5 Warning Signs Your Church is Goin’ Down…
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Tue, October 13, 2009
- Viewed 171
- (15) comments so far
Thom Rainer shares five warning signs that the health of your church may be deteriorating. Check these out and see if any apply to your church...
1. The church has few outwardly focused ministries. Most of the budget dollars in the church are spent on the desires and comforts of church members. The ministry staff spends most of its time taking care of members, with little time to reach out and minister to the community the church is supposed to serve.
2. The dropout rate is increasing. Members are leaving for other churches in the community, or they are leaving the local church completely. A common exit interview theme we heard was a lack of deep biblical teaching and preaching in the church.
3. The church is experiencing conflict over issues of budgets and building. When the focus of church members becomes how the facilities and money can meet their preferences, church health is clearly on the wane.
4. Corporate prayer is minimized. If the church makes prayer a low priority, it makes God a low priority.
5. The pastor has become a chaplain. The church members view the pastor as their personal chaplain, expecting him to be on call for their needs and preferences. When he doesn't make a visit at the expected time, or when he doesn't show up for the Bible class fellowship, he receives criticism. In not a few cases, the pastor has lost his job at that church because he was not omnipresent for the church members.
What do you think? Does your church show signs of unhealthiness? If so, what can you do to turn it around?
And if your church is healthy and you've dealt with any of these problems in the past... what did you use as a remedy?
You can read more of Thom's thoughts here...
Todd
Comments
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Peter Hamm on Tue, October 13, 2009
A couple thoughts.
FIrst off, bravo on number 1! SO true. We make it ALWAYS clear that we, as a church, exist for those who aren’t here yet, and we make people who just want to sit and “pew-sit” pretty uncomfortable.
A word on number 2 though… And I’m going to be harsh here. [A common exit interview theme we heard was a lack of deep biblical teaching and preaching in the church.] In my experience, most (I do NOT exaggerate) of the people I’ve heard say this over the past 4 or 5 years have no interest in loving their neighbor, only in understanding more and more about the Bible (even though they’re not obeying the stuff they already know). Many of these people also are merely tired of the teaching style of the pastor, and use this as a smokescreen. When they get tired of the pastor in the church they leave for, guess what, they go back to the church they said wasn’t “deep enough”. I’m not saying it’s always a smokescreen, but in all honesty, in my experience again, it most always is.
On number 3, if the Leadership Team isn’t unified on more than just budgets and buildings, yes, it’s gonna be a mess. And it can get to us trying to “fix the church up” to “fit our style” so we’re comfy-cozy.
Number 4 is a biggee… and certainly (in all honesty) one I and my church struggle with.
And Number 5 is an extension of the problem that goes through all these, people believing that the church exists for the, not us as the church existing to bless the world with the Gospel.
We have really continued to lift up the value of an outward focus. It permeates everything we preach and teach. Some people leave because they don’t want to “be the church” they just want an hour and 15 minutes of spirituality per week… no more… And that’s okay,a lot of those folks eventually grow, some of them come back and some are making some of the churches around us even more missional than THEY were before. BRAVO on that!
Nice story.
CS on Tue, October 13, 2009
Peter:
I’ve found that with point 2, that there is a great degree of honesty in people leaving, “because they aren’t getting fed.” While there are certainly those who want their heads inflated without getting their hands dirty, I’m finding that more and more people who cite that reason for leaving have legitimate claims.
With all of the fluff that is being passed off in sermons on Sundays, there is only so much people can take of, “10 Ways to Improve Your Sex Life,” and, “The 5 Keys of Inner Peace,” before they say, “When can we hear more about Jesus, please?” Add to it churches that have studies on books like, “The Shack,” instead of Bible studies and people can get pretty emaciated without hearing the Word properly exegeted.
—
CS
Peter Hamm on Tue, October 13, 2009
Again, it’s my experience, and I’m not passing it off as universal fact, but two issues, CS.
