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1. Michael on Wed, March 23, 2005

   

   Article: “What one factor might make you consider attending church?”

   
   I realize that is a popular question circulating the Christian church, but I have a fundamental problem with that question. The question is rooted in consumerism. It’s the same as a local restaurant finding out what the people want, and then preparing a menu around their wants. The problem is this, people’s tastes and wants will change. What is good now, will not be 10 years from now or 5 years from now. Do we need to meet the needs of our community? Absolutely. The key word being needs. What we want and need are often two diametrically opposed ideas. Consider a group of people who faithfully live out their relationship to God every day in every aspect of their lives, and you will have your answer. People will be attracted to that kind of truth, love, and authentic community. You will not have to ask the question of the one factor. That kind of community will be meeting needs, reaching people, praying for the lost, modeling truth, and loving God. That will be the factor that makes people want to attend. Success is faithfulness.

2. Pete King on Wed, March 23, 2005

   

   Here’s an even bigger question: How do you meet the needs of a community filled with churches who cannot get along. In small towns that seems to be an even bigger problem. Not only do you have to meet their need, but you also have to get their trust. Like the article said, 2/3 of the unchurched people in the United States call themselves Christians. Does this not reflect the condition of our churches. It speaks of two things. One, it says people don’t feel the need to be part of a church body to be a Christian. Obviously, this issue lies not whither church saves you but rather keeps you saved. How can we stay Christians when we are issolated by ourselves. That is why it is necessary to not forsake the assembling of ourselves. Number two, the church is missing its impact to change lives. Again, one could argue that isn’t true just look at the many Mega Churches that exist today. However, what we are forgetting to look at is the big picture. A lack of church attendance is not due to a lack of churches, but a lack of impact on the people that live around them. If people only see us going to church not making our voices be heard in our communities and witnessing to our neighbors than the only result is what we have now. We must find strategies that directly speak towards the problem, Spiritual revival. We need to wake up to realize that more and more generations will never know how or even what it means to be a Christian. Lets stop the madness. Pray God will bring change no matter what the cost.

3. W.J.M. on Wed, March 23, 2005

   

   Again, good stuff for thought.  I’m still working my way through some issues with some of this. 

   
   Article: “What one factor might make you consider attending church?”

   
   Uh….does the term WORSHIP mean anything here as a good reason to attend?  Ministry to the community is important as we reach out to understand and meet their needs. 

   Isn’t worship the primary purpose of meeting…at church…in that building…on Sunday? 

   
   My thoughts..unorganized as they seem to be flowing out here…is ....win them to Christ by our outreach, let their attendance TO church be their desire to worship.  THAT’S the reason to attend.  If it becomes something other than that, then Michael (in his post above) is correct.  It turns into consumerism and they’ll be gone from our churches as quickly as they came in. 

    

   Rambling thoughts on a cold day here…...hope the main thought came through.

    

4. Art on Wed, March 23, 2005

   

   Another question:  How do you focus on reaching the unchurched when the “churched” take up all of your time?

   
   How do you creatively get the churched to take care of themselves so somebody can focus on the lost?

5. bernie dehler on Wed, March 23, 2005

   

   Pete said:

   “Here’s an even bigger question: How do you meet the needs of a community filled with churches who cannot get along.”

   
   I agree.  This is a major stumbling block to all kinds of good that could be done.  It’s a trajedy.  Too many churches are focused on building their own empires…

    

   ...Bernie

   
   http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/247

    

6. Pete King on Thu, March 24, 2005

   

   W.J.M. brings up an interesting topic. Worship. It’s true. It should be the focus why we gather together on Sunday. But what has happened to worship? The problem with worship is that we segregate it like it is a particular part of the service instead of making it part of the whole. How many times do we see when it is time for the singing “worship” part of the service and the congregation is completely disconnected and dare I say it, bored or disinterested in what is happening on the platform. The reason I believe for this Phenomenon is that people are not being told that Worship is much larger than just singing. People who aren’t singers or they don’t like singing just go to auto pilot. We must teach them that every aspect of Worship is living our lives to please him and recieve what God wants for us when we come together. Once again, I think our problems are related to our inabilities to see church as more than just a spot in time we fill to ease our consciences. It seems that our congregations are not ready for worship because they don’t even understand what it really means to Worship God. Unfortunately, that is why our churches are not affective in our communities. We aren’t teaching them that being a Christian doesn’t just occur on Sunday morning. Just like a marriage, it is a relationship that is work to keep. We must live our lives to Worship and please God in all we do. In essence, congregations are mirrored images of their leaders and we must communicate worship as a lifestyle not a segment during our stay on Sunday.

