Helping People Leave Your Church Graciously
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, July 16, 2007
- Viewed 157
- (43) comments so far
I think I touched on this last week… I am many times discouraged by the number of stories I hear about churches who are struggling because of people who are fighting tooth and nail against the leadership of the church.
As Craig points out, it’s important to leave the back door open a crack. Some people in your church will, inevitably, keep your church from moving forward. But how do you help these people either get the vision of your church or leave graciously? That’s a great question, and I’m glad that Craig is tackling this subject. We’ll be watching this week’s posts with you… it should be great. Here’s post #1.
QUESTION FOR TODAY: Honestly now… do you feel like your church has people that need to leave? Why do you feel this way? How are these people derailing your churches mission and future?
Craig Groeschel is starting a new series this week at the LifeChurch.tv Swerve Blog on people who need to leave your church. Craig asserts that "occasionally, there are some church members who need to leave for the ministry to move forward. These people might be miserable. Maybe they hate change. Perhaps they care more about their own needs than the needs of others. If someone is directly opposed to the direction God is leading your church, we should do our best to lead them to embrace the vision. If you’ve tried and tried and continue to fail, you may need to gently, lovingly help them find another church." I wholeheartedly agree...
Comments
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Peter Hamm on Mon, July 16, 2007
Stephen,
Your response to my “hymn thing” example accidentally made my point, but perhaps I should clarify. (Thanks for the insight, though!) I agree that there is much richness in mining ALL of Christian hymnody, from Bach to David Crowder and everything in-between. (Our church does VERY few hymns, but I used TWO this weekend.) I merely used music as an example of a non-essential whose arguments often result in disunity.
However, let’s look at the imaginary story of Jack.
Jack becomes a member of a church that does NOT use the hymns as a rule and even explains its thinking on this in its membership class (whichJack attends) and other communications (which Jack has seen and read and heard), and Jack argues that it should and begins creating problems for leadership because of his view. In that particular case, Jack would be the one who should use the door, and if the vision is kept white-hot, he probably will before it becomes a problem, perhaps even without having a bad experience if everyone behaves maturely. That is really my point. Music is a secondary issue. If it were the authority and inspiration of scripture or the deity of Christ, I would hope that Jack would just get the heck out as soon as it becomes clear, but stylistic issues, if they are already spelled out when someone joins a church, should NEVER be an issue. Done deal. If it ain’t your thing, find something that is. THAT is what I meant…
Troy on Mon, July 16, 2007
I am one of the people who should leave because I dislike the contemporary music, am unhappy with the pasator’ rejection of the dispensationalism and the pre-trib rapture, and dislike the debt the church has gotten into with the new building project. However, changing churches is very stressful.
Leonard on Mon, July 16, 2007
Stephen Riches,
I in no way suggest that the bible’s standard is not forgivness, I do however say that asking someone to leave your church is differnt than forgivness. We are not unforgiving becasue we ask someone to not be in the church we pastor or lead, we can be totally forgiving.
Gary on Mon, July 16, 2007
We have had people recently leave our church because of a conflict and it turned out to be a blessing. We found this out after they left. Their lack of heart for our church came to the surface.
stephen riches on Mon, July 16, 2007
Peter:
Thanks for your clarification concerning your personal views relating to the “hymn” example, as well as your hypothetical story about Jack. I’d like to respond concerning Jack, for a moment.
You make a great point about Jack having to evaluate the importance of the issue. As in your example, the deity of Christ vs. a choice of different music….obviously quite different in degree of importance. And you also make reference to Jack arguing and creating difficulties for leadership. And this is an issue of degree also, and a valid point.
But still, assuming that Jack is sensitive in his approach to advocating change, I wonder if Jack should, in fact, decide to stay with his new church and be a positive influence (“salt”) rather than leave simply because the church happens to have an overly narrow musical repertory with which he is dissatisfied. Because no church is going to be perfect, as has been stated already. And another church might be narrow in other ways. And if Jack does decide to stay, and assuming that he were to have a similar background to myself with extensive musical training and experience, should we consider it wrong for him to share his educated views on the subject and make recommendations for broadening the musical spectrum simply because someone who had arrived sooner had previously used their influence and perhaps more limited musical perspective to create a narrower focus in the first place? Would that not be a waste of God’s gifts, and the years of imparted wisdom and experience He bestowed upon Jack?
And, might it even be possible that Jack had actually felt led by the Lord to come to this church in the first place to provide something that this particular church, and not the more like-minded one in the next county, very much needed? Nineveh was far from perfect. But it was in God’s plan to send Jonah to bring about change. And going instead to Tarshish was not an acceptable alternative to God. Jonah apparently had reasons for not going to Nineveh. Ironically, one of them was God’s patience, compassion, and forgiveness of those who change their misguided ways. Jonah felt that warning the people of Nineveh about coming destruction was a waste of time, because God would relent and have compassion if they repented. (It seems to be a twisted bit of logic on Jonah’s part, but there you have it anyway. I suspect that contemporary church goers can probably be every bit as irrational, given the opportunity.)
