Monday Morning Insights

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    Giving Up, or Growing Up?

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    Another week.  Another “Thank you for applying, but...” letter from a church.  Some are rather pleasant, others more direct, but my file is already quite full of them, and I don’t have the desire to start a new folder.

    There are several strikes against me.  I have never led a church that grew beyond 100.  I chose to “step down” from preacher to youth minister in my 30’s.  I left my last ministry because of a new call...but that call was to my wife, allowing her to fulfill a dream and pursue her own ministry goal. 
    Because of this decision, I have been told in a couple of interviews that my “lack of commitment” to the ministry was a concern.

    I have spent the last few years working outside of a church.  Active in church, a teacher and elder within the church, occasional preacher, but not a paid staff member.  I have had some health problems, including recent surgeries.

    My guess, though, is that the number one strike against me is my fight against depression.  I am being treated, I am progressing well, God has brought some wonderful doctors and therapists into my life and He is retraining me.  That is good.  I fear, though, that from a church’s perspective, it is not enough.  Perhaps it will never be enough.

    I have to guess, since almost none of these letters give any real reason.

    “Your gifts are not the best fit.” “We have found someone else.” I don’t mean to dismiss those reasons entirely, but they give me no information that can help me improve.  Do I just wait until a ministry that attracts only the less competent opens up?  Somehow, that is not encouraging.

    I say this in confession, but I have not always mentioned the depression. 

    Or the surgeries.  I never mention them early in the process, and I only bring them up later when I am directly asked about health issues.  So, although I suspect those are strikes against me, I may be overestimating their impact.

    My wife has finished the project that brought us to this place, and we are ready to return to full-time ministry.  For almost two years I have been seeking a position.  Preaching, associate, urban, suburban, rural, small church, large church.  Everyone I know is praying for this to happen.  I have had my resume rewritten by a professional, I have had my cover letter scrutinized by friends in personnel positions, I have tried narrowing my focus and, when that brought no results, I have sent out blanket applications.  I have revised my reference list, I have crossed denominations, I have explored parachurch positions.  I have enhanced the videos of my best sermons with digital images of the multimedia I used during the service.

    It has not helped.

    All of this raises some real questions in my mind.  If (as I believe) it is actually God who is the “employer,” is it time for me to take the hint?  I believe that I have been called, others have confirmed the call, the churches I have served have loved us (for the most part) and I have loved them (ditto).

    Maybe, though, I was wrong.  There is an old story about a man in a field who sees “GPC” written in the clouds.  He takes this as a sign from God, and begins to “Go Preach Christ.” After some years of failure and rejection, he cries out, “Why, God?” The answer comes from heaven, “You misunderstood Me!
    GPC meant ‘Go Plant Corn!’”

    Am I that man?  Is there a point that arrives when I should no longer look at these as letters from individual churches, but rather as a sign from God that I am in the wrong field, doing the wrong thing?  I can preach (by the evaluations of others whom I respect and trust)...but does that mean that I am a preacher?  My academic credentials are solid, my teaching and writing skills have been acknowledged by others, I have had the privilege of seeing God at work in people’s lives and have sometimes been the improbable and unlikely vehicle for His grace.  None of that is relevant, though, if God wants me tilling the corn rather than preaching the word.

    So, for now, I continue to look.  But as the “thank you, but” and the “we have found God’s man (but you are not him)” letters continue to come, the question grows in my mind.

    If I stop looking, am I finally listening?  Or, put another way, could “giving up” in this case really mean that I am finally “growing up”?

    The following is a submission I received from a pastor. He asked that his name not be used (for obvious reasons). My guess is that there are many others reading this who are either in the same boat right now, or have been in these waters previously. Can you help this brother out? How do you know when it's time to move on? How do you know when it's time to just keep trusting? Read this well-communicated letter and give your input...

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    1. Ed Mooneyhan on Tue, June 27, 2006

      My heart goes out to you brother.  I am in a similar situation. 


      I suppose there are times when we are to put ourselves out there and find a place to minister and then there are times when we wait.  Waiting is the most difficult thing for me and possibly for you as well.


