Go figure.  I heard he was going to write a best selling book called, “Rules Driven” for those whose purposes need guidelines.  I just marvel at the never ending amount of rules we put on people.  No wonder the world thinks Jesus does not matter. 

I experienced everything from hair not touching your collar, no jeans, collared shirts only, no music that was not found in a hymnal… I can only think of a handful of people who still walk with Jesus after all these years.  It is sad that so many people rejected Jesus based upon this form of faith.

I grew up in non-denominational churches, but self-identify as Baptist. Both churches had what could be loosely labeled as dress codes; I used to get into minor fights with my mother because she wouldn’t let me wear pants to the Sunday evening services until high school. I’m still not sure whether the church relaxed a bit or whether Mom did.

In high school, my family switched churches for a variety of reasons and wound up at a slightly more conservative church. This one specifically did have a dress code for performers--skirts had to be knee-length or lower--no pants--and blouses had to be modest. Oh, and interestingly, men up front had to wear ties.

The irritating thing for me was that, by this point, I had developed a deep-seated hatred of skirts and a love of active participation--meaning I was a member of our church’s “orchestra,” and therefore was up front every week. My mother, meanwhile, had to have knee surgery, and rather than dealing with panty hose, wore pants to church for about two months (including up on the platform--she was in the choir). She actually got a couple of compliments in that time stating that she looked better in pants than many of the women in the church looked in skirts.
My parents still attend that church, but I’ve since moved out and started attending a much more casual one. It’s amazing that t-shirts and jeans do not preclude sound theology.

“I raise my hand, bow my...” sorry a little Brooks and Dunn. 

I can probably top most of you in this catagory.  Lets just say my church added a tag line on the kids song: “The B-I-B-L-E”.  at the conclusion - all of the kids would hold out the refrain: “King James!!” just as many of the old hmns ended with the refrain: “Amen”.

My brother-in-law went to a christian school in Michigan that required shirt and tie, but only dress shirts with one left pocket - two pockets violated dress code.  Also, pants were limited to single stitiching on the side seems - no double stitiched kakis.

I could fill about 20 % of your Bandwith with stories from the past.

My story of freedom is in an older post. Thank God I’m free!

I came to Christ in a Baptist church that was fairly grace-oriented. This was in the late 80s early 90s when youth pastors railed against the dangers of secular music. (Maybe they still do?) So as teenagers coming to Christ we were encouraged to throw was deemed secular (meaning that it wasn’t produced by a Christian label). I had a dresser drawer full of cassette tape. I poured them out on the garage floor and smashed them with a four iron.

It was a moderately legalistic move, but it certainly set my thinking in terms of rules and regulations. I did break free after reading through Galatians in my devotional time.

As a pastor, I prefer to teach people to use Spirit-enabled discernment and filter out poor etertainment choices. I hate that I got rid of all of that music. Most of it was crap, but I had some good Billy Joel that I wish I never smashed!

Derek

Written without prejudice:

If it is not too late to say so, i think perhaps the “rules” at the church under this man’s leadership are more a reflection of his own fears, pains or perhaps his own temptations. However, the truth remains that women should be beautifully modest and men should keep their eyes on Christ and their pants up! (Except in the cases where God has given us total freedom with the way he made us.)

I pray every day that my wife will remain the most beautiful attractive woman in the world to me. He has answered yes! because that is the way He wants it too!!! But for those more afraid, less free...i pray that we will not sit in judgement on them, because surely there are people out there who need to be protected and sheltered from temptation within the body of Christ and in the outside world.

So, while people wear what they want to the church i pastor, i keep a careful eye on the hugging to make sure we do it appropriately! None of us should be so free as to think we are beyond the possibility of failure. And we should remember that our freedom came at a tremendous price...paid by Jesus. There are some areas in all our lives where we need to be reminded that we are slaves to Christ and if we love him we obey His commands. Obedience built on the foundational fruit of the Holy Spirit has no rules that can stand against it.

Let me give some food for thought. Legalism is when we take a specific social preference and spiritualize it, going as far as trying to draw the social preference from a Biblical text.

While that is wrong, why is that churches are not “allowed” by many modern church leaders to have social preferences? Why is that schools, workplaces, golf clubs, some restaurants, etc… can have dress codes, but we can’t at church...?

I’m in my 30’s, not a legalist by any standard, I’ve ministered in shorts, jeans and a suit. I just wear whatever fits the culture… but I often wonder why it is not acceptable to “dress up” for church - whatever that looks like in any given culture… Is a “dress code” (whether formal or informal) really a barier for people?

