Ed Young, Jr. on “Church Pirates”
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Tue, May 27, 2008
- Viewed 104
- (100) comments so far
For your response: Have you ever had a church pirate on your staff? Have you ever been a church pirate? Let me know your thoughts on this subject!
Ed Young, Jr. recently recorded this at a staff meeting at Fellowship Church in Dallas. What is a 'church pirate'? It is a person who serves on a church staff who suddenly decides to leave the church and start a new church 'plant' in the same city. Sounds like Ed may have been burned on this one a time or two. Take a look and let me know what you think.
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Ricky on Tue, May 27, 2008
While I am unable to view or read Young’s remarks, I can almost say without equivocation that Ed, Jr. is a victim of the system he so steadfastly defends.
When I was in bible school, the “Rule,” which was made up by some very insecure “pastors,” demanded a minimum distance of a 50-mile radius where a “pirate” was “allowed” to plant an new work.
Of course, no one ever questioned the fact that those who made the “Rule” had started their respective little fiefdoms well within the 50-mile radius.
I’m sure Ed, Jr. has some friends who are “pirates,” who, like himself, are more concerned with turf wars than spreading the Gospel.
Steve Wulf on Tue, May 27, 2008
I watched this video on Friday and this topic has been on my mind ever since. Although I appreciate Ed’s comments and I somewhat understand them and even agree with them on some levels, I do have a few concerns.
First, his statements were very broad and blanket like. I don’t like blanket statements because I don’t think they paint the whole picture. For example, I know of many very influential even “mega” churches whose beginnings don’t stray too far from Ed’s message.
Second, the term “stealing sheep” really bothers me because people aren’t property, and they certainly aren’t property of a particular church. I don’t believe this terminology values the people that God has placed within our ministries, and perhaps that is why it’s easy for these “church pirates” to come in.
Third, Instead of looking at pastor’s as pirates and people as sheep or property, perhaps those of us as senior pastors, ought to model a better attitude of giving in these kinds of situations.
I recently left a church to start one, and although I am starting the church over an hour a way from where I left, my senior pastor encouraged me to talk to as many people as I wanted to ask them to come with me. Needless to say, we didn’t see eye to eye on many things and our leadership styles and philosophies of ministries are very different, but he realizes that having an attitude of giving will effect him positively and not negatively.
Lastly, I’m sure that there are churches in Grapevine, TX that feel the very same way about Ed Young and would refer to him as a “church pirate” of which I don’t believe for a second that he is. Let’s face it, we all want to build our churches on the lost, but in reality, there are always going to be people who come from other churches to be a part of ours…and I’’m not altogether sure that is bad.
Camey on Tue, May 27, 2008
I thought the same thing about Ed when I watched the video yesterday. This is one of those topics I know about from a couple of different positions having been through church splits years ago, and then being approached about new church start here where we live currently.
Hubby and I could not agree with starting a new church where the individuals were wanting us to. We knew the hurt and division it would cause… not might cause - would cause. We recently got a new senior pastor at the church we’ve been serving at for the last three years. We totally support him and pray for him and his family daily.
This is where it gets confusing for some.. Is my husband looking for a church body to pastor? Absolutely. Could that mean starting a church at some point? If the Lord so leads…. It won’t be here in G-town though. And we’re good with that.
For the record… I am thankful for Fellowship Church. I can remember when it was first started in the place where I had gone to movies at. They were doing a different kind of church than any thing that city had ever seen before. I am grateful for all the lives that have been changed as a result. While I was never a member of that particular fellowship.. we are all a part of the same Church.
Peter Hamm on Tue, May 27, 2008
This is also why it’s KEY to hire staff who are totally sold out to your church’s vision and strategy. Otherwise, they come up with their own vision and strategy and move down the street.
If you are planting a church that seems designed to grow by siphoning off members from the church you left… I agree with Ed, that is NOT God’s will.
kent on Tue, May 27, 2008
We live in a highly commericalized church environment where people bolt for the new thing, or the service which touches them or where they can get feed or whatever. Ed is just dealing with a church culture where success is seen primarily in the size of congregation, and if you can jump start you thing with 3000 well there you are.
But if you are not, in Ed’s words, a “major church” or a “phenomenal church” then this may not be your problem.
Clayton Bell on Tue, May 27, 2008
I’m sure there are tons of people who, with malicious intent, enter into churches with the idea of taking people away.
But what I’ve run into, as a young leader with young leader friends, are pastors who aren’t sure how to release the young leaders they’ve preached a vision to and raised up. Many of those leaders aren’t supposed to be second-chairs their whole life.
How do we know the difference between a subversive leader and an ill-equipped top leader? It’s got to be case by case, and can’t be as sweeping as it’s depicted here.
Peter Hamm on Tue, May 27, 2008
Clayton writes
[How do we know the difference between a subversive leader and an ill-equipped top leader? It’s got to be case by case, and can’t be as sweeping as it’s depicted here.]
A young leader who leaves a church and starts one down the road that either by design or circumstance pulls a significant number of people out of the church he left is subversive and, imho, not doing what God called him to do, no matter how much he claims.