      “I believe that I have been called, others have confirmed the call…”

      This statement causes me to think.  We use it often as believers.  I often try to discern between my desires and God’s will for me.  You are no doubt gifted and have the desire to minister in the area of preaching, however, what you need is an encounter with God, a revelation from God. 


      One last word.  Do not let this apparent setback enhance your struggle with depression.  Your identity and mine is not and never will be found in what we do for Christ. Our true identity; our worth, value, expectations and especially our hope is rooted in the person of Jesus Christ.  He is our life.

       

      If you need to talk personally, you can email me by clicking on my name and I will give you my phone number.


      Hang in there brother.


      Ed.

       

    2. Bruce Gerencser on Tue, June 27, 2006

      This brother writes of an all too common scenario. It is easy for the man, after a time, to begin to question his calling or even his commitment to Christ. While self examination is proper and necessary, it can lead to morbid introspection and depression.


      It’s not always the preacher. It is easy to blame the preacher…....and sometimes the problem lies with him…....but not always. There are many a gifted man, called of God to preach, who will never be given the time of day because their resume doesn’t reflect what the Church is looking for.

      I have pastored six Churches over almost 30 years. I have sent out a fair share of resumes and sat through a fair share of pulpit committee interrogations. Rarely does spirituality come into play. It is all about what degree you have and what numbers you can put up.


      It is not just large Churches that do things this way. I am amused at the “requirements” some small Churches have. I have come to the conclusion that such Churches end up with the pastors they deserve…......Harsh? Perhaps.


      At this point in ministry life I have become far more selective about where I will go. Too many Churches want you to lay it all on the line, move cross country, and then a year later tell you it isn’t working out.. Sorry. Good Bye. Have a great life!


      I am in a similar state as the dear brother who wrote but , perhaps for different reasons. I suspect mine are more self-inflicted. I pastored for years as a Fundamentalist Baptist. Then as a Reformed Baptist. Then as a non Denominational pastor. See the progression? Unfortunately, I find myself as a man without a country. Every move costs you friends and connections.

       

      I am Evangelical in belief but progressive is what are the “social” issues. I am not a Republican. I am not a Bush fan. I am a pacifist. I don’t subscribe to capitalist economics.  I have sympathies for the emerging Church. All of this toether leaves me on the outside looking in. I am not complaining, but a man holding true to his understadning of truth can be left without a Church to pastor.


      Often the only option is to start a Church. But then, I am of the opinion we have too many Churches in America to start with. In Williams County, Ohio we have one Church for every 300 people. I would rather help a Church than start a Church. But it doesn’t work that way, it seems.


      A lot of Churches are on the “Know your spiritual gift” kick. Not a bad idea. But as a pastor try this…....visit a local Church you are considering for membership. When asked about your spiritual gifts…....say preaching and teaching. See how well that goes over.  There is little place for God called pastors in Churches they are not pastoring. Their gifts go unused, wasted.

       

      I feel for the writer. There are thousands just like him in this country. The problem may be “him” but I suspect the “system” has much blame also.


      Bruce

       

    3. kent on Tue, June 27, 2006

      Dear Brother,

      From your information it does indeed seem that you are both called and gifted for ministry. Please do not give up. That is easy for me say sitting at desk serving a good church. But I have knocked doors and sent resumes and gotten back the polite and short notes that do nothing for your soul. Your medical issue should not be a deterrant. Your depression is under care and control, besides questions about surgeries and depression are I believe illegal. I would not mention them. I do not know the extent of your surgeries or if there are issues which have arisen from from them, but again that is outsdie legal bounds, I believe. As to the time away from the church, that should not matter. You served your wife. In fact if you could get a face to face conversation none of the issues you have raised would be barriers.


      What is hard is operating with the congregational call system. With each songregation making its own decisions and receiving the hundreds of resumes to get a face to face or even a phone contact which might open doors is increasingly difficult. That is why leveraging your relationships become important. In secular world they call networking. In the church we call it living in the body of Christ. Do you have friends in ministry who can get you contacts, do you know people in various denomination that can recommend you? Ask them to help you, the worst thing that can happen is that they say no.


