christ went to great lengths to let the lost know he understood them, honored them, and had their best interests in mind even to the point of death… Christ went to where the broken, sick, and sinful people could be found.  He did not demand their repentance before he spent time with them.” That last statement has truly challenged me --to become intentional and strategic in befriending my irreligious neighbors, gas station owners, local party store owners, and a whole host of other people whom I’ve become intentional about becoming freinds with. I agree with Michael’s next statement: “As individuals, and as the church, we are called to develop that very same heart.” Frankly, it appears to me that Jesus had a “whatever it takes” attitude towards finding “lost” people and healing hurting people.  Jesus went to where sinners were. and ate and drank with them, yet was “without sin,” then we should be able to develop a an evangelistic lifestyle which engages “sinners” and “lost” people without sinning and getting lostin sin ourselves?  I admitted to those in our outreach service two days ago that, during our Passion of The Christ marketing, I had darkened the door of a local sports bar -packed full of the “target” of our Sun. eve “postmodern” outreach service- to pass out free passes to the movie, but neglected to stay for a beer with the manager for two reasons: 1) I didn’t want to smell like smoke and 2) I didn’t really want anyone I knew seeing me in there or coming out of there.  I regret being more concerned about how I’d explain smelling like smoke, or being seen in or coming out of a bar to someone I knew, than in graciously accepting the manager’s invitation to have a beer with him.  Maybe he didn’t accept my invitation to the movie or one of my services because I didn’t accept his?  Some of the worship team of our “postmodern” service want to go to that bar on karaoke night, join the patrons in singing, and invite them to join them in return on Sun. pms at our place.  What would you do?

As a pastor for 25 years I understand what he is saying. Now as an evangelist I realize that most of what I do is to pump up the saints. As I read about the gift of evangelist I came to understand that we are to bring in the lost so that the pastor can equip the for service. an this was not ment that a traviling preacher should go out and excit the saints. The true evangelist is the person in the church who as Phillp did said come and see.
That pastor as my prayers that those in the church will see what he is trying to say.
Rick Fannie

A few thoughts for Christian drinkers:
Isn’t that pitiful? a 16 year old girl reading this, trying to establish her own boundaries and what Christ would have her to do. People of God, I agree with your understanding of Biblical times that they were not drinking Welch’s grape juice. Yet this must certainly fall in the category that Paul discussed of needlessly offending our weaker brethren, for whom Christ died. I know most people where I live would call it worldly, at best, for a person to drink alcoholic beverages. Most will smile to your face (being at ease in their flesh from the conviction they won’t feel from you’re choosing to behave as they do) and when you leave their circle, will call you a hypocrite. Maybe you’re on a campaign or feel called to teach this neglected truth to your community: it’s OK to drink, just don’t get drunk. But many who get drunk never plan to do so, especially 16 year old Christian girls, who’ve never tasted “the forbidden fruit” of the vine. And there is no need to talk about what those naive Christian boys, out for a social drink with them, will do when they see this incapacitated one in the flower of her innocence lying before them. Maybe you want to prove to yourself that you can drink and not get drunk. Or you’ve swallowed that cankered cup of hemlock that Satan has passed to fledgling Christian witnesses for ages: “if you don’t __, they’ll think you consider yourself to be better than they are; and then you can’t be an effective witness.” Awake to righteousness, keep your light on. You are different, and you have One within you to offer them that is better than they are, Christ Jesus. Honestly examine yourselves if this behavior is truly how Christ would have you to conduct His Father’s business. I trust you will make the right choice.