“Conflict: Ask Ken”: How Do I Deal With Bad Job References (that Aren’
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Thu, November 18, 2004
- Viewed 64
- (8) comments so far
The Lord led us to stay at the church. They hired a new youth minister and he left in a year. The pastor came to my husband and repented and told him, "You're the man for this job for good. He told him that he felt this from the Lord.� Originally, he said he would hire him full time again – which he reneged, saying the church couldn't afford it at the time because they needed to hire ME as a bookkeeper as well. So like dummies, I took the job and he took his job part-time, with a promise that it would be "TEMPORARY". Our temporary situation lasted over 2 years. I got pregnant a year later. They fired me because they thought it was in our "best interests" In the meantime, we were living in our parents garage with our 2 children and 1 baby on the way. We never whined or cried about it. I did cry when they let me go and explained that this would hurt us, in which I was advised that we should have been more careful. (Our last born, Joshua, was not planned - nor was the one prior. Both are "miracle" babies.) Let me just add that we do NOT regret any of our children, they are all a blessing from the Lord. Between November 2003 and May 2004 my husband attempted several times, unsuccessfully to get our pastor to give us an approximate date of when he would place him on staff "full-time".
Finally end of May the pastor confessed that he had no intention of hiring my husband full-time. He could give no reason except for personality conflicts. What conflicts we don't know, he never would say when asked. To fill in the blanks in 18 months time we managed to grow the group of 18 (before we left the 1st time it was at 40 kids) to 60's. The ministry was thriving, the body loved us as well as the board. The only problems we had was that we had outgrown our building and could not keep up with the follow-up due to time constraints. After prayerful consideration, we decided to move on in ministry - there was no where else to go at the church. There is so much that I would not even be able to begin to tell you that happened to us on the in between parts. Things that I am embarrassed that we took all these years to grasp. We started in ministry at the church and were so young. We were married there, I grew up there and our children were born there.
Our problem is this:Â We have had to move out of state due to our reputations being trashed. We couldn't survive in that expensive area on what we were being paid - no one could... and we had no debt. We have interviewed at a few churches since and the pastor is blacklisting us. He is spewing venom, very bitter. He has told many that my husband "demanded" he hire him full time - which never happened. He advised that we were having money problems - not true. He charged that we didn't have submissive spirits to authority because he didn't hear from God that it was time for us to move on. What do we do? How can my husband possibly get another ministry job without a good reference. The pastor has advised many in the church not to speak to us or our families (both of our parents were board members who actually left the church due to other pastoral abuse and manipulations - much of it I am unaware of the details. We did get the blame for this too, but what people don't understand is that they stayed in the church somewhat because of us. We begged them to stick it out and not get offended).
Through all of this, we still love the pastors and the body. We are hurt, but God will heal. We don't want to go back, we are glad to be set free of the bondage we suffered there. We just don't know how and where to go from here. We have kept silent about the pastor's lies and we won't speak against him; however, we don't know how to answer when asked about how we left, when interviewed. By the way, my husband had a job offer - and we told the Sr. Pastor what the situation was honestly - and then he called our former pastor for a reference. He was very manipulative in his responses to the questions and it helped to close that door. How could a person who would keep you at a church on staff for 7 years collectively have nothing nice to say? I have known ungodly, unchurched people who care more for the future of a family than that. We are not sure even where to begin now? Please advise! Thank you so much for your time!
Mrs. Jacobs
To Monday Morning Insight Readers: Proverbs 18:17 says, “the one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.� I fully understand that when I respond to a given question I am only hearing one side of the story. But I can only respond to the facts that I have received. Hence, accepting this picture as reality, these are my thoughts.
Mrs. Jacobs,
I am sorry for what has happened. Here are some options for you to consider:
1. Contact someone whom you trust and the Sr. pastor respects. Tell him/her what has been going on. Ask that person to speak to the Sr. pastor on your behalf. See if a resolution to his ongoing negative remarks can be worked out.
2. Request a meeting with the church board to explain what has been happening. Request that to the extent the pastor is making false statements about your husband, he stop and desist.
3. Privately contact people at your former church, who valued your husband's work and who you trust - parents, people who were on the board, youth committee members, staff members who have since moved on, even former teens. Explain the situation in confidence. Ask if they would serve as references. Create a list of up to a half-dozen if you can. Do not include the Sr. pastor. A future church may not call on those on the list, but should they call the Sr. pastor, this large number of witnesses can help counter-balance it.
4. Are you and your husband currently members of a local church? If not, join a church and get involved so you can develop a new set of references altogether as a faithful church volunteer.
5. If the board refuses to meet with you as described in #2 above, request Christian arbitration, as specified in I Cor. 6:5.
