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    Florida Pastor Cleans House:  Fires SIX Staff Pastors

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    After the meeting, the Senior Pastor was cleared of any wrongdoing.  In an attempt to bring some reconciliation to the staff, the deacons scheduled individual meetings with the six pastors for November 4.  When none of the six showed up for the meeting, the six were fired.

    Last Sunday, during the service, some members ‘shouted down’ Dr. Cummins, forcing him to cut the service short.  According to the newspaper, a ‘couple hundred’ worshipers crowded the altar, chanting “We want the truth”.

    Dr. Cummins says he hopes for reconciliation with the fired pastors.

    Whenever I report a story such as this, inevitably I will get emails telling me not to spread this bad stuff around.  I totally understand.  However, the reason I do report such things is I think they make great studies for every pastor and church to consider.  Here are some examples:

    1.  If you’re the senior pastor of a church with multiple staff, what would you do if you had a situation of staff mutiny?

    2.  If you have one person who needs to be fired, that’s tough enough.  But what if the problem extends to more than one staff members, or a group of staff members?  Are you willing to take the risk to do what you need to do?

    3.  If you’re a staff member and you have a problem with your senior pastor, how do you proceed?  Forming a coalition and emailing bad stuff and blowing off meetings with the personnel team didn’t work in this case?  How should you voice your concern?

    4.  What would you do if you were shouted down in a service, or if a good number of your people started chanting ‘we want the truth’.

    5.  How do you respond to the secular press, who always seem to have a heyday with this kind of thing?

    Without knowing the situation, it is impossible to know if these staff members had a valid complaint; or if they were just a bunch of trouble makers.  And that is not really the point of this point.  The point of this post is to see how things can go so, so wrong… and think through how you might respond to such a situation.  That could have a huge benefit you in the future of your ministry.

    So… what are your answers to the above questions?  I’d love to hear your thoughts!

    Todd
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    You can read more here and here.


    After being on the job just a year, Dr. Mark Cummins did the unthinkable: He fired six of his staff pastors; six pastors who were considered loyalists of the previous, long-term pastor. According to Ocala.com, the firings have caused a major rift in one of the areas largest and most prominent churches. in 2007, Cummings came on staff as the pastor, replacing 20 year veteran Rev. Ed Johnson. What was the main reason for the firings? The church is not really saying... other than an email sent to church elders on Halloween from the six staff that called the senior pastor "manipulative," "dishonest," and "untrustworthy". They followed up that email, calling for a meeting with the deacons, but were referred to the church's personnel committee. A meeting with the personnel committee lasted for nine hours, according to the Ocala newspaper...

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    1. Redfishon on Mon, November 17, 2008

      Todd,


      This guy is a serial church killer. Six years ago he took a healthy church here in Hollywood—running over 1000. Left it with a few hundred. First thing he did was to drop all the church missionaries—took car and house away from the pastor before him—these things had been given to him by the church as retirement.


      Bad guy.


      Good luck—the question is not about a staff mutiny—but a pastoral mutiny.

    2. Mark Triplett on Mon, November 17, 2008

      I’m not a senior pastor a senior staff member or do I play one on television, but I think that this shows why we should work out our problems in private.


      No matter if this church is in the right or the wrong, it looks like the church is wrong.


      Any church staff member should realize that this could be the result of a “mutiny”. I’ve rarely seen them work out.

    3. Trent Kirkland on Mon, November 17, 2008

      Todd,


      First, great to meet you at the Sticks Conference and thanks for Monday Morning Insight…it is awesome.


      Now, on to Mark Cummins. I have known him for 20 years and he is my mentor and best friend in ministry. Unlike Redfishon, I have no problem attaching my name to my opinion.


      Mark is the real deal, not a serial church killer. Rather than defend himself, Mark will continue to lead the church that he has been called to make a difference in the community and the world.


      It is sad that redfishon chose to use this forum to distort reality.


      Just for clarification, the email was sent to the entire church family, not the elders of the church, along with an automated phone message.


      Mark didn’t have to fire the pastors, they in essence fired themselves through their actions.

    4. Peter on Mon, November 17, 2008

      I came across this through Kevin McCord’s blog a little while ago - from what I’ve read there, it sounds like this pastor is bad news.  Reading through the comments @ the Ocala News site, it sounds like most church members are blissfully ignorant of the facts behind the whole goings-on.  The church had been warned prior to hiring this pastor about his past performance, but ignored that warning.  I do not claim to know the pastor or anyone involved personally, but from what I know of Kevin, I believe him to be a man of integrity.