1. Sunday morning sermons are not the place to get “fed”. Daily walking in God’s Word is. Sunday morning is a great place for “milk” but if you want to be fed… the average Christian believer (according to a poll I saw recently… maybe here?) has 6 bibles, and is currently looking for one that they’ll like better. (Full disclosure… I have… like… 20 of ‘em… but I’m a pastor, so I’m supposed to?). Get in a great small group of believers (“house church” if you will). WORSHIP on the weekend. GIVE yourself to God, stop asking to be fed (you’re not a freakin’ baby anymore) and FEED YOURSELF!
2. If you leave a church because you’re not being fed AND you are actually DOING the things you’re learning from Scripture and DOING them… bravo for you… I have honestly met zero people in the past five years who fit that description.
But if you’re leaving a church because you’re not being fed and you’re also not loving your neighbor, not digging into your Bible, not CONTRIBUTING to Kingdom activity inside and (especially) outside the walls of the church, and expecting all your knowledge of God and theology to come from the pulpit… shame on you.
Again, it’s my experience that people who “church hop” and say they “weren’t being fed” are using it as a smokescreen. They aren’t even doing the stuff they have learned they should do, and they want to learn more? We are educated way beyond our obedience in Western (USAmerican) Christianity.
Thanks,
Peter
RevEric on Tue, October 13, 2009
Love the article. Couldn’t agree more. Would add a 6th based on my experience at my last church… #6: Few people in the church acknowledge the existence of the first 5 in their own church.
CS on Tue, October 13, 2009
Peter:
You’re right, we should be feeding ourselves on a daily basis. We should be getting into the Word every day. And people who aren’t show other problems. I can’t argue with that.
But, the local church, and in particular the Sunday sermon is what helps shape some of the, “meals,” for the week. And when the, “food,” consists of drive-thru fast food junk that comes prepackaged with a toy, instead of a nourishing meal, pretty soon it gives some people sour stomachs.
There are also many churches that do not teach people how to feed themselves throughout the week. I find the opposite of, “people being educated beyond their obedience,” but so many believers who cannot identify the basic layout of the Bible, the Gospels, or some of the core content of Scripture. And then they get led away with silly doctrines and get confused on what is right and not right.
—
CS
Peter Hamm on Tue, October 13, 2009
CS,
Great discussion, as always… (most fun when we disagree… don’t you agree?)
I think I kinda agree, but… in reference to those you mention who are [so many believers who cannot identify the basic layout of the Bible, the Gospels, or some of the core content of Scripture]... Sorry… lame… their own darned fault. They have six Bibles at home… they have the internet, they have other great books. They need to stop blaming their pastor for their lack of biblical knowledge. They need to get in a group of people on a smaller scale, some who know more, some who know less, and be part of the learning and growing process, not just the bickering about not getting fed…
So… sorry, I ain’t buyin’ it…
Bless you!
Peter
CS on Tue, October 13, 2009
Peter:
I always think it’s fun to have some good, healthy theological debates. And I look forward to the day when I meet you in Heaven and we can go to The Man Himself and get things answered. (And if I haven’t learned how to play guitar yet, you’ll have to lend me a few years of eternity to show me how to play.) =)
This moves in more to the matter of discipleship. I agree that if we have believers in church who have been neglecting their duties over the years in getting educated in how to get plugged into the Bible and expect the sermon to be the only means of getting fed, yes, the fault is primarily with them.
I’m actually talking more of those churches that don’t offer that sort of discipleship and education. Sure, they’re eager to get in the community and get busy with things, but they have no foundations in teaching their folks—especially new believers—in how to read the Bible.
To illustrate why I have such an interest in this topic, the church plant I was at had tons of new believers, but the sermons were, “light,” and avoided tackling the hard or deep matters of the Bible. Even after three years, there was no regular ongoing Bible study and no cohesion in small groups. When I informally put a group together that gave an outline of the Bible, it greatly opened eyes. One person even remarked, “Oh, so that’s why some of the letters in there are red!” *facepalm* Consequently, people also had no discernment and would follow after bad teachers and preachers. But boy were they happy to do things in the community, right or wrong.
