Are Seminaries Relevant Today?
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, April 13, 2009
- Viewed 60
- (24) comments so far
Here are a couple of the questions and answers:
We hear of some very successful churches led by people without seminary training. Yet nearly all pastoral search committees require an M.Div. How important is seminary training today?
You’re asking somebody who has invested 25 years of his life in seminary training. What I have learned about pastors of large effective churches who have not gone to seminary is that they are avid readers—insatiable in their appetite for understanding life and the world, culture, and the Bible. And a great number of them have done the equivalent of seminary education by seeking out gifted mentors who have a wealth of resources and provide guided studies. So I think many of these people—the ones that last over the long haul—have the characteristics that I’ve just described.
So those who have succeeded in ministry for the long haul without seminary are those few exceptionally driven people who achieve the same level of learning—not just from themselves, but from others they accept guidance from—without the discipline of seminary?
What I often say to people thinking about seminary is that a seminary degree will create a structure of discipline for you to read and study and learn in areas that you would want to learn anyway. Without the structure seminary provides, you may not find the discipline to make it all happen.
I think the danger of doing pastoral ministry without the equivalent of seminary education is in being contemporary without having roots in the history of the church. The history of Bible and theology, for example, turns up every conceivable heresy that we find in our world today. They have surfaced before in an earlier setting. They may be called something else, but in essence there are rarely new heresies. If you have the benefit of church history, it shapes a world view that diffuses the enthusiasm for everything that’s new by tempering it with the truths of God that have been given to us through the Scripture and godly teachers down through the centuries.
(Nice follow up question, by the way!)
So… pastors that do well over the long haul without seminary training are just really self-motivated. I can buy that totally. I know some of them, and this motivation and the appetite for learning and having a great mentor is a quality that each and every one of them has.
Seminary then, is for the people who don’t have the motivation, structure, or discipline to make it happen? Is that really what he meant to say, or am I reading it differently?
The true value he does say that seminary gives is the perspective of church history. I would agree… but this could also be just as easily learned through self study and motivation, could it not?
What’s your take? Is seminary still invaluable? Are the teaching young pastors what they need to know to be effective in local ministry? I’d love to hear your input.
You can read the whole Rev. article here...
Rev. Magazine posted an interesting interview this morning with Leland Eliason, the provost at Bethel Seminary about the relvancy of today's seminaries. They deal with some sensitive subjects; like the changing culture of the church and the seemingly unchanging culture at many of the nation's seminaries; the number of prominent, growing churches that are pastored by non-seminary trained pastors, yet the number of search committees that require a M.Div. for consideration. It's an interesting discussion, as you'll see here...Comments
if you want a Globally Recognized Avatar (the images next to your profile) get them here. Once you sign up, they will displayed on any website that supports them.
Derek Vreeland on Mon, April 13, 2009
I think seminary education is invaluable. I advise anybody considering ministry to consider four years of college and three years of seminary for all of the reasons cited in the article above. I would also add that seminary training is helpful in learning biblical languages. There is nothing more dangerous than a pastor who knows “a little Greek.” Agghhh….
Seminary training gives students the theological tools necessary to rightly exegete the text and the culture. (“Exegete” that is a good seminary word!”) You can learn this on your own, but it is much more of a challenge.
Seminary is also a good crucible for character development. I grew a lot in my two seminary experiences, particularly in my M.Div. experience. I grew up a lot. I would not be who I am today without that three year experience.
Students going into seminary should now that they are not going to learn everything they need to know about theology, leadership, church administration, people skills, etc. A good seminary does provide all the answers as much as it provides the right tools and values to make a person effective in ministry.
BTW, the Village Church just posted a blog about seminary here: http://hv.thevillagechurch.net/blog/theology/?p=58&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=Feed2tweet+Auto-Tweet
Derek
Lori on Mon, April 13, 2009
Being a late in life, seminary student, I would agree with Derek. However, I agree with Todd that many of the seminaries are out of date. Theology is relatively timeless (contemporary issues should be addressed) as is Greek and Hebrew, but church ministry, apologetics, philosophy etc. are ever changing and many seminaries don’t keep up. Also, some our best and/or largest seminaries are taking steps towards fundamentalism instead of remaining true to their identity. Many of these issues affected which seminary I chose.
Do you need a seminary degree? No. But like all education, it opens doors, gives you information in a systematic process of learning and helps you make connections that can last a lifetime.
And Todd I don’t think he was saying seminary is for the unmotivated. I think he was saying that self-teaching oneself is tedious and difficult and time often gets in the way. Not to mention, ancient Greek is hard to learn on your own. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/wink.gif
David Richardson on Mon, April 13, 2009
All I know is my own personal experience: seminary was very helpful for me, especially in the areas of systematic theology and church history.