      Call committees are human, they serve the church of Jesus Christ, but they are still human. They are influnced by the same things so many people are. If you believe you are called hang in there. Maybe through this posting you might find a lead or two. It is hard to trust God through this process and it is easy to second guess yourself. Hang in there. It is not easy but it is worth it.

       

    4. MusicMan on Tue, June 27, 2006

      My dear friend, God is using you to minister to people on this very list (and to those who don’t write in).  Your ministry may not be in the 4 walls of a church, it may be to those in ministry and the business world who are hurting.  Life deals unfair and cruel blows.  It sometimes takes one who has been there, done that, “bought the t-shirt” to really minister to others who are going through the same things.  I will be praying for you.  May God pour out his blessings on you in a wonderful way.

    5. Aaron on Tue, June 27, 2006

      There seems to me to be little reason why some hiring committees hire one pastor over another. I have been hired at places that make me wonder if they had any clue. Even wonder if they should have hired me. I was not a “match” for the church. Not a good or bad just too dramatically different to be helpful. At the beginning of a newly hired pastoral position, I felt eager and “chosen” or “called”. Then as years went by and progressive hirings took place, I wondered if the committee was “possessed”. The same group that hired me. I can’t look for validation from them as to my skills or calling. Most of those on committees who hire would like to think they are enlightened. It has been said by Peter Drucker that the hardest single thing to do in any organization is hiring. And one ought to not think very highly of their capacity to do it well. I know that I am fallable. Very few have hiring experience outside of church. I think that is extremely vital to any hiring committee. But that may not make you feel any better. I would just take the time to hone your skills at a church that has a helpful environment and work there as a volunteer. And wait. I had to do that for four years. I continued to learn how to use my skills (whether that be Toastmasters, mentoring programs, spiritual mentor, and administrative jobs). Now that I am in a new place, I see all of these tools being very helpful in my present position and I would not had the opportunity to learn them on the spot.


      Not only do churches not know how to hire, they very rarely know what they looking for or are able to verbalize why one is not hired. Except for the ever vague “not a good match”; and the fact they hired a “good match” who leaves the church four years later because they are not seeing eye to eye.

      From a brother who has been in the trenches looking out. Hold on to the faith.

       

    6. Christopher Hastings on Tue, June 27, 2006

      I can sympathize when I was in similar situations. I was critisized for lacking in direction, initative, and commitment. I was railed for not working hard enough, looking hard enough or trying hard enough. I tried to do the things in between well, but they seemed like a great pause to something bigger and in the meantime I felt useless and worthless. Not because the job wasn’t there, but because I didn’t seem to have something significant in the meantime. If you can find significance in the meantime, to life, etc, then the task will arrive in perfect timing. Another thought that brought me comfort - is that even though I am now, some churches or people or jobs may not be yet. I may be waiting on them, rather than them waiting on me. And I would like to think that I would pray for them to be prepared perfectly even as I continue to get more impatient.


      In the job searching moment though - perhaps your field is not between our two fair oceans? There is a talent war abroad - and depending on where you were willing to go - you might be warmfully recieved - warts and all.


      My prayers are with you as well.


      P.S. I’ve never read it, so I recommend it blindly, but “What Color is Your Parachute” seems to be a VERY popular book about finding new jobs. It may not help you practically (I feel queasy about suggesting a job hunt book) but for its author - if true to my memory, he worked for the Anglican church and wrote it for Anglican pastors who were leaving the ministry and moving on. Maybe it’s pages will bring you insight and hope and comfort.

      Feel free to contact me if I can serve you in any way.


      Christopher

       

    7. adam on Wed, June 28, 2006

      Don’t give up.


      I do think that the concerns that churches have brought up to hold some validity, even if it is hard to accept. In the meantime, I would just continue to seek God’s direction and be the best helper, elder, prayer warrier, and teacher that your pastor could even imagine.


      It may not be comforting but perhaps God really is using this time to prepare you for something? I know I wouldn’t like to hear that… but than again perhaps it is what God is doing?

