Church: We’d Like Your Government Stimulus Check
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Wed, May 21, 2008
- Viewed 65
- (29) comments so far
I don’t know… this to me sounds a little tacky. Does it hit anyone else this way as well? Aren’t there better ways to teach stewardship than begging for people’s stimulus check? Like maybe moving people toward better stewardship of ALL they have, not just a one time bonus?
I’m probably totally wrong on this, but that’s how it hit me initially. I’d love your thoughts.
One church has asked its members to consider donating all or part of their government stimulus checks to a fund they have set up for charitable use. Congregants can have their money go to a battered women shelter, or a meal fund for needy members.
"Remember people who are less fortunate than you during this time that the government is blessing us," said Nancy McLean, president of Joseph's House. "I think it's a program that every church should endorse."
Another church's pastor, John Odom, pastor of Starmount Presbyterian Church in Greensboro, said he asked his congregation to consider donating their checks to the church's capital campaign, which will fund a sanctuary renovation and help hire a new staff member. Odom said donating stimulus checks to the church would double as an investment in the local market, fulfilling the government's economy-boosting intentions.
Comments
if you want a Globally Recognized Avatar (the images next to your profile) get them here. Once you sign up, they will displayed on any website that supports them.
Bruce Gerencser on Thu, May 22, 2008
Leonard,
Sorry friend I don’t need your pity nor your psycho-analysis. You don’t know me, never met me, have never been to where I live….......how can you possibly make the statements you made? SO, you can get off your horse now and tie him to the hitching post.
You assume my point of view comes from a love of money. I do love money and so do you, and so does every American. What I spent on groceries today at Meijer’s is more than 3 months wages for some people in a country where they make a 1.00 a day.
I constantly struggle with my place in the world and my affluence (even though household income wise I am in the bottom 20% of this country). I struggle with want vs. need.
I write from the vantage point of being a pastor, being on the “inside” I have watched churches sit on piles of money while berating people for more. I have watched churches that have large staffs, large buildings, large programs, and then barely spend 10% on real work outside the Church. It is hard not to view the American Church as a big con game.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Peter,
Good post and I think it reflects how things should be. A sense of commitment and ownership is vitally important. It is EASY to send money. It is HARD to sweat and labor.
Bruce
Leonard on Thu, May 22, 2008
Bruce,
I am not saying you love money and I apologize if that is what I communicated. what I am saying is you are jaded (you admitted this already) and that jaded experience is not helping you. You come across here as one who is wounded still.
Your sweeping statements about the church are just that. They hold little weight behind the jaded tone. I am sad for this.
No psychoanalysis, no pity, just sadness. That all.
Bruce Gerencser on Thu, May 22, 2008
I am a cynic. I suspect I have been to a “few” (probably a lot) more Churches than you. I have done some crisis intervention for a few pastors. Preached a good number of special meetings in my younger years and in recent years have visited/attended over 100 Churches.
I am “jaded” about fund raising. I find most of it unbiblical and I have found Churches wasted tremendous amounts of money on staff/buildings/programs. (all of which do little to reach the lost and do acts of mercy and justice)
Why can’t you grant, that just maybe, I might have a little bit of insight on this issue? If I come of negative or judgmental perhaps it is because it is a dire issue.
My wife and I were talking on the way to the store….......I told her we do not need Church reform. We need to dismantle and start over. (in America in the 21st century) We keep trying to fix what can’t be fixed.
It is all about the money….............
Bruce
Leonard on Thu, May 22, 2008
Bruce,
I have read your blog and remember you from before as well. Can see you are a cynic and jaded, I am not. I do concede to you that have some insight but it is jaded. I have literally preached all over this country and all over my city and in many countries of the world. I am not naive too the abuses churches have made.
Your cynicism has caused you to chide, complain, criticize and castigate pastors and leaders. It is not objective and considering there are several hundred thousand churches in this world your experience is not a standard I can say is as thorough as you, and because of your self admitted cynicism and jaded view, I would not be wise in trusting it either.
Our little church plant here has sent well over 100,000 to do great things in this world. Tsunami Relief, Hurricane Relief, mobile clinic and a base clinic in Kashmir India, Building Sewing Centers for abused women, Providing several thousand injections to stop HIV from being transmitted form mother to child just to name a few. We have help start other churches and built churches in other countries of the world and here at home we see people come to Christ nearly every week. We have rehabs inner city schools, provide care for teachers and taken on projects for families in crisis (loss of a child, serious health issues etc.)
Your cynicism and sweeping accusations are not accurate about us and about hundreds upon hundreds of churches I know personally.
Peter Hamm on Thu, May 22, 2008
[...and I have found Churches wasted tremendous amounts of money on staff/buildings/programs…]
But I dispute the idea that money spent on staff, buildings or programs is necessarily wasted. Every dollar spent on my salary is money spent on outreach. None of it is wasted. Every penny spent on our building was money spent on reaching our community with the Gospel. None of it is spent frivolously. Every dime spent on our programs is money spent on reaching people and changing lives. It is all well spent.