Also, I was able to interact with seasoned veterans of ministry who were great sources of wise counsel.
Can you succeed in ministry without going to seminary? Sure. Of course you can. Plenty of guys have already done it.
But for me, it was an enriching experience that opened my eyes, enhanced my ministry, and blessed my life.
Dave on Mon, April 13, 2009
I’ve seen some seminary grads who couldn’t lead a congregation out of a wet paper bag and I’ve seen some leaders who wear very restrictive “blinders” because they have not been exposed to the breadth of theology issues that have been wrestled with historically and are currently a challenge in different cultures. I went straight into the pastorate after Bible College and waited 20 years before going back for my Masters. The things I learned in Graduate School made me a BETTER pastor but did not generate essential competencies. I conclude that Lifelong Learning is essential, the structure of formal curricula and schedule may be helpful.
Joe Johnson on Mon, April 13, 2009
Perhaps if churches want M.Divs, they should consider contributing financially to the education of their own up-and-coming potential church officers and missionaries. Unfortunately, this puts a tremendous—and sometimes unrealistic, given what these same churches will pay—demand for graduate education.
I could not agree more with Derek’s comments. Nothing can compare to the depth and challenge of a seminary education (on campus, not online, which is self-directed reading). The community, contacts, and out of class discussions are more rewarding than any self-directed study could ever be. And any person who hopes to teach others about the Bible should be able to navigate it, exegete it, and have a foundation on how this can and has been done.
The problem can be that seminaries create places of deep and thoughtful interaction that offer seminarians a haven of support and exploration that most will never find again. This can turn the local church into a lonely place by comparison. Seminary is the greatest and worst gift we can offer to our clergy. It will develop and minister to them in unbelievable ways. It will also bankrupt, exhaust and isolate them.
cameyg on Mon, April 13, 2009
Timing here is funny given what I just posted on my blog this morning… “They Can’t Teach That At Seminary” - based off my time there.
My husband is almost finished with his MDiv. And while I know he is grateful for what he is learning at his time in seminary… I also know that he values even more what he is learning as the Lawn Pastor & Wal-Mart Pastor. He is also on staff w/me at our current church body as an intern. I could say more but I’ll refrain…
Life’s moments are the classroom whether or not that includes seminary or not.
Peter Hamm on Mon, April 13, 2009
i wish I’d gone to seminary, but don’t suffer in my work because I didn’t… so go figure…
Brian L. on Mon, April 13, 2009
I’m a second-career bi-vocational pastor. I was called into ministry in my mid-30’s and had 4 children by then and have 5 now.
Seminary was simply out of the question - none within 3 or 4 states from where I lived (was ready to relocate if necessary, however), financially impossible (would have had to work full-time just to feed my family, as well as costs for school), and simply not enough time (I would have had to be a part-time student if I had any desire to be part of my family!).
I was able to get the classes I needed for licensing and ordination through distance education offered by my denomination. It still took me the better part of 7 years, but I was able to be pastoring while I was taking classes, given my earlier experiences in other ministry settings.
I missed out on a lot by not being able to go to seminary, there’s no doubt. I don’t even know “a little Greek” (although I know some that are quite large - nyuck, nyuck!).
Therefore I’m grateful to God for the tons of resources I can get through various sources, especially the mentors around me from various churches and denominations.
Pat on Mon, April 13, 2009
I enjoyed my time in seminary and would do it all over again if I had to. I graduated in ‘06 and felt it was very relevant. My particular seminary (Ashland) had a big emphasis on spiritual formation which has been invaluable. While I don’t think seminary is for everyone, I think it can still be relevant if the seminaries purpose to stay abreast of the times and bring out some of the current issues and trends in the classroom.
While I do believe one can learn discipline in seminary or any institute of higher learning, one has to embrace it. There are many who only go through the rigor while in school just so they can get by. As soon as they’re done meeting requirements, any lessons learned about discipline and structure go out the window. So, the student plays a role in this.
And yes, I have seen pastors who can dance circles around those with degrees. So again, it’s all about what the student does with the education they receive. Degrees do not automatically add up to a more qualified candidate.
Mike on Mon, April 13, 2009
I think it is vitally important to evaluate what you’re looking for when you are choosing a seminary. The danger of the article is that it lends itself to lumping all seminaries into one homogeneous group. In reality, they are all very different and, while they offer essential core instruction, the emphasis and structure of the curriculum can vary widely. If a student is looking for “real-life” experiences, seminaries exist that base a large portion of their study load on practical ministry experience.
The reality, though, is that no matter how excellent your seminary experience is, within 3 - 5 years almost everything you learn will need significant updating. I think the value of the seminary education/experience is whether a student uses it as a springboard for continued learning or has the unrealistic expectation that those three years will prepare them for an entire career in an ever-changing (hopefully) work.