—
CS
The other JAN on Tue, October 13, 2009
I don’t buy the not being fed reason either. At least in my experience, most people don’t really say why they are leaving. Usually, it’s because the leadership is trying to steer the church in a direction those individuals don’t want to go or they’ve been personally confronted about a need for change in their own life.
And because they don’t have a scriptural leg to stand on they say “I’m not being fed.” or the other classic “I just can’t get into that worship style.”
Rev Eric on Tue, October 13, 2009
I do want to stick with the topic of the blog of why churches are “going down.” (I’m a stickler for staying on topic. You ought to see me moderate meetings. But I’m getting off topic
...)
There’s a lot of discussion on point #2, people leaving their particular church. At the same time that some churches are dying (let’s face it, they are) other churches are growing. So, and yes this is an over-generalization, some churches seem to be feeding people better than others (or at least meeting their felt needs which is probably more accurate).
People leave churches for lots of reasons; some good and some just plain weird. (One man walked out of my church because I, as the church’s new pastor, don’t sit behind the pulpit when I’m not preaching, I sit in the first pew.) I think wise leadership addresses the valid reasons a person may leave, ie children’s ministry, style of music, Biblical teaching, core values…
Addressing those bring us back to points 1, 3, 4, and 5. First (Point 1) is the church trying to attract new people (which is usually done with milk based sermons to encourage them into the meat based Bible studies). After all, there must be a level of growth just to simply maintain. Point # 3. Is the church using its building to carry out its mission and vision (does the church know its mission and vision, even have one?), 4. Pray Pray Pray (do I really need to say more?), and 5. If the church is truly carrying out a mission of creating new disciples then the pastor has to be more than chaplain. Chaplaincy of course is a valid, worthy, and necessary ministry. Every church and pastor should have a chaplain side. Pastors need to be more than chaplains, we are the men and women who try to empower the people to carry out their church’s mission and vision.
Churches are definitely strange creatures. It’s a lot of tough work to keep one healthy. Part of that is addressing why people are leaving, and just as importantly addressing ways to carry out the Great Commission.
h3 on Tue, October 13, 2009
Peter - I’ve struggled over the issue of milk or meat on Sunday mornings. I started more “seeker” friendly with the messages, but I have moved very far to the “meat” side of things. A few things shaped this, and one was Reggie McNeal’s “Present Future”, which I devoured even before we started the plant. The more I read that book, the more I learn what he actually is saying rather than what I assumed he was saying. One of those things deals with the “purpose” of the Sunday meeting. As we have become more and more outward centric as individuals in our tribe, we’ve needed more meat on Sundays because we are being asked harder questions during “life” - we are “being” the church outside of the church more and more. So, for our tribe, Sunday is about preparing our folks for actual ministry in the course of their actual lives, dealing with serious issues of authenticity - no holds barred.
Of course, I am very mindful that nonbelievers will be in the audience, and I mitigate the language and allusions by using things they are familiar with. So instead of pointing to another biblical passage to demonstrate a point, I’ll grab something from pop-culture. But, we’re eating meat on Sundays and if number 2 comes up as a reason, they are going to be laughed at.
Peter Hamm on Tue, October 13, 2009
CS,
I have to cut this short because we got a lot to deal with at the house today… family yukky stuff…
I will say that this situation you describe [One person even remarked, �Oh, so that�s why some of the letters in there are red!�] would necessitate more basic “milk” teaching, not “meat”...
Eh?
(Sorry I won’t be able to engage this discussion for a few days. Family emergency. Prayers welcome… Today was a pretty bad day… But God is showing up at the eleventh hour of a very difficult situation. Sorry for the hijack…)
Blessings,
Peter
Leonard on Tue, October 13, 2009
I think there are a lot of good reasons to leave a church, mostly they are not used. People will often stay beyond their time (a very real leading of the Spirit) until they have an issue. If a church doesn’t fit, move on.