      Sadly, I belong to a church now that had what you could call a “staff mutiny” or “deacon mutiny” or whatever.  However, the underlying cause was that the pastor couldn’t be trusted to tell everyone the same truth. Nor could he be trusted to be completely honest about the church financial situation. That ended up splitting the church when he walked out of the service after being told he couldn’t preach about the new church he was about to set up.  (Go figure.)  Half of the church walked out with him.  The other half was just stunned that this “man of God” would behave that way. We’re finally mostly healed, but it was a long time coming.


      I think that if you’ve got 6 staff members in agreement against whatever you’re doing, you’ve got a bigger problem than those 6 staff members. For one thing, there’s no unity and that means that it should be time for some serious prayer. Firing them and banning them from the church grounds is not the answer. In this case, it looks like all that did was escalate the problem into the public arena.


      I’m not really sure what I feel about it going public - on one hand, I don’t care for more bad press being slung around. However, I also would prefer to know about people that have problems like this follow their ministry. If this is a common occurrence, I don’t want to extend an invitation for this sort of pastor to be our next pastor.  If this is a one-time event, then it bears further scrutiny.  From what I can see, though, this is not a one-time event and should probably be taken a little more seriously as a result.

    5. bryonm on Mon, November 17, 2008

      I know on church staff, sometimes there is the mindset that it has to be handled like a business and sound business decisions have to be made.


      On the other hand, a church is a family; it’s a body. In a family, secrets are dangerous, divisive, and create instability. The situation needs to be brought into the light in a “family environment” where people can be ministered to. Let’s face it, these men have probably formed deep bonds with many in this flock and they need to know the truth and be ministered to if they are grieving the loss of friends and mentors.


      I know certain mega church pastors that hold conferences and sell tons of books would disagree. Some suggest that the fired staff should be escorted off campus by security as if they were bad corporate employees. Others suggest that if they leave, let ‘em leave as if they are an unbelieving spouse not content to live with a believer. I admit that this is an over simplification, Both Andy Stanley and Ed Young put these styles of staff management forward in audio messages and books they’ve marketed for staff development. But the Bible teaches reconciliation. And I’m not talking about the kind of psuedo-tolerance that we politely practice after a family member we only have to see at Thanksgiving or Christmas has wronged us. The Bible teaches real reconciliation.


      Obviously, we don’t have all the details about this situation. And after someone get’s let go, we rarely look back on the situation and say, “wow, I did that exactly right. I couldn’t have done one thing better.” That never happens. But pastors are not CEO’s no matter what the sycophants say. They represent Jesus who always extends the hand that leads people back into full, forward moving fellowship with Him.

    6. Lynn on Mon, November 17, 2008

      I visited Ocala recently and this story was the talk of the town.  It saddened me once again to see how the church presents itself before the world.  Even if the staff disagreed with the pastor, why not show up for the deacon meeting and state your case before the main lay leadership.  I would have dismissed them, too.  Then, for the “worshippers” to do that in a service that was supposed to glorify God,  shows that the MAIN thing was not the main thing that day.  As the church tries to impact a world that is falling further and further into decay, this kind of stuff kills the testimony.  Those staff members ought to be men of God and like Joseph trust God with the outcome.  This is a sad day for the church - demonstrating like gay marriage advocates who didn’t get their way.  I know that’s blunt, but this kind of behavior takes so long to get over and the church suffers in power and testimony for years.  I think it might rain in Ocala today but it will actually be tears falling off the face of the One who gave it all so their would be a church.

    7. redfishon on Mon, November 17, 2008

      Hey Trent,


      Guys I looked up to have messed up. The issue here is not what Cummings has meant to you. The issue here is the truth. Cummings obviously struggles with that.


      A guy who has been at multiple places—has the same things happen over and over again—and it is always all those other people who are wrong and he is the only one right—please!


      Read Peter’s post.

    8. Reay on Mon, November 17, 2008

      I have no detailsof the specifics of this situation, but as a senior pastor for more than seventeen years, all at one church, I have a couple of general things to comment on when it comes to church staff.


      First, loyalty is CRUCIAL amongst the church staff. I have said to my church staff on many occasions, “It really doesn’t bother me that you make mistakes. They’re going to happen. But if your disloyal to the ministry of the church, there are no excuses for that.”


      Second, in relation to hiring and firing staff, one pastor friend of mine said this: “Hire slow, fire fast.” I think those are good words.


      Anyway, just my 2cents worth!

