Emergent Leader Responds: We are NOT a threat to the Gospel
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Fri, April 01, 2005
- Viewed 202
- (9) comments so far
Al Mohler: “The worldview of postmodernism -- complete with an epistemology that denies the possibility of or need for propositional truth -- affords the movement an opportunity to hop, skip and jump throughout the Bible and the history Christian thought in order to take whatever pieces they want from one theology and attach them, like doctrinal post-it notes, to whatever picture they would want to draw.” Article
A threat to the Gospel? OUCH!!!! That hurts. I have devoted the last 25 years to the Good Story - how about letting me respond to that last paragraph, as one who was raised a Baptist and has also been identified with the emerging church . . .
1. How can we deny the possibility or need for propositional truth? - the Bible is loaded with it such as “God is love” and “Your word is truth”(Jn. 17:17) and “all who live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted” These propostions are true. I know. I have EXPERIENCED them and they would be true even if i had not experienced them. I think certain Baptist leaders should put down their philosophy books and go to the streets where the gospel is being shared in truth by emerging church people. Where is this straw man, anyway? How about someone offer a $100 reward for the person that comes forward and says what the critics accuse them of? If there is someone out there, and I dont think there it, i want to have a word with them - they are causing a lot of grief and confusion, even though they are helping to support the evangelical book publishing industry.
2. I was taught at Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary in a storytelling class by Southern Baptist missionary John Langston that the way to avoid hopping and skipping all over the Bible was to take a more NARRATIVE view of the Scriptures in their entirety as the unfolding story of God. And not only should we read the Scriptures in their written genre (80% is narrative story) but also we should COMMUNICATE it as story also. I was a pastor who preached propositional 3 point sermons in churches for 7 years. And then I switched to a more storytelling narrative style of reading and communicating the bible. And someone please correct me if i am wrong, but I feel I am doing far less jumping around and piecemealing Scripture then when I was preaching propositionally.
BTW - a layman showed me a card file of 30 years of preaching he had listened to, each card representing a sermon, filed under the book of the Bible it came from. He was amused that there was hardly anything from Ecclesiastes and a WHOLE LOT of Romans.
Who's skipping???? Really?
3. The worldview of postmodernism is something we are responding to in a prophetic way. It is not something we are accommodating our theology to. For me to argue in the same vein, I would have to say:
“Since the traditional church was born in the modern Enlightenment period, and therefore being founded on humanism, we can safely say that all people in traditional churches are therefore ATHEISTS.”
But to say that would be to argue from theory - if we asked real people, we would get a different answer. No- Our forefathers brought good news for modern man, and now we are bringing good news to postmodern people. And postmodern people are hearing the gospel and becoming part of the body of Christ.
Carson, quoted in the article, is right on a few points:
- the emerging church has been reactive in protesting.
This is true, but many young people have experience spiritual abuse at the hands of power greedy ministers who went unchecked under the old system - and these young people may take a few years to get healed. But i can assure you, healing comes, and more advanced stages of emerging church are moving forward rather than looking back. PPPPPLLLEEEEEEAAAAAASSSSSSEEEEEE dont spank us just because of one or two angry groups who give us a bad name. If we wanted, we could pick one or two bad apples in your basket too.
- the emerging church has had “a reductionistic understanding of modernism”
yes - very true - but now Carson is likewise treating the postmodern period in the same manner.
- “they give the impression of dismissing” Christianity.“
Thats possible when we are not careful to show that we are only dismissing the baggage and appendages that have outgrown their use. We preach Jesus. Not a cultural form of religion and not a particular methodology perfected in the 1950's. We preach Jesus. Did I say that already? We preach Jesus! But we also must ask the question- should we bring everything from the old model of church into the next paradigm or are there somethings we need to dismiss? I bet Carson's church has dismissed a few things - I am glad the Southern Baptists dismissed their 'biblical' support of slavery upon which they were founded (and are profoundly apologetic).
- ”an inappropriate dismissal of confessional Christianity.?“
Maybe, but there has been a rediscovery of ancient Christianity, monastic forms, Celtic Christianity and other gems that were ignored during our fascination with the Enlightenment.
He also argues that the Emerging Church Movement frequently fails to use Scripture as the normative standard of truth and instead appeals to tradition.