Kirk on Mon, April 13, 2009
Seminary was an awesome experience for me and it did provide the structure to be able to study. As an undergrad I was very much in the self directed study mode due to constant demands of the United States Marine Corps. I finally, after 10 years, graduated from Liberty University with a BS in psychology. Then to go back and do my MDiv “in house” at Bethel Seminary was a breath of fresh air - knowing when something was due and where and being able to interact with people face to face - the structure was great. Now I’m looking for a DMin program to again provide a structure for the studies I want to do anyway. The value of seminary for me was brought home in an OT class by a fellow student. His wife had asked him what he was learning in seminary and after thinking about it, he replied, “I’m learning to be careful with the Word of God.”
Pat on Mon, April 13, 2009
“I think the value of the seminary education/experience is whether a student uses it as a springboard for continued learning or has the unrealistic expectation that those three years will prepare them for an entire career in an ever-changing (hopefully) work.”
Mike, well said!
Chris Meirose on Mon, April 13, 2009
For the record I’m a Bethel Sem grad (’07), and know Dr. Eliason personally.
I agree with Dr. Eliason completely on this. Very few of us pastors are Mark Driscoll or Bill Hybels. I love to read, and love to study, but there is no way I would ever have been exposed to the diverse wealth of knowledge that Bethel Seminary afforded me. Professors who were missionaries just a year before in Malaysia. Preaching professors who lead incredible churches (they serve as adjunct profs - guys like Bob Merritt of Eagle Brook Church). Church History from guy as old as Martin Luther (ok, that’s a joke, my church history profs were amazing, one was just the year before an editor for Christianity Today’s Christian History & Biography magazine). But you get the point. I was constantly amazed by the wealth and depth of knowledge of my professors, and their passion for the Gospel and equipping us to reach our culture. My seminary profs invested in me, and I am a far better person and minister because of it.
Certainly there are seminaries that are toilets that need to be flushed. Certainly seminary can have people who are just jumping through the hoops to get the job. This is why discernment is needed in choosing a good school, and whether school is for you.
Andy on Mon, April 13, 2009
My experience with Seminary wasn’t so great. I decided it was time even though I was traveling for work and had a newborn at home. I signed up for an extension course where the Prof. came down to my city and taught classes. The prof that came was a very knowlegable guy, nice in personality, and easy to get a long with.
However, when it came to his class things were a bit different. His notes were written on parchment resembling the Dead Sea Scrolls, and he basically read them to us. He had even written his jokes into his notes. He was also the only one who laughed at his jokes. The class was History of Christianity 1 which covered from about 100 years before Chirst through the Reformation.
The tests were a whole other matter. The Prof had a standard text book and then he had written his own book & Study guide for the class (both of which we purchased directly from him). The problem with this is that the Prof and the other text book author didn’t agree on ANYTHING! One guy said so and so was responsible for xyz and then the prof said no it was someone else completely and the dates are different! Talk about frustration, the tests had both sets of information on them. WHY?
I decided that I would wait to take any more Seminary classes untill I did some more research into schools and I actually had the time. Since then I have placed myself under a very knowledgable and experienced mentor.
I know that not having a MDiv or equivalent has hurt my resume and closed some doors to churches for me, but I’m not too upset about it. The churches that have closed the door were “us four no more” in their philosophy anyways. So for now I’ll be content ministering on a lay level. You don’t have to have a Seminary degree to minister or be a minister. But I sure see how it could help.
Jim on Mon, April 13, 2009
Seminary can’t prepare one to be an effective minister in any form of ministry, anymore than going to medical school can make one a good physician. What Seminary can do it is to help establish a foundation on which to build-language study, theological study, as well as relationship building. What each student does with this foundation speaks to one’s personality and desire to grow.
After graduating from Ashland in 1980, I have found that many of those whom I graduated with are no longer in ministry, and many others have not grown beyond the lessons they learned thirty years ago. Yet, there are others who continue to be curious and active students, and they continue to learn long beyond their Seminary experience. For some, this learning process will open them up to questioning their Seminary’s positions on certain issues, which isn’t always bad. Yet, for others, it may mean they become more fundamental in their beliefs, which isn’t a bad thing either, and it has been my spiritual journey. If God is directing our footsteps, and He’s completing what He has started, then no one’s Seminary experience will be the same as some one else’s experience. I for one found my experience to be one of the best educational experiences I’ve had, and that included the relationships with professors and fellow students. I wouldn’t trade that experience for all of the tea that my friends are going to drop on the steps of our County Court House this Wednesday.
Page 1 of 2 pages 1 2 >
Post a Comment