The point is, that someone has to bear the bad news, in order for change to ever happen. And, change is always perceived by some as bad news. Change is rarely, if ever, unanimously embraced. And although we no longer kill the bearer of bad news, I believe we shouldn’t even encourage the messenger to exit through the open door simply because their message isn’t “mainstream” and might make waves. And yes, I do make a distinction between “making waves” and “troublemaking”, as discussed previously. Jesus’ message made waves. But it was still a message of love, joy, and peace, despite its upsetting revolutionary impact. It was not designed to make trouble, but rather to motivate people to change. In fact, even my message here, is designed to stir up thought on the subject or “make waves”. But it is certainly not intended to hurt or to offend anyone. And even though it has the potential to offend because it challenges existing opinion, I hope it will inspire and motivate in a positive way instead.
One final note. The very word “repentance”, in fact, means change. And that’s why spiritual repentance, like all change in our lives can be such a stumblingblock. In fact, the very presence of a recommendation for change suggests that we currently don’t have it right. And the thought that we could be wrong is sometimes a very difficult concept for many of us to accept. It took the world two whole centuries and the needless deaths of 200,000 more people for the scientific world to accept the value of vitamin C in treating scurvy. And Galileo was ushered out the “open door” by the Church for daring to suggest that the sun and not the earth was at the centre of our solar system. Proving, I guess, that humanity would rather kill the messenger who refuses to be silent on “controverial” topics, or allow ourselves to perish, rather than be willing to change our minds and “live more abundantly”.
Leigh on Mon, July 16, 2007
Yes, there are people who need to leave our church. Sad, but true. The problem comes when people do not submit to godly authority. Don’t be confused I am not talking about a dictatorship, but a plurality of elders who have been reviewed and found to be approved by the body. What happens in our church is mostly related but not limited to doctrinal issues. We are a completely independant non-denominaltional community church that most closely resembles a Baptist doctrinal stand. This information is made available to everyone and is covered in new members classes and yet, there are people who seem to be at our church purely to argue their case and bring division among the body. When this happens, then there seems to be a spiral into the self. I guess that really is the bottom line, people who are self focused instead of God focused try to make church about themselves instead of about God, His Word and encouraging one another in Christ. Anytime the focus of church is other than worshiping God, preaching/teaching His Word and leading people to Christ, then things are out of wack! Church is supposed to be a place of love, however, love does not include enabling those who profess Christ in their sin. A divisive spirit and unity among the body can not co-exist. We all come to Christ in different ways and times and we all have differnt worship styles - why do people choose a church for what it is and then work so hard to change it to be what they think they need it to be? I don’t get it! If the Lord has truly called someone to a body of believers, stop complaining and resisting and start searching for what He has for you in this place.
Peter Hamm on Tue, July 17, 2007
Thanks Stephen.
Good point for sure, but I have encountered far more “Jacks” like I described than you did. You asked [And, might it even be possible that Jack had actually felt led by the Lord to come to this church in the first place to provide something that this particular church, and not the more like-minded one in the next county, very much needed?] Well, on this particular issue, maybe not. To be “led by the Lord” to go and join a church for the purpose of effecting stylistic change or adjustment? Possible, but I doubt it.
As for Jonah, let’s not forget that he was just about the worst prophet of the Blbie. I wouldn’t want to follow his example in ANY fashion. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/wink.gif
But if Jack is able to evaluate the importance of the issue and let things go that have to go, that’s fine. But, again, I have not encountered that kind of Jack. I have encountered the backbiting, complaining, dissent-stirring kind far more often.
Dave Talley on Tue, July 17, 2007
Todd, there was no way I could read all of the comments, but all of them that I read supported “helping” people leave. When I was growing up they called it “running people off.” I’ve seen it happen many times.
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My mentor in ministry had a saying though, “We want to ‘win’ with people.” People are our ministry and we reach them where they are. Do some of my people annoy me and get in the way of what I see as God’s plan for our church? Yes! But God is the judge, not me. If He wants them out - He can move them. However, I have no plans of encouraging people to leave. I do what I can to push them to change, but I’m not some kind of Jr. Holy Ghost.
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I’m not here to build an organization, a program or a budget. I’m not the holy vision enforcer. I’m the leader - a leader leads, he does not dictate or drive. As Joshua of old, I can say, ‘As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.’ If the people follow - GREAT! If they do not, they will answer to God and not to me.
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Again, the people do not exist so that “we” can build a church, the church exists so that we can build people. True, Jesus is building the church universal; and, in so doing the local church will grow in number (I hope) and in spiritual maturity. Those who are true believers need me and I need them even if they are obstinate and abrasive. In fact, they need me more if they are backslidden and in a rut than they do if they are on fire and charging the gates of hell.