I have found the opposite - that in my training I am using the Scriptures MUCH MORE than I used to do as an evangelical pastor and much more than my teachers from Seminary did (Bro. Thom Wolf excepted - in fact he modelled it to me, and he also is a Southern Baptist)
I now put more Scripture verses on my projections on the wall than my own thoughts.
CHALLENGE 1:
I challenge traditional and modern evangelical churches to put your 3 point propositional alliterated ideas on a level LOWER than the Scriptures in your preaching, just as we have done. Its time to come back to the simple, organic, unadulterated words of the Bible, which fade not. Trust me on this one. The Bible speaks more profoundly than our books or sermons or fancy powerpoints. Let God's word be God's word again.
CHALLENGE 2:
I challenge Trainers and Educators to move away from the philosophical psychological How-To teaching series and choose instead to just ground people in the Bible - Stop being a motivational speaker and start being a preacher of the Word. Stop your pycho-babble and start giving out the pure word. Less sermon giving and more Bible reading.
BTW - i have talked to pastors about this and they have said that in their seeker driven churches, there is no way they could allow 15 minutes of pure Bible reading. Emerging Churches have no problem with Bible reading - as long as you want. In fact, a church in Prague read the entire New Testament out loud on the streets last Christmas Eve- it took 17 hours.
The people who are sending me regular email support to help me read through the bible this year are from the emerging church . .
need i go on?
For a fuller treatment of Don Carson, his criticism, his upcoming book and my thoughts, type these words into your Google search engine
”Don Carson, emerging church“ and see what I have to say.
What do you think? Are we a threat to the gospel? Or do we need to take a really good look in the mirror?
OK… You’ve read both sides… where do you stand? (Let the discussion begin!)
This is part two of a two part blog entry on “The Emerging Church”. Check this Wedneday’s entry for part one: Is the Emergent Church Movement a Threat to the Gospel?. Andrew Jones replies from his blog at TallSkinnyKiwi.com. Leaders Call Emerging Church Movement a Threat to Gospel. A recently developed way of envisioning church known as the ”Emerging Church Movement“ deals carelessly with Scripture and compromises the Gospel, according to a prominent evangelical scholar and a Southern Baptist seminary president.Comments
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Sue Gillespie on Fri, April 01, 2005
It seems to me that Dr. Mohler can’t break out of propositional thought long enough to tell the difference between adopting postmodern thought and accommodating it. I hear both him and Charles Colson talking as though emerging churches has dismissed truth as a concept: it seems to me that emerging churches recognize that postmodern people aren’t thinking about “truth” and therefore it makes little sense to engage them on the subject of truth in order to introduce them to Jesus. Mohler and Colson both act as though it is the mandate of the church first to convince postmoderns of modern epistomology, then to lead them to Christ through it. Sounds like a new form of circumcision….
Rick Fannie on Fri, April 01, 2005
I think that we live in a world that as changed from the last 30-50 yrs. Thinking speaking comprehending concepts as devolved in the last 30 yrs and we need to speek to people in the language they understand and inthat sense I accept the emerging church idea. On the other side the foundation that we build on must stay the same, if we delute that our christanity will fall from letting a weaker gospel to emerge in its place. I guess I am saying you can change the way you say it as long as you don’t change the truth of the gospel Pastor rick Fannie
bernie dehler on Fri, April 01, 2005
I think sometimes we get too smart for ourselves. Is it wrong to teach as Christ taught, and what He taught? For example, can we teach and illustrate the “parable of the prodigal son” or do we have to invent new stories for new generations and new cultures? Let’s not underestimate the power of Christ’s teaching.
I think sometimes Preacher’s get tired of it, so they have to do something new. Maybe the “new thing” should be making disciples, rather than creating “new advanced sermon formulas.”
Discipleship takes a lot of time and it’s not as flashy, though… It’s more fun to Preach… esp. in creative ways. Can you sense my sarcasm?
Yes, we need to make the Gospel culturally relevant… let’s also stay close to the teaching of Jesus… it’s more powerful than we realize… Stay close to the “red letters” (words of Christ).
...Bernie
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/247
Pastor Al on Sat, April 02, 2005
I have found that the greatest leaders are the ones who did not seek the job, but who had it thrust upon them!
bernie dehler on Sat, April 02, 2005
Al says:
“I have found that the greatest leaders are the ones who did not seek the job, but who had it thrust upon them!”