I don’t ever preach with the primary motive of feeding people. I preach with the primary motive of leading people. So when someone says to me, I am not getting fed, I simply respond, “okay, that is not my goal anyway”
People do get fed, challenged, inspired, convicted and taught, but the goal in my heart is to LEAD.
Biblical illiteracy will never be solved from the pulpit but rather in smaller groups and with skilled teachers and with willing students. If I can lead the majority of our church to take a step towards Christ, his mission in the world and towards loving others well, I am happy.
Our church believes there are three things every church must do at all times.
#1 Reach those who do not know Christ.
#2 Help people, push people, lead people… whatever it takes to get people to grow into maturity. (Churches are filled with people who love to grow but fail to mature)
#3 Build an equip leaders. Our definition of a leader is someone who lives their whole life under the authority of God, making their whole life a matter of intentional stewardship.
CS on Tue, October 13, 2009
Peter:
Prayers coming your way. And you’re right that, “red letters,” does fall under, “milk,” teaching. But that goes back to the premise of, “not being fed,” in the first place.
Leonard:
“I don�t ever preach with the primary motive of feeding people. I preach with the primary motive of leading people. So when someone says to me, I am not getting fed, I simply respond, �okay, that is not my goal anyway�
People do get fed, challenged, inspired, convicted and taught, but the goal in my heart is to LEAD.”
What’s the biblical premise behind this ideology?
—
CS
Michael Schutz on Tue, October 13, 2009
On point #2, I need to echo H3’s comments. For me, the key is this: is “Sunday morning” primarily for believers or “seekers”? Understanding that there will always be both, for me it’s most definitely the former. Therefore, it is the task of the pastor(s) to “feed” the believers with the Word of God so that the people can take that Word with them for the rest of the week.
Now, by feeding with the Word, I don’t mean “5 Steps to a Better Life”, etc. That quickly leads to legalism and moralism. To me, that’s not even spiritual milk. Feeding happens by preaching the Gospel - that Jesus died for your sin, that you are forgiven of that sin, and then the response to that Gospel - that, having received that, the Spirit enables your response to live a life of thankfulness for that free gift. And that changes how you see everything in life - so the rest of the week isn’t viewed as doing things for God, it’s viewed as doing things because God has already done things for you. Some might call that semantics, but I think it’s a critical difference in mindset and theology.
For me, corporate worship is not primarily a place where believers bring their offerings to God. That is part of it, to be sure, but it is primarily the place where God meets His people, brings them His gifts, and then our offerings are twofold - we respond corporately with prayer, song, etc. and then we respond by living life in light of that Gospel. So the Gospel would inform everything we are in the rest of the week - it informs the way we act as a spouse, the way we parent, our faithfulness in doing our jobs, how we serve others, etc..
So then I would say that’s the essence of discipleship, not amassing knowledge. To be sure, I think Biblical literacy is incredibly important. But why am I pursuing Biblical literacy? Is it so that I can be puffed up with that knowledge and feel like I know a lot? Or is it to better understand the depth of the love God has for me in Jesus, which then prompts me to want to know more (“even angels long to look into these things”!!!), and to want to show that same kind of love to others.
For what it’s worth…
Michael.
Josh R on Tue, October 13, 2009
I tend to disagree with the distinction between “Seeker” Services and “believer” services. We all need to be reminded of who Jesus is, and what he has done.. Everything needs to be related back to that.
If that is done the congregation gets fed. If you are not getting fed, rather than blaming the pastor, running away, and leaving your Brother’s and Sisters famished, it is much better to stick around, and to remind everyone that everything is all about Jesus.
The whole “leadership” thing gets overblown. If you are a Christian, praising God and witnessing is something you should do. This behavior is contagious.
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