The young leader who goes to another town (hopefully one that is woefully lacking in the kind of church he is going to plant) and has success planting a church that reaches people who are un-churched more than siphoning from other churches is not. Yes there will always be some who bolt for the “new thing”, but if you’re designing from scratch to NOT pull people from other churches… that is, imho, the right way to go about it.
Paul on Tue, May 27, 2008
Interesting. Based on the title, I though the article was going to be about churches that “pirate” Christians from other churches. I guess “church pirates” come in a variety of flavors.
Mark on Tue, May 27, 2008
I’m glad to see Ed Young be honest and admit that he sees church as a profit making corporation, which it is, and that anyone of his “employees” who deprives him of his rightful “profits” should be in jail just as in the corporate world. If you would like another glaring example of christian profit and greed just open your bible and notice the copyright notice inside the front cover. Copywriting the word of God? How have Christians sunk so low?
There may actually be some true believers in Jesus out there, but if so, there aren’t very many. The only way to expose these profit making wolves in minister’s clothing is to stop giving money to the church, all churches. Give your tithes instead directly to the poor as Jesus commanded. When the cash flow dries up, then we will see who really believes and who is just in it for the money.
Dave Douglas on Tue, May 27, 2008
My response may be somewhat different than most. I’m bothered by ministries who feel they “own” the church, or own the people in them. We are not a pastor’s flock, nor are we characterized in the bible as called to loyalty to one individual, other than Christ. In fact, Christ refers to the church as “my sheep”, not the pastor’s. The church is an organism, and if I recall my basic biology class, organisms grow - often by cells dividing. It weems a bit egotistical for us to believe God can only work through our church, or in our way of thinking what the church is. We tend to forget that the church is more than just the local body of believers - although that group has a vital function as one. But, the church exists to fulfill the will of the Father, which is to reach into the world with the gospel message. Division in churches many times will present the opportunity in communities to reach more people than the one “mother” church may ever reach. Jesus Christ is head of the church. If he stirs in the hearts of people to move a different direction than the church is currently going, who are we to question it? Perhaps, the need exists because the leadership isn’t leading people in the first place very well….food for thought.
Peter Hamm on Tue, May 27, 2008
I almost forgot to say this…
“we are the pirates we don’t do anything
we just stay at home, and lie around
and if you ask us, to do anything
we’ll just tell you, we don’t do anything”
Nothing like Cucumber humor on a Tuesday morning…
Jud on Tue, May 27, 2008
What i am seeing today is that the church that best appeals to the flesh gets the biggest crowds. Not always… but most of the time.
Get in your Bible and read about the great falling away and the apostasy that will be emblematic of the Church in the Last Days.
Are we already there? I think so.
ken Williams on Tue, May 27, 2008
Years ago in 1991 I was dismissed from a pastorate by my pastor of a church under our ministry. My Pastor fired me without cause, lied about moving me and my family to that church, made many promises none of which were kept and I was unceremoniously dumped from my position.
I had the church board’s support but because he was the founding pastor of that church he overode their support of me, it was at this time I knew I could no longer remain a member so after enduring the pain, anger, & disappointment of how my leader fired me & through much prayer I knew it was time for me and my family to leave.
When we left only one other family in our church knew about it & they only knew becasue we were close friends, we only told them because of our relationship & not because we wanted them to follow us.
When we left my ex-pastor thought I was going to tell everyone why we were leaving but he needed not worry as a preachers kid I knew better than to “split” the church and take people with me that weren’t mine.
It was six months before anyone knew (other than our friends who we told) that we were no longer serving in that pastorate or no longer members of our home church. To this day I thank God that when we left we left right, having forgiven my ex-pastor and walked away without being a “church pirate.”
Since April of 1991, my wife and I have pastored for 17 years glorifying God every step of the way.
adam mclane on Tue, May 27, 2008
My respect for Ed Young just went way down. This whole thing with him sitting down and “talking to his people” is completely his own soap box and not biblical at all. Notice he didn’t even have a Bible near him? Notice he used about 250 “Christian-ese” terms but no Scriptural support?
He referenced people who had been with him for 20 years moving on and planting churches. And then he calls them disloyal? Maybe they were recognizing that the Sprit was moving them to be more of a leader than Ed was going to allow?
I hope that he apologized to his congregation for this outburst.
Bob on Tue, May 27, 2008
I’ve been a Christian for over 30-years and 13 of those years as a full-time pastor. My experience working for several mega-churches have given me the impression of several senior pastors that seem to be like Ed. What I call “spin doctors.” Someone that can make anything look to their favor. They whimper to their congregation looking for pity in a round about way. They are so worried about the size of “their kingdom” that they have lost sight of God’s kingdom. They will tell you they are not worried about numbers in public, but in private they stress their staff out about numeric growth. They come across one way in public and a total different way towards their staff.
I don’t believe you can “steal” people. People are not something we should look at with an owner’s mentality. People have the freedom make their own decisions and sometimes they decide to move on. Unless they are being deceived or lured away from the Lord Jesus Christ, then it’s really up to them what Shepard they desire to follow. Jesus is the Shepard that we as pastors should make sure we point people to follow not any man. We are to care for His sheep… which is temporary as He wills, not as we will.
I’m sure many of sheep have strayed into Ed’s pen from other local churches.
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