Community is “Substantially Burdened by the Operations of the Church”
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Thu, May 08, 2008
- Viewed 58
- (17) comments so far
Here’s a satellite shot of the church. You can see how ‘crowded’ the neighborhood is:
What should the church do? (I know, first-hand, that the church has reached out to the township and is working as best they can to find a solution). How far should they push?
Give me a break. My friends at NorthRidge Church near Detroit are now waiting for a court ruling to see whether or not they can do any further expansion on their current facility and property. The church facility sits on 79 acres, is bordered by a four lane highway, and is anything but an eye-sore. Yet township officials say that the community is 'substantially burdened by the operations of the church'.
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Ed Gillies on Thu, May 08, 2008
This is a problem that seems to grow worse each year as municipalities grow more resistant to granting churches building permits since churches do not pay property taxes. We have been in litigation with the local township for several years over this same matter. We won at the Federal District Court level but the ruling was overturned at the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals. We have filed a brief with the Supreme Court and now are awaiting word from them as to whether or not they will hear the case. The RLUPA law that was passed during the Clinton Administration seems to protect churches from this type of thing happening but the law has never been challenged at the Supreme Court level. Please pray that our case is heard. It could benefit hundreds of other churches who face the same dilemma.
david rudd on Thu, May 08, 2008
this sounds somewhat similar to the circumstances that launched Seacoast (SC) into the multi-site model.
Wouldn’t it be great if some of our large suburban churches started moving back into Urban areas and using the empty church buildings there, instead of investing millions to build new suburb churches?!?!
Daniel on Thu, May 08, 2008
David, I like the way you think.
bishopdave on Thu, May 08, 2008
David Rudd,
You have presented the first argument about multi-site that makes sense to me. If it’s about getting Pastor Celebrity’s reputation expanded, no. If multi-site is about reaching into enemy territory, YES>by all means it would be a good thing.
David Rudd on Thu, May 08, 2008
BishopDave & Daniel,
Thanks. I should point out that these thoughts certainly don’t originate with me. I think lots of multi-site people are doing it for the right reasons.
This story particularly resonates with me because I’ve been in downtown Detroit (gotta go through it to see the Tigers) and am always struck with the potential beauty of the place if only people would be willing to reinvest there!
I know that in my suburban church, we’ve talked often about the possibility of sending a team to reinvigorate another church…
Peter Hamm on Thu, May 08, 2008
Is it possible that too many churches have moved into communities and NOT been “good neighbors” and that’s why people respond this way when a church moves in or wants to expand, even if THAT church HAS been a good neighbor?
Moving multisites into the cities… GREAT idea!
Rex Barrett on Thu, May 08, 2008
@ David. This is exactly what we are doing in Oklahoma City. Instead of moving into the suburbs we are just reentering the urban areas.
God is doing great things as we just commit to transforming our communities instead of growing our churches.
Use the new measure of growth, stories of transformation!
Brian on Thu, May 08, 2008
I think I’m looking at the correct piece of land but…why wouldn’t they be allowed to build on their land?
John Cheatham on Thu, May 08, 2008
Just like David, this story reminds me of SCCC (Seacoast Community Church). I heard its story through the Leadership Network podcast. My church is looking at this method and I’ve found the Multi-Site Exposed 2008 Conference at theresurgence.com very helpful - http://theresurgence.com/conferences/multi-site_exposed_2008
Ron Geyer on Thu, May 08, 2008
I grew up in a church that owned property near downtown Atlanta that, 30 years ago, was worth about $4.5 million. As part of their ministry to the community, they figured out how much of the taxes ordinarily assessed on such property went for police and fire protection and paid it.
What began as a way of protecting churches from the control of government (tax exemption) has become a subsidy to which churches feel entitled. Though I don’t want to see tax exemption go away for all reasons it exists, I think I witness is stronger when we help carry our neighbors burdens rather than ask them to carry us.
DanielR on Thu, May 08, 2008
Apparently there was a consent judgment limiting the size of the buildings and number of parking spaces the church can have on the land, issued prior to RLUIPA being enacted. They are requesting that judgment be set aside. It appears the prior judgment may violate RLUIPA.
Some churches have gone so far as litigation and some of this litigation is still pending. I’ve heard of some church expansion being limited due to traffic and/or noise concerns but shouldn’t be a problem here with that big a piece of land and a 4 lane highway right there. Township officials said the area near the church “consists of a residential district which is substantially burdened by the operations of the church.” Sounds like traffic might be the concern. Maybe they could build another exit from the church out onto the highway?
Randy Ehle on Thu, May 08, 2008
I’m not real excited about a church suing…well, just about anyone. It seems to me there may be a number of better options. I guess it’s hard to say, though, since we don’t know what they’re trying to do - buy more land? Put up more buildings? Add parking? (One comment I found said they’re trying to add 3,200 spaces…to the six lots they already have!)
Shannon on Fri, May 09, 2008
This isn’t a problem….it is an opportunity! An opportunity to go mulit-site! I would venture to guess that if they did a zip code search of their attendees…..they could quickly locate several potential off-site campuses that they could launch. I just returned from Leadership Networks Coast to Coast Multi-Site Conference in Dallas last week and it was awesome! There are lots of great books on doing mulit-ste….I highly recommend “The Multi-site Church Revolution” by Geoff Surratt.
Ricky on Mon, May 12, 2008
“This is a problem that seems to grow worse each year as municipalities grow more resistant to granting churches building permits since churches do not pay property taxes.”
But why shouldn’t “churches” pay property taxes? The antiquated exemption causes nothing but animosity from businesses, mostly small, who are required to pay.
Thanks Constantine…for nothing.
Jason Stone on Tue, May 13, 2008
If the church can afford it and the state would allow it build a new off ramp coming into the property and expand the parking lot on the back side as a new entrance. This would kill the traffic in the neighborhood and allow the church to expand. After looking at the homes near by I can see they are not small themselves. It’s funny that argument is burden on community and that community seems to be defined by things as larger than the church. The church’s footprint seems to be smaller than that of the neighborhood’s, just from looking at the map. It would appear that it’s the near by home owners who, with their over sized homes and huge driveways and intensive landscaping is actually making a larger burden for the community at large to manage. Perhaps the church could build a parking deck verses adding more spread out parking sites? that could be located toward the back near the intersection of the highway and road crossing. If done right it would save the grounds, not be a burden on community and that would also be a great place for a new exit ramp and lane that runs the length of the property line into the church’s parking system.
Just an Idea and I wish you both, community and church the best of luck.
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