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Sorry to respectfully disagree with the posts that I read - but, I just can’t see the “shepherd” being happy to help a difficult sheep to leave the fold (or swap folds). I’m not for shaming people into staying if they feel God wants them elsewhere, but they ought to know that I am sincerely sad to see them go.
stephen riches on Tue, July 17, 2007
Hi Peter
I appreciate your points. It is certainly true that backbiting, complaining, dissent-stirring people create many problems. And that is both unfortunate and divisive. It can be an easy trap for any of us to fall into when we perceive important issues being unaddressed. And appropriate action by elders is sometimes needed to curtail such tendencies. Perhaps, I might hope, short of suggesting that the open door be used, however.
But as far as Jonah being one of the worst of the prophets, all through history, God chose those in whom we ourselves would probably have taken a pass. Murderers hardly seem fit as leaders of God’s people, for example, and yet that’s who God chose in Moses. We might have chosen Aaron….noted by Moses as the better speaker…..to go to Pharaoh. But it’s not about who we are. It’s about whether or not we are willing to surrender to his will and be used by God. As we know, our Lord was accused of associating with “sinners and tax collectors”, a phrase of the time to denote the most unworthy and despised in society. These were the ones, like Matthew, or Zacchaeus, whom Jesus chose to become “instruments of His Peace”. Jonah did eventually surrender, openly confessed his sin, and was used by God to save Nineveh, though admittedly not with a very generous and loving spirit.
I do sympathize with you, however, and hope you don’t encounter too many more of those “miserable types who just seem to want to stir up trouble”.
Steve Riches
PT on Tue, July 17, 2007
Dave,
Kudos, I appreciate the perspective you have added! You also used a phrase that triggered a strong recommendation. A great resource in helping us all deal with difficult people and situations is John Maxwell’s book, “Winning With People.” I know he has published a zillion books and that there tends to be much repetition in his books, but I believe this is his best and most valuable! (also, an easy read)
PS: I assure I have no association and will receive no royalty for my recommendation:)
Chris Shaffer on Wed, July 18, 2007
As a living organism, the church/body of Christ is a complex entity; a mosaic of humanity. It is comprised of many individuals who come together under the headship of Christ, bringing with them unique characteristics, talents, and perspectives. The Bible clearly describes how God created each person with specific gifts designed to contribute to the overall development of others; how each role, no matter how large or small, is significant to the overall health of the collective whole (1 Cor 12; Eph 4).
While it is clearly obvious that God uses those within the church to accomplish his will, we often forget that he is just as capable of using those outside the of the body of Christ with equally remarkable results. A quick scan of the Old Testament reveals how God used various people groups, both holy and unholy, to accomplish his will. A glance at the Gospels shows God using a variety of religious leaders, governmental authorities, and occupying solders, in conjunction with diverse men and women of faith, to bring about his good pleasure. Perusing the Book of Acts and the remaining New Testament epistles reveals God’s use of persecution, hardship, and dissention, both internally and externally, to shape the church.
Perhaps the people we are talking about here, those people we believe need to leave our congregations, are truly there be design; a thorn in the flesh so to speak, provided by God to stimulate creativity and disrupt the phenomenon of groupthink. It has been said that “groups need deviants for creativity” and that “by its very definition, creativity is deviance (Griffin, 1982). Maybe we should be thanking God for the people in our church who challenge our thinking and understanding, who pitch a monkey wrench in the machinery; those who seemingly strive to derail the group mentality; those who seem bent on deviating from the established course of the group at large. It could be that they are there by design.
P on Wed, July 18, 2007
I had a very, very difficult weekend with a former pastor/mentor in which I told him that our church wasn’t for everyone, and he told me very firmly that I was completely off base to think that. My friend told passed along the clear directive of his former teacher Howard Hendricks to “put the cookies on the lowest shelf,” and said that if we knew of anybody who left we needed to find out why and fix that “problem” as quickly as possible. I spent that weekend with him at probably the lowest point in our little church plant’s history.
A year and a half later, having done exactly the opposite of everything he said, we’re thriving.
It seems this sense of openness to people leaving on account of the diversity in the Body is embraced much more fully by younger (“emerging,” whether “emergent” or not) pastors. We had always said among our leadership team that we embraced the idea that many would visit and few would stay, that we were serving those whom God drew to us when they stayed and serving those whom God was drawing elsewhere when we helped find that “elsewhere.”
A few of our leaders didn’t really get that, didn’t really like that, and resisted mightily. They had to go. Some went easier than others (with one it was really ugly), but they went. And now it feels like the parking brake is off. The Lord giveth, and he taketh away, and I’m really grateful that he tooketh these folks.
ElderElder on Mon, July 28, 2008
I’d suggest y’all need to read Gordon MacDonald’s “Who Stole My Church”
Better to help parishoners change that just migrate with their same stuck ideas. They’ll never be happy with any congregation that’s doing the Great Commission!
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