    8. Jade on Thu, June 29, 2006

      I am with everyone else don’t give up!  Don’t put too much stock in these search committees.  I also agree your medical history is non of their business.  Would they like you to ask about their medical history. 


      You were called by God.  Maybe God is keeping you from all the wrong churches so you will be available for the right church.  Enjoy this time for now.  Get involved in a church and share you calling with the pastor of that church.  If he is worth anything he find and avenue withing his church for you to serve.  Who knows he may even hire you.

      Just my two cents.

       

    9. Denise Miller on Fri, June 30, 2006

      Dear Pastor,


      As the Chairperson of our church’s Staff Parish Relations Committee(SPRC), commonly refered to as the “personnel committee,” I can tell you interviewing is a bear. I am troubled about some comments you made in your letter. First, you say you don’t always mention your depression. The second issue that bothered me was that you “mention the surgeries later in the interviewing process.” My question is, why would you mention this at all?

      Churches, like any other employer in country, are subject to the same anti-discrimination and ADA/EOC regulations. An employer is forbidden to ask age, race, religious affiliation, marital status, number of dependents and health questions to name just a few. At best, an employer may ask if there are any special accommodations that may be needed to meet the demands of the position. Each job position should list what physical, technical, educational and other skills are required. An example might be, “position requires being able to stand in place for long periods of time, ability to lift over 40 pounds, read with corrective lenses to 20/50, ability to hear hi and low sounds from___ to ___ , climb 50 steps etc.


      The search committee can not ask about medical problems or past medical/surgical histories. Even if a candidate is obviously disabled(perhaps an amputee), the search committee can not ask the candidate directly about it, nor factor the disability into whether or not to make a job offer. As I said, the only thing that can be asked is whether a candidate is able to meet the requirements of the job description with or without reasonable accommodations. Simply put, if a nurse is hard of hearing, the employer would need to provide the new hire with a special stethoscope in order for that new employee to meet the requirements of the job. Because this hypothetical perspective employee may or may not have an obvious impairment, the employee would read the job description and let the employer know a special stethoscope will be needed.


      Do all church search committees know what their responsibilities are under ADA or EOC? No! Most search committees I suspect, are composed of lay volunteers and members of the senior pastoral or office staff. Most have not been schooled or have HR backgrounds. Inappropriate questions, conclusions and discrimination occur out of ignorance I’m sure rather than from an attitude of discrimation or malice. (At least one would hope given these employers are faith based. ) However, ignorance of the law is no excuse. You may want to factor their ignorance into whether you would want to accept the position if offered. It speaks a lot about the organization and congregation.


      My advise would be to keep your medical and your family’s medical information to yourself.


      It’s simply not just based on the “need to know” premise. You will be helping these search committees to remain in compliance with federal mandates. I am confident that you would

       

      be able to gracefully deflect any inappropriate questions. Stop shooting yourself in the


      foot! 


      And stop be apologetic about your employment background. Face it head on. Anticipate questions, or more importantly, anticipate the questions not asked and address them up front. Be prepared with answers that are honest, not necessarily frank or candid. If you are having a professional rework your resume, ask them to give you some ideas on how to do this. They are wonderful “spin doctors.” Think of yourself as an item on a menu. How would you like to be described in that menu? Hamburger $4.00 or….. prepared perfectly to your specifications our signature ½ pound of lean juicy corn fed Angus ground sirloin hamburger served on a warmed, freshly baked on premises onion kaiser roll….” you get the drift. My husband often relays the story of his brief career as a salesperson. Going house to house as a teen, he would knock on tdoors and ask whoever answered, “You don’t want to buy a vacuum cleaner do you?.” He never did sell any vacuums. I can’t imagine why!

       

      Presentation is everything. Employers take notice when a perspective employee knows something about the business and the community or customers they serve. Do you homework. Attend a few services before applying. Get a sense of the current ministry to see if you feel a good fit. It ‘s akind to a reverse interview. Maybe you’ll just blend in or go unnoticed. Maybe not. Maybe they’ll remember you during the interview. As someone who serves on a search committee, I would be impressed with a candidate who went that extra mile before application to try to get to know us. I’d like to hear what they know about us(history, ministries ect)not to critique, but to let me know you where interested enough to learn what we’re about verses waiting to figure that out during the interview process or worse yet, after job offer. You might find your ministry seeking hunt more successful. Pastor, I will pray for you and family and your future congregation. God needs you. Go where he leads and grow where you are planted.