I understand… and don’t. If someone seeks God’s will, shouldn’t they then “seek out the job” that God directs them to?
...Bernie
http://freegoodnews.blogspot.com
Larry, b.1952 on Mon, April 04, 2005
Warning ... I only gave each article a quick scan!
Another battle cry? “Culture wars” “worship wars” “emergent wars” Why do we always seem to push differences into full-fledged (self-inflicted) wars?
Openness. Uncertainty. Ambiguity. Paradox. “Both/and” thinking. Ultimate Divine Sovereignty.
These are the limitations/blind spots of the Reformation project and the Enlightenment mindset.
Babies and bath water (yikes, that’s a scary image for this free-church traditionalist?) require wisdom, not warfare.
Haven’t we got better ways to expend the Spirit’s energies?
Daniel Zepeda on Mon, April 04, 2005
CHALLENGE 1:
I challenge traditional and modern evangelical churches to put your 3 point propositional alliterated ideas on a level LOWER than the Scriptures in your preaching, just as we have done. Its time to come back to the simple, organic, unadulterated words of the Bible, which fade not. Trust me on this one. The Bible speaks more profoundly than our books or sermons or fancy powerpoints. Let God’s word be God’s word again.
CHALLENGE 2:
I challenge Trainers and Educators to move away from the philosophical psychological How-To teaching series and choose instead to just ground people in the Bible - Stop being a motivational speaker and start being a preacher of the Word. Stop your pycho-babble and start giving out the pure word. Less sermon giving and more Bible reading.
I would have to agree with these two challenges. It is far past time to return to preaching the pure unadulterated Word of God and to ground our people in the knowledge thereof . The reason so many find it difficult to preach the Word of God is that they lack the authority to do so under the power and demonstration of the Holy Ghost. This lack of anointing makes many a pastor reach for secular methods of speaking and teaching. The result of this type of preaching is evident in our society in that it cannot change lives or transform them into Christ likeness. It is only when we who are called by God to preach make a determined effort to seek God sacrificially that we encounter what Christ promised all who seek to do God’s will, that is The Baptism of the Holy Ghost. It is this anointing that Paul spoke about 1 Corinthians 2 verses 4-14.
4And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of ?human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
6However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9But as it is written:
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”?
10But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the ?Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Let him who has ears to hear, hear what the Word of God is saying. The whole of humanity depends on our ability to return to preaching Christ and Him crucified. It is in this act of Godly love preached from our pulpits that will transform the heart of man and will bring light to our darkened society. Let us seek earnestly the audience of our Lord and ask of Him that baptism of fire that brings to bear all the Gifts of the Spirit and the anointing that the early church had that turned the world upside down for Christ. This baptism of the Holy Spirit is a promise unto us and unto our children until the Lord returns.
Let us be fully clothed with Christ’s Spirit and make full use of our authority as children of the Most High God, joint Heirs with Christ Jesus and not like the seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who preached Christ without the anointing and were bruised and made to run off naked.
Jade on Wed, April 06, 2005
I agree with letting the Bible speak for itself. As for reading out loud the Bible for a long period of times you are just asking to put your congregation to sleep. Unless you are really good reader.
You can read a lot of scripture in a sermon if you space it out.
I think we plan a sermon we should start with the word. Ask God to show us scripture He wants us to use. Then let the scripture take the sermon which way it should go. To many pastors start with a topic and then look for a scripture to back up their idea. Am I the only one who sees a problem with this?
I would like a blog entry todd on sermon planning. Just a request. back to the matter at hand.
I think the emerging church is right in some area and wrong in a lot of others. I do like the fact that they are saying the Bible is still relevant and we should teach it to the people.
with all respect.
BeHim on Fri, July 15, 2005
Here’s a question for the author or readers.
What EXACTLY is The Gospel?
Scripture defines it right? So what in SPECIFIC points is it?
Then, once we define The Gospel, are the churches teaching it.
Here’s the key. The Gospel doesn’t change “by perspective”. There is one Gospel and it MUST be defined before you start arguing which one is true or not true.
It’s been my experience many pastors/preachers/teachers (emergent especially) cannot properly state what The Gospel is.
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