Curious…

[Is a “dress code” (whether formal or informal) really a barier for people?]

YES! here’s one way.

The church I came from was a dressy casual atmosphere, the one I came to was a VERY casual atmosphere. I was dressing in dress shoes, nice dress slacks and a polo shirt or dressy casual shirt. I put people off. So… Now I wear jeans and t-shirts. I had to be the one to change this time…

The prize for 100 should be free Simpson’s Movie Tickets!

I find it interesting that there is a question at all about why a “dress code” is wrong for a church. I came to Christ as a 19 year old man and had no sense of what “church etiquette” was. I am lucky that I was in a church that loved anyone that walked through the doors instead of someone that dressed right.

My question then is where did Jesus ever make a distinction about what someone wore? Didn’t He have a “a woman caught in the act of adultery” thrown in front of Him? She had to be wearing very little or nothing at all. His words were loving not judging.

Isn’t that what the church should strive for? If you start making rules that will exclude someone from that kind of love, based on something as trivial as dress is, in my opinion, contrary to what Jesus taught us to do.

In the end, our dress code was for the girls to carry themselves with modesty. In our youth ministry we ended up teaching our girls to keep the four Bs covered:
Boobs
Belly
Back
Butt

Over the years, our dress code has dissolved and our girls dress in modesty because they have been taught well over the years. I have even heard some older girls tell yonger girls to cover their “Bs”.

Derek

I think the dress code we need to abide by is the dress code that Paul tried to outline to us in many places in his letters to various groups of believers. Our spiritual dress code will far outweigh any physical dress code...if we let it!

But we are sooooooo human trying to be sooooooooo Godly. We often forget that any modesty is designed to keep the modest one safe, holy and beautiful the way God intended. It is not for our convenience.

I once spoke in a large gathering of Salvation Army folk about the high cost of uniformity. When the Army first formed up ranks, it wanted to stand out as being different from the world. Now it seems people dress in uniform to be the same and belong to a church. This is not a slam on the Army, but rather an observation of human nature.
In the sixties hippies with sandals needed a place to worship and belong. Now whole denominations are centred around that theme that we let people belong if they dont dress up. I wonder how they would respond to the tie wearing business man about to commit suicide who happens into a khaki shorts and t-shirt worship.
Be careful we dont let the pendulum of judgement swing back on us! Just love people according to their worth in God’s eyes. No matter how they are dressed. I worked in the inner city of Toronto in the 70’s and some of the clients were hookers and dancers from the bar next door. Their dress code was both imaginitive and tiny. But working in accountability groups we were able to minister to them and as they accepted Christ, they eventual valued themselves enough to change clothes!  Blessings...from the land of snow and ice, where modesty in the winter time is not an issue.

“Women’s Tops Shall Not Reveal.....” - this would knock out most of my group. I do not insist that each female change the way in which they dress before becoming a part of the group. I do, however, try to model and teach about the conditions of the heart which leads to such dress. This is my opinion for what it is worth.....

A group like this would not have been welcomed inside the church walls growing up. Each individual would have been helped in “secret” and away from the walls. While some can argue that this is taking the church to the people..... I would suggest that if individuals are not welcomed inside the walls - are they truly welcomed and accepted as they are any where else? What are the true intentions of those “helping them”???

I hope that makes some sense. Trying to make a quick comment before heading out the door for the day. And yes, I do have more to say at a later point…

While some of the comments made are right on, like teach ALL young people to dress modestly, I think we have gotten a little off track.

This pastor has enforced a dress code on WOMEN only.  He was removed WOMEN from any position of leadership.  He was silenced WOMEN in church.  This is much bigger than about the dress code.  It is about a Baptist minister imposing almost Taliban-like oppression on the women of the church.  I have seen this kind of thing, albeit not quite so blatant, before and it eventually destroys or renders a church useless.

If the published stories are true, it’s time for the pastors in the surrounding churches to speak to this Pastor.  He obviously will not listen to the congregation and they are probably to frightened to fight him.  But other minsters have the authority and the responsibility to speak to him.

One last note:  I grew up in a church where we wore a dress every Sunday.  It was not a “dress code” that’s just the way it was.  However, no one would tell a woman not to wear slacks.  And yes, now as a church leader, I have taught young women how to dress so as to be covered and not a temptation.  But a church “banning” pants etc. has gone way too far.

Todd,

Back to the “how could I improve MMI” - this post is an example.  Give us something to get people stirred up every onc in awile…