6. Lastly, if the church board refuses your requests in #2 and #5, consider contacting a Christian employment lawyer in FL. I am NOT suggesting legal action. But you need to find out what the state law says about career ending references. Generally speaking, many secular employers do not provide evaluations of former employees for fear of being sued. My thought is, if what the pastor (and church) is doing is illegal, e.g. making false statements, a letter to the board from a lawyer informing them that they are breaking the law (and hence, opening themselves up to an expensive lawsuit if they don't stop) may bring some accountability. (One respondent to an earlier posting noted that "in California it is against the law to ‘bad mouth' a former employee when giving a reference check"). God has ordained government for our protection (Ro. 13:1-7, Acts 25:11). If the church refuses to handle this matter in a Biblical fashion, then looking to other God-ordained resources to resolve this issue can be legitimate. At the very least, even if you go no further than this letter, the church will explicitly be informed that they are engaging in illegal practices. (If they still refuse to change their ways, that puts them and the pastor in the conflicted position of encouraging others to pursue morality in their lives). Keep in mind, any time you raise the stakes, there may be a negative reaction. In your situation, however, I am not sure what more harm the pastor could do to you. This option, however, is really the path of last resort. Given the comparable timeframes that are involved, there may be wisdom in re-establishing yourself in a local church and pursuing option #4 above.
I wish you and your husband well.
Ken
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Ken Newberger, an experienced church conflict resolution specialist, earned his Th.M. from Dallas Theological Seminary, has ten years senior pastoral experience, and is in the dissertation phase for his Ph.D. in Conflict Analysis and Resolution at Nova Southeastern University, one of only two accredited doctoral programs of its kind in the United States. If your church needs individualized help, please visit Ken's website or call 301-253-8877.
To submit a question and connect with Ken, click here.
© 2004 Kenneth C. Newberger
Here’s this week’s “Conflict: Ask Ken” question… Dear Ken, My husband worked for the church I grew up in for 7 years as the youth minister. After 3 yrs, a woman in the church (on staff and a church elder) negatively influenced the Sr. Pastor away from him by making false accusations and in result, our names were dragged through the mud. It led us to step out of the ministry the first time. (His wife shared with me in private they were going to fire him and advised me NOT to tell my husband)…
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Comments
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Bernie Dehler on Mon, November 22, 2004
Sounds like good advice—better than doing nothing.
...Bernie
http://www.FreeGoodNews.com
Don on Tue, November 23, 2004
Overall, Ken’s suggestions are plausible responses, though they seem to be a little more “legally oriented” than aimed at healing.
Given the nature of your situation, I have my doubts that suggestions 1 or 2 are going to be very realistic…or end up being profitable. Yes, reconciliation is biblical…IF you can persuade the other party to participate. If the church board has already tolerated this kind of behavior…don’t hold your breath that they will make things right at this stage.
Suggestion 4 is good, as far as throwing yourself into another ministry. But you mostly need time to heal. Find a church home where staff are loved and valued…and healthy bibical resolution is brought to church conflicts.
Out of them all, I would personally focus on suggestion 3. There are undoubtedly good people who valued your ministry. Some probably have held leadership positions. Let them be your resources.
And move on.
Your life and character after the fact…and the way you talk about the church and pastor you left…will speak volumes. So will your former church and pastor’s behavior.
It is the broken-hearted who find God’s love and redemptive grace so overwhelmingly sufficient.
Matthew 12-17-21 (Amplified Bible):
This was in fulfillment of what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah,
“Behold, My Servant Whom I have chosen, My Beloved in and with Whom My soul is well pleased and has found its delight.
I will put My Spirit upon Him, and He shall proclaim and show forth justice to the nations.
He will not strive or wrangle or cry out loudly; nor will anyone hear His voice in the streets;
A bruised reed He will not break, and a smoldering (dimly burning) wick He will not quench, till He brings justice and a just cause to victory.
And in and on His name will the Gentiles (the peoples outside of Israel) set their hopes.”
He is your true delight. He is your defender. He is too tender to allow you to be broken off completely. On him is all your hope.
There will be a brighter tomorrow.
Skip on Tue, November 23, 2004
The only real solution to this situation is to ask for a copy of the annual review that SHOULD HAVE BEEN COMPLETED BY A SENIOR STAFF PERSON.
It will clarify if there were performance issues that were documented, if ample time to correct them was given and if an exit interview was conducted.
Lacking that you would assume that your performance was at least adequate, since no documentation was created otherwise.
This situation is a clear warning to both sides of this issue…and it happens all too often in churches. A policy for annual performance review and corrective action must be in place in every church, no matter how large or small.
Church leadership needs to review and document staff performance.
Church staff members need to know how their ministry efforts are progressing ESPECIALLY if they serve only at the pleasure of the pastor i.e. they can be terminated at any time.
Ezra on Tue, November 23, 2004
I wish that my colleagues still in church settings would work carefully to make sure that before they accept a position, firm evaluation criteria are in place and everyone is in understanding about what these things mean.
If God is truly leading to a place, He will provide protection to you while you are there. If the church balks, then lovingly provide examples of what you need. It may be a case of mentoring your own pastor into how he should supervise you.