Bruce Gerencser on Thu, May 22, 2008
Now reading a blog that’s a good way to get to know someone http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
Look, I’ll grant that you see me a certain way because of how I write. I suspect your judgment is inaccurate, but I will allow that you see me in that light.
I also know that my experiences are that….......mine. On what other experiences would you like me to judge? My point is, I have a larger pool to judge from than many. That doesn’t make my judgments infallible, but they shouldn’t be dismissed (as you are doing) either.
Everyone can give their anecdotal stories. Great. Good stuff. But, if you can’t see that Evangelicalism, as a whole, is in bad shape, and that it is money obsessed, then there is no way for us to have a fruitful discussion. You see a little sickness here and there, I see a diseased body in need of a resurrection.
You mention hundreds and hundreds of Churches. Great. Unfortunately…....there are tens of thousands of Churches. Their inaction and fatness far outweigh the work of the hundreds.
Tomorrow, I will read the Religion Page in our local paper. What will I find? Will I read of a Church giving 90% of their budget to outreach? Will I read of large amounts of money being sent for relief in China or Myanmar? Will I read about Churches sharing their buildings with other denominations or merging together to be more financially effective?
No of course not. I will read of dozens of little sectarian groups doing their “religion as usual stuff.” Dinners. Programs. Seminars. VBS. Concerts. Revivals. (anything that keeps what we are doing in the Church house)
Near where I live a Church is building a fellowship hall. Not sure where the money came from…....doesn’t matter. When I drive by there on Sunday there are 3-5 cars in the parking lot. No need for a fellowship hall….......but…....need is not how we judge things….......we want…......and so we do. This is repeated all over the place. Instead of giving the money, away we spend it on the perpetuation of the Church structure and system.
This is my last comment here. I realize I sound a bit like I am “defending” self (and I am a bit) but I want to make sure that my point is understood.
Jud on Thu, May 22, 2008
I’m in agreement with Bruce and Ricky.
Let’s get REAL here people.
The modern church that is so obsessed with breaking from tradition and avoiding anything that could be CLOSE to legalism has totally avoided the tradition of MONEY.
I believe in giving generously but I do not believe in tithing. I believe we are instructed to COMPENSATE Church workers for the work they are doing in the church. When they attend 6-8 conferences a year, pursue publishing deals, tab the church for daily breakfast and lunch “meetings” and ask for sabbaticals… it is no longer a non- for profit deal going down.
Let’s face it, now more than ever before people (and lots of them) are making a GOOD living of of the Gospel.
In an age where we are trying to dismantle any possible barrier between the Lost and our savior. People making a living off of ministry is perhaps the last SACRED COW !!
It’s not as if we didn’t support all of these people the Gospel would wither away. On the contrary we’d ALL be ministers of the Gospel again.
WANTED: Bi-Vocational Church workers!!!
Now, go ahead and unload on me for “being angry, “having a critical spirit” and so forth.
It’s time for a revolution.
Eric Joppa on Thu, May 22, 2008
Ok, I know I am hopping in late and that I have been lurking and watching the exchange, but I need to respond to some things being said…
Bruce, Jud, Ricky…
It sounds like your issue is not with churches handling money, but with the command of God regarding tithing. If you are not a part of a local church, not obeying scripture as to what God wants you to do with your money, than why are you arguing with people who are?
It seems to me that you need to speak with the Lord about your belief in tithing, and how the church uses tithes to further the Kingdom.
I am troubled that it is so easy for you to tell people how they should handle tithes, or how they miss-handle them or even special offerings, and yet you do not offer yourself.
Bruce,
You write about a church that is putting up a fellowship hall, and you say that as you “drive by” you only see 5-6 cars in the lot and assume that means no need for a fellowship hall. You say that after ranting about how Leonard can’t possibly know anything about from exchanging with you here and your comments on a blog.
You are basically saying it is ok to tell someone not to judge with only some info if incomplete info, and that you, however are allowed to judge an entire church based on a drive by. I surmise that you have never even set foot in the church you are judging.
Hi Kettle, this is the Pot…Your Black.
Oh and Jud,
What exactly is the money tradition?
-E
Bruce Gerencser on Thu, May 22, 2008
Eric,
No, I don’t believe in tithing. It is the only old testament teaching many evangelicals believe in . Wonder why? I do believe we are to give and give graciously. I don’t need a Church to tell me where to give nor do I think the Church is the conduit for all charitable giving. Nor do I think just because I church decides to add staff/build a building/start a program/etc/etc that I am obligated to support it with my money.
I paid my dues in the coal mines of Independent/Southern Baptist Churches that starve their ministers, all the while sitting on CD’s on deposit at the local bank.