    9. Russell Johnson on Mon, November 17, 2008

      The events in Ocala, although extremely regretful and damaging to the Body and cause of Christ, were not only predictable but predicted by many close to the hurting people of Hollywood, Florida.  It was only a matter of when - within a year or after a year.


      In the early days of Mark Cummins’ dismantling of the church in Hollywood, several business men in my own church shared with me the road map that many new CEO’s use in trying to make their mark on a new company.  Unfortunately, I watched that map followed to a tee and he certainly left a mark - the scars of pain, a lack of integrity and fruit borne out of the seeds of selfishness and the use of people for only one purpose, the success of Mark Cummins.


      Unfortunately, the leadership of Ocala was mesmerized by the same charisma and flattering words that blinded the judgment of many along the way.  Character is often difficult to discover from a resume and a few interviews - especially if a lack of integrity is a habit.

    10. redfishon on Mon, November 17, 2008

      Trent,


      Read kevmccord.typepad.com

    11. Kevin McCord on Mon, November 17, 2008

      I’ve shared 5 blogs on this topic in the past week.  It is very sad that it went public.  In Hollywood the folks who were hurt gave up the church they loved rather than go through a public split.  In the end, the Gospel didn’t suffer publicly, but the church is a mere shadow of its former self.


      FBC Ocala is headed down a different path.  What is clear is that no one will win in this sad situation.


      I have been impressed thus far with the way the 6 pastors have comported themselves.  They are very loved in their church and I’m not surprised some of the support from them has been passionate.


      I’ve given my professional life to helping strong pastors lead healthy churches.  I’m at a multi-site church with a new name with seven nights of worship.  We have 66 nationalities active in our congregation.  We are southern baptist!


      I can’t speak to FBC Ocala’s specific issue, but I did feel compelled to speak to the pattern that is so clearly emerging.


      I have never done something this public and I hope to never do it again.  I am not as brave as Todd.  I have made my bias in this obvious in my post and allowed all comments from all sides.


      God bless,


      Kevin McCord


      http://kevmccord.typepad.com

    12. Kevin Bussey on Mon, November 17, 2008

      I don’t know all of the facts of this church situation.  But from my own experience, this is par for the course.  I was the last of 7 full-time pastors on a large church near the Gulf Coast.  After severe pay cuts and firings I was the last staff member remaining after a year.  I’ve been on the side of a church who didn’t like the changes I brought as Sr. Pastor too.  The church made promises to me that they would follow the changes I thought God gave me.  I was gone in 2 years very disillusioned about the church. I’m still in the ministry but not serving on a church staff anymore for this kind of stuff.  Sad, and it grieves the heart of God.

    13. Ken on Mon, November 17, 2008

      I’ve been both a staff member on a multiple staff Church and have been a Senior Pastor for the last 16 years. During that time, I’ve had to let some staff go which is tough any way you look at it, and hire new staff. The hiring process is fun, the firing process is painful anyway you look at it.


      When asking a man who had worked many years with multiple staff what he would do should he go to another Church with staff he would inherit, he told me that going in, before the Church every voted on him, he would have an agreement in writing that all the staff would within the first 3 to 6 months turn in their resignation. Then at that point, he would have to the choice of accepting or denying those resignations. What it would do, he said, was to make the existing staff who were hired by another pastor understand their value to his leadership. Possibly had Dr. Cummins done something like that, the loyalty of these staff members could have been transferred to him because they would have felt valued for what they could bring to his team. But ultimately, I believe everyone in leadership wants to feel like they have their team around them. It’s why the agreement needs to be agreed upon by the Board or governing group, the congregation, and the existing staff before the individual is voted upon to become the new Senior Leader.

    14. Leonard on Mon, November 17, 2008

      Sometimes there are people in the church who believe they have the right to know every detail.  They believe they have the right to voice any opinion as well.  These two beliefs cause much harm in the Body of Christ. 


      When a senior leader does not treat the people who hold these beliefs in line with said beliefs, they are called a liar, dishonest, power hungry, deceptive and many worse things.  Some people blog about them with statements like “I heard” or “someone said”. 


      Todd, to answer your question.  Staff mutiny must never be tolerated.  It defies submission to God and to authority.  When it happens it must be dealt with.


      One problem is that some people do not believe the senior pastor has the right to be the boss.  They believe he cannot hold people to standards of doing their job with the right attitude and actions. 


      Jerry (Redfishon) you attend this church?

    15. Gman on Mon, November 17, 2008

      Maybe they should of took Perry Noble Words to heart and since they weren’t in their dream jobs to resign now!!

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