      Yours in Christian love, Denise Miller

       

    10. William Simkiss on Mon, July 10, 2006

      My dear Brother in Christ,


      Oh yes, the vicious and mind-numbingly vague “hiring process”!  It is weird.  If you can please remember that Jesus said He would build His church, told Peter to “feed My sheep”, and then left with NO details as to how exactly to do that!

      So I love in Acts 15 when the Apostles say, “It seemed good to us and to the Holy Spirit that ...”  In other words - “to the best of our knowledge, this seems right.  And if it doesn’t work, we’ll fix it as we go along.”


      What I’m saying is that while the Church is of God, it is also of people.  Trust God and Love (i.e., forgive!) people!  Be patient, trust Him for the outcomes.

       

      Please read the wonderful book, “The Critical Journey”, which speaks of stages of spiritual growth in our walk with God.  Written by Janet O. Hagberg and Robert A. Guelich


      William

       

    11. Ron on Mon, July 10, 2006

      Denise has many positive & valid points (unfortunately). Placing your best foot forward is desireable. Do you have letters of recommendation that can be submitted with your resume’?

      Some years ago I was asked to “resign” a ministry position. That led to a 2 1/2 year search not only for a position but also for a renewal of God’s purpose in my life. I asked God to please remove the “call” if I was not to serve in vocational ministry (I didn’t want to be miserable forever!). Ultimately, He did not and He saw it within His plan to open a new opportunity.


      You would think that after 6 “successful” years in ministry that the time out of ministry would be erased. Not! Every church that contacts me seems more interested in that 2 1/2 years than the other 15+ in vocational ministry.

       

      I have learned to be honest without lots of details. I have folks that I trust on my reference list that can address the circumstances surrounding that time. I am neither ashamed nor afraid, God taught me much during that time.


      I did (upon a friends advice) prepare a cover letter that included my entire walk with Christ and mentioned my time out of ministry within that context.


      Recently I was asked by a pastor during an committee interview “Why should we hire you?” While the question took me aback I responded, “You should not hire anyone until God speaks, and if He tells you to hire me or another candidate then to not do that would be disobedience.”


      I believe God has a special place selected for you…a place where your strengths will outweigh your weaknesses. And it will be good!

       

    12. bill on Mon, July 10, 2006

      Don’t give up!  In ministry, as in everything, it’s not what you know.  It’s who you know.  Churches commonly don’t extend beyond two degrees of separation.  They don’t typically hire senior pastors who have no connection to them other than a resume.  A church comes open and gets flooded with resumes from any number of qualified people so a church feels the right to be picky.  Make a list of pastors you know and contact fellow minsters who would be good references.  Your letter won’t cut it.  Why?  Because nobody in the church wants to take the responsibility for deciding to bring you on if you screw it up.  So a trusted outsider who refers you is the most open door to this opportunity.  It’s a carnal system and has less to do with spirituality and more to do with protecting the investment of the established congregation.  If you can assure the interviewing entities that the extent of your vision is to maintain the building, add some non threatening programs, and let them go by noon, you’re in.  In doing this you can help them maintain the illusion that they’re making a difference in their community by simply showing up on Sunday morning and paying their tithes.  

      Forgive my sarcastic tone and please don’t discount the truth contained therin.  Bro, do you have a living room?  Then you have a facility.  Do you know people who would come if you invited them to a time of Bible Study, worship, and prayer?  Then you have a congregation.  Would those people work with you to reach out to minister to the families, the sick, and the poor of your community?  Then you have a church.

       

    13. God is good on Wed, July 19, 2006

      After praying for you and rereading what you wrote, I would recommend a few additions to your resume.  Many churches have mission statements and core values.  Here is what I perceive your core values to be:  (I have written it as it could appear on your resume.)