7. King Elvis on Sat, March 26, 2005

   

   Franchising the church.  That’s the solution!  What we need is to get the best pastor in America to open up a franchise in every market in the US., similar to Starbucks.  What we’ve been missing all this time is the Starbucks principle:  People will pay top dollar for church if it’s the really quality stuff.  It has to taste good going down, you know.  We’ve been offering such low-quality stuff to the masses, and people just won’t put up with it any more.  They want the best.  They are dropping out b/c we aren’t professional enough!  Yeah!  That’s it!

   We need to sell people on church.  So it meets their needs.  No one needs more suffering.  It’s hard enough just staying awake on Sunday mornings, much less having to listen to talk like, “count the cost,”

   
   “take up your cross,” “pray without ceasing,” “to the ends of the earth,” etc., etc.  We need to dumb it down a little, so that people won’t be scared off so easily.  We don’t tell them up front that following Christ could mean hard work, early mornings, late nights, study, suffering, bleeding, persecution, all men hating you, giving “even beyond their ability”, etc., etc.  We need to profile people to see what their real needs are and to meet them.  I think that would be easiest if we just threw the Bible out right from the get-go to show them that we are “safe and fun for the whole family!” to quote a radio station that’s done a really good job of profiling the target audience, cutting down even on references to Jesus. 

    

   Prayer, too—it makes most folks pretty uncomfortable.  It’s quite confrontational when you get down to it.  We should dress it up, make it sound pretty, avoid anything personal—definitely no corporate confession or anything.  They might think that we’re saying that they’re sinful.  Sin.  Hell.  Ouch—those are both a little harsh for the needs of this generation, don’t you think?  We should do away with that touchy terminology.  Besides, it might offend someone.  People are mostly just downright good anyway. 

    

   More meetings.  That would help.  Keep them coming as often as possible to increase customer loyalty.  And to keep them off the streets where all the sinners are.  Huddle up, everyone, where it’s safe!

   
   That’s just the beginning of where we should find needs among today’s generation.

8. Todd Rhoades on Sun, March 27, 2005

   

   Feeling a little sarcastic this Easter Morning, “King Elvis”?

   
   Your tone is very much different than the author of this post…“When we see the needs of the people in our community, our heart should break. Not just because of the needs, but the reality that so many are seeking to have those needs met outside a relationship with Christ. We in the church know that the only complete answer to the questions of life is a vital union with Jesus Christ.”

9. Daniel Zepeda on Sun, March 27, 2005

   

   My heart does break at the condition of the body of Christ today. We the church have raised a generation of lukewarm believers and we are paying the price in the lack of love and maturity of our congregations. We have failed to follow scripture in the assignments of our pastors, elders and deacons. We have used the offices of the church as rewards to those that give lots of money or to those that are influential in the community in hopes to guarantee these persons continued support. Support that we in our carnal mind dare not antagonize lest we lose the money they give or the influence they have. Because of this lack of trust in God, the examples of leadership we offer the saints are no different than that of any major corporation; leadership full of natural wisdom devoid of the presence of God.  We wonder why pastors are over worked and burned out yet the answer is that we have not assigned mature believers to the positions of leadership that meet the qualifications of scripture, in many cases they are just novices when it comes to their relationship to Christ despite their years of church membership.

   
   That is why Art asks “Another question: How do you focus on reaching the unchurched when the “churched” take up all of your time? Michael in his post worries about consumerism in the church that is not an idle worry, but one that is widespread and growing among us. The church was never meant to be sustained by selling bar-B-Q, or anything else. The church is supposed to be supported by the giving of the people from what God has blessed them with. The fact that the majority of the people don’t give is that leadership is not capable of leading members of the church to a real encounter with our risen Lord that would free them from the materialism of this world.

   Then you have King Elvis stating in his post, “Franchising the Church. That’s the Solution!” Is he being sarcastic sure he is! Why? Because we are already franchising the church. I know of several nondenominational churches that have franchising plans in place that will help a modern church increase income secularly ie. Day Cares, Christian schools etcetera. These activities are not bad in themselves; but often are the reason we don’t have sufficient staff to teach and mature the members of our congregations.  Not having sufficient mature elders and deacons always leads to preacher burnout if the situation continues unchecked.

   
   Why do you think our Lord took the whip to the money changers and over turned their tables? The people were being taught that you could buy your forgiveness instead of personally seeking the Lord. By assigning the offices of leadership of the church to the rich and influential we are practicing the same thing the money changers were when Jesus put the whip to them. There is not one of us (me included) that has all the answers, but there is one who does and we must seek his audience. Let us turn to him and seek that baptism of fire that only He can provide that will empower us to accomplish all that he has predestined us to do for the Kingdom of God.

   
   In order to meet the needs of the community we must first meet the spiritual needs of leadership and members. Once people learn and hear that people are meeting Jesus at a particular church they will come and when they meet our risen Lord they will stay. Leading them to Christ is our greatest challenge.

    

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