I am quite free with my money but I don’t think the Church deserves what they ask for.
As to the nearby Church…......no I haven’t been there. They are theologically far far far away from me. BUT, they do have a BIG building sitting next to the fellowship hall they are building. They are nice people. Good people. I know some of them.
I suspect at 2-3 people per car they run 10-15 people. There is NO Church that size that needs a fellowship hall (or any other major building project.)
Fact is, many building projects have little to do with need. Oh we can manufacture need. I was pretty good at it. Share the vision. Preach the vision. Spin the vision. Tell everyone God is in it. Bingo….......keep them checks coming.
Before jumping my case again….........let’s try squaring a bit of this discussion with the practice/function of the early Church. Make your case for expensive building programs from Scripture. And please. please, please don’t tell me God deserves the very best. He doesn’t care. He wants us.
I need to get out of this discussion http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif I want to keep what little Christianity I have left.
Thank you for taking time to read my post.
jud on Thu, May 22, 2008
What I mean is the thrust of the Church Growth Movement is to separate the church from tradition (I have no problem with the Church being separated from extra Biblical tradition) in order to appeal to the sensibilities and perceptions of the culture. But uhuh… nope… not the one about money and how much of it the church needs/ wants. At least the perception if you don’t believe the church has that problem.
Probably the biggest problem most of my “unchurched” neighbors have with the church is over the issue of MONEY.
I came out of several mega type churches from the CG model. Each had budgets in the millions and almost all of that was tied up in SALARIES, BUILDINGS, MARKETING and AQUISITIONS.
That my friends is not called stewardship… that is called a franchise.
You can’t talk about the BLOOD, repentance or even mention the Book of Revelation (to name a few) out of concern for the sensitivity of the “seeker” but as I said before the need of BIG money to operate such behemoths is as I said before… the sacred cow.
Oh, and Church Growth? What about the fastest growing church in the World…. The underground church in China. Much of the credit goes to the humility and efficiency of the BI-VO pastor. And the idea that Church doesn’t have to be MASSIVE or tricked out to change the World.
Peter Hamm on Thu, May 22, 2008
Uh…
Most of us out here are not going to 6-8 conferences or pursuing book deals, folks. We’re doing the work of the Gospel in the church, and by the way, a lot of those guys with the book deals have inspired me, exhorted me, and helped me in ways I’ll never be able to thank them for.
We have a lot of people upset and jaded about the church here. I wish you’d come be part of mine. It might help.
Brian on Tue, May 27, 2008
A few weeks ago John Piper’s used his blog to challenge our thinking on and use of these stimulus checks. No direct pleas, or manipulation. Check it out at desiringgod.org Search “stimulus checks.”
Heather DeDona on Sat, June 14, 2008
Well, I stumbled across this conversation and wanted to add some clarification. I am the person who opened up my big mouth in Sunday School and started all of this stuff. I am frm Oak Ridge presbyterian and the article that is cited is one that I was interviewed for. Of course the media couldn’t include everything so I will explain.
We were discussing the parable of the Ten Minas and someone brought up the checks. They said “wouldn’t it be nice if people did something for good with their money instead of buying TVs like the media is suggesting.” So I said, “Well, OK-let’s just do it.” So we started the Stimulus Movement. It had nothing to do with the pastor (who is awesome byt the way) or the church itself. It was born out of a room full of people wanting to follow the teachings of Christ a little more closely rather than just talking about it. My church’s hand is not out-they get NONE of the money. We have chosen several charities to donate money to but we are also going to be donating goods and we are going to be volunteering our time as well. This is so not about the money. It is about thinking about this money in a different way. There are plenty of people within our church who need every penny of that check but they are excited about giving of their time and talents to make someone else’s life a little better. I don’t think that is tacky at all. It has helped me grow spirtually and I am closer to God because of my involvement. I want to be a better person. The church in my mind does not have walls, the church is anywhere I fellowship with another child of God. I think you would find my church an amazing place to be as there is serious devotion to missions. I would love for you to visit. God Bless
Nancy Ackles on Mon, June 16, 2008
I’m a new person in the community, attending Heather’s church. I wasn’t present when the Sunday School class came up with the stimulus movement idea, but I certainly have appreciated the way it is being moved forward. The pastor reported the class’s idea and said, “If you need to use your whole check to pay bills, well pay bills. If you can’t give money, maybe you can give an idea, and if you can’t give any idea, give a prayer.” At a fellowship dinner, members were invited to explain their ideas of how to use the money collected, and they ranged from helping one chronically ill person through to the many organizations in which members are working to serve the local community and others around the world. Just listening to the various presentations was encouraging, informative and uplifting. We were all invited to pray and then help make the decisions about how to allocate money received. I haven’t felt pressured. I experience this all as God at work in our midst.
Page 2 of 2 pages < 1 2
Post a Comment