      1.  Marriage.  Doing together for God, what we could not do apart for His kingdom.  Treating my wife like Christ treats His bride the church.  As your new pastor, I encourage this church to be an Ephesians 5:22-33 church.

      2.  Calling.   My wife and I recognize and support each others calling.  As your new pastor, I encourage this church to be a 1 Peter 4: 8-11 church.


      3.  Commitment.  I have been a shepherd in paid and unpaid positions.  As your new pastor, I encourage this church to be a Matthew 6:33 church.

       

      If this is your heart, then I encourage you to say them in this fashion.  “Father, thank you that You have walked every step with this couple that You have joined together, do fullfill this work of your hands, in Jesus name, amen”

       

    14. Lamarr on Thu, July 27, 2006

      I don’t know you, and it’s too difficult to discern in this type letter.  I do, however, know some ‘preachers’ who I believe are not where they should be, or are at least not living up to their calling.  They are dour-faced, NOT John 10:10, pessimistic people.  They may be able to preach a good sermon now and then, but when ministering to the congregation, they just don’t project God’s Love.  That love and desire to spread it is so contagious, it’s hard to reject for any reason.

      There may be many other areas you can serve.  You’ve done Youth Ministry before, you know there is still a need there (again, for a gregarious, loving person).  If you want to preach, join some of the downtown missions and preach to the homeless.  There are many small churches who can’t afford pastors in small towns - there are needs there.


      It is always easier to find a ‘job’ when you have a ‘job’.  Your confidence and what you project may affect this.  I hope you are in some way employed - Security Guard, fast-food management, construction, retail.  In these areas you will find both support and lots of folks who need ministering.  As you explore other areas, you calling will become sure.  You will either discover that you can enjoy something other than full-time ministry, or that you absolutely cannot.

       

      Praying for your John 10:10 life!


      Lamarr

       

    15. Pastor Peter-Damian Orogbu on Fri, July 28, 2006

      My heart goes out to the brother.


      I dont know if the brother has prayed about pioneering a fresh work instead of looking for a church to pastor!


      Then again, we must always bear it in mind that the call to preach does not mean a call to pastor a church.Ministry is not neccesarily pastoring, the brother seems to have identified some gifts that he has , especially writing

      He can preach through books, articles in magazines, even newsletters and tracts. The scripture tells us that “a mans gift will make room for him”. He should seek for ways to give his gifts expression.


      I pastor a church here in Nigeria which the Lord led me to pionneer and for close to six years the church has been under 100 people in regular sunday attendance, it began to give me concerns especially going by the writngs of church growth people like Rick Warren, Peter Wagner e.t.c and i began to doubt my calling and it began to affect my self worth and self esteem and even my marrige began to suffer as a result, until the Lord made me to understand that the church arm of the ministry was only 1/10th of what he had called me to do in the kingdom.


      Before long a monthly teaching magazine was born, our television ministry came on air with great impact reaching over 10 million people weekly in south east Nigeria, i began to organize conferences and leadership development seminars in cities teaching on spiritual warfare and other subjects that the Lord would lay on my heart, while all this was going on the church i pastor has still remained under 100 in attendance but my ministry today has reached millions through books, tapes, magazines, conferences, television.


      Our identity and our self worth is in who we are in Christ and not in what we do for chgrist and my brother should know that the gifts and the calling of God are without repentance.He is faithfull that calls, He also will do it .He that has began the good work in you will finish it.


      I will be praying for him as there is no distance in the realm of the spirit, and let me end by saying that depression is not simply a medical condition but a demonic affliction, i percive in my spirit that the brother is being spiritually afflicted ,so while he goes on medication and receive help from therapist, he should also seek ministry from ministries who have understanding of spiritual warfare and let them minister deliverance from that bondage to him in JESUS NAME AND THAT HOLD WOULD BE BROKEN!

       

      I say this from experience and from ministry, there is a spirit of depression that afflicts the minds of thousands of believers today and anti depression drugs only provides relief not healing it, does not mean that they are possed by demons, only afflicted because a believer has the Holy Spirit living on the inside and a demon can not reside there as well.


      SHALOM !!

       

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