Also: get it written down.
Also: never, ever, ever, sign a letter of resignation under duress (i.e. resign today for the end of the month or we’ll fire you right now). Always consult a lawyer first about your rights as an employee - not of a church, but of a nonprofit organization.
My heart bleeds for those trapped in horrible ministry places by those wolves in sheep’s clothing.
Harry Miller on Sun, November 28, 2004
God is in charge of all the circumstances and He uses them to bring us to faith: “All things work together for good to them that love God to them that are called according to His purpose for whom He did foreknow He also did predestinate to be conformed into the image of His Son that He might be the firstborn among many breathren.” This is part of the walk of Jesus that we are called to follow in His steps. Jesus was rejected by the churches of His day. They plotted to kill Him and He had to hide. His bretheren thought He was beside Himself and did not believe in Him and He did not go up to the feast with them and told the believers “who is my mother and who is my brethren but those who hear the Word of God and do it they are my mother and brethren.” Jesus did his preaching in the churches for the churches needed to get saved. It is no different today. The church will let you down, but Jesus will never let you down. Jesus said “follow Me.” Jesus said “believe in Me.” Remember our fellowship is with Jesus Christ. Even the closest fell away, but Jesus said to Peter “when you are converted strengthen your brethren.” And Jesus even said on the cross “My God My God why has thou forsaken Me?” When He took on our sins as the lamb of God even so we are called not only to teach all the things He commanded us, but also to demonstrate by taking up our cross and following Him uniting with Jesus and honoring our vows in the Holy Marriage Covenant with God. These are growing pains, but we can look to Jesus for comfort for He went through all of these things and His Words give us revelation and comfort as we experience the konanea with Him. Jesus said that “if we don’t hate our mother and brethren compared to our love for Him we cannot be his disciple” and yet when the test comes and we are persecuted so often we feel the dispare. Because we want it to be different for us than it was for Jesus. It won’t be.
JIMMY on Thu, December 02, 2004
mrs jacobs,
my heart bleeds for you. as a youth minister myself, and someone who has been forced out of a ministry….i can relate and feel your pain. here’s what i did to
“pick up the remains of my shattered heart”.
hope these tips help…
1. regain your composure
remember, your only going to represent yourself as a strong, qualified, “i can overcome anything” candidate..
2. do not be afraid to be the one to tell your church prospects about the conflict. God has not given us a spirit of fear. any good church will recognize your gifts, and talents, and has no right to hold you to the past. If they are a smart, they will look harder into your fruit.
3. you were exactly right. how can a person be on staff, grow a ministry, and be there 7 years and the sr.pastor not have a single good thing to say about you. if a church can be so DENSE to not see that as a character/bitterness problem with your sr. pastor. that’s not a church you want to lock arms with.
4. warn the church ahead of time. when the church hears it from you first that “hey, this pastor is not going to give me a glowing reccomendation BECASUE…...”
then that softens the blow. and if the pastor has wisdom, he will take that to heart.
5. if you have board members that loved you and people in the church. give them as refereances as well. if 10 people are saying good things about you and 1 is not. churches should be able to see the wisdom
Hope this helps.
God bless in your endeavors.
jimmy
Mike on Thu, December 02, 2004
Dear Mrs. Jacobs.
It is ashamed what has happend to you both but I want to assure you that this is happening all the time. As a former Youth Pastor and Pastor who was fired twice in less than 2 years, I learned quicker than you did in your seven years. A few words of advice. What denomination are you. As a Southern Baptist who fire more than any other group, I went to the local association and got no help but unwise counsel. The local guy is supported by the churches who fired me and he was worried about getting his funds cut. Then I went as Ken said, joined another church and went to my former Pastor who was another church and told him what had taken place. He called the Pastor who was trashing me and tried to help but got none. I then used my former Pastor as my reference because He knew me the best and also had much respect in our convention. I then went to the state convention where they folks like Ken to help and they became my references. I had never had a problem since with New churches. I took the bad Pastor out of the loop. Another thing is this, there are many Pastors and staff that have this venom. I learned that if one did not hire me because or what He learned from the former Pastor who spewed the venom then I did not want to work for this new guy anyway because He may be like the one I just left. God bless, If I can help, I know some great guys in FL who would be glad to help you. Mike in SC
RevBill on Thu, December 02, 2004
Often it is a “He said this/He said that” situation, which is a no-win situation for the dismissed servant (you are, first & foremost, a SERVANT, secondarily an employee - if the Church would remember this, there would be much less destruction of human beings in ministry.) Having not been called to otherwise mutually acceptable pastorates because of a similar situation (my former pastor accused me of everything but being a seriel killer - at least, that I am AWARE of!), my advice is: cherish the memories, nurture the relationships you want to hold onto, remove the offenders from the loop, shake the dust from your feet and MOVE ON - in peace, joy and confidence in your calling. This is God’s way of taking you new places, literally as well as spiritually, by using what Satan intended as harm. God bless!
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