How Would You Respond to This Lesbian?

Posted by: Todd
Posted on: Mon, September 21, 2009
(60) comments so far

How would you reply to this lesbian?

I was chatting with friends the other night, and we came across the topic of Christianity.

One of my friend, let's call her A, is 31. And my other friend, B.

Me: So,how did you two (A and B) meet again?

A: We met at a church. I was a church leader and B was one of my 'students' there.

Me: (confused) Why did you stop going back to church then?

A: I didn't. They (church people) said that I must repent of my "so-called" sins. If not, I can't return there. And I didn't repent because really, what has my sexual orientation gotta do with my faith?

It's really very pathetic how Christians drive us away from church just because of our sexuality. You see, one thing I found out about these self-proclaimed Christians is that they don't really follow what the Bible says most of the time, but when it comes to the homosexuality part, yes they tend to get very serious about it. Which is, in here, discrimination again. So tell me, pastors, didn't God tell you to love your neighbor as yourself? Why do people have to make drama out of our sexual orientation and kick us out of Church when 'normal' heterosexual people cheats and lie and do all kinds of other 'evil' things?

Seriously... how would you respond?

If you're gonna type all the verses about homosexuality is a sin, stop now. Seriously. I will delete your comment. That's not what this post is about. Those have already been used on this girl. They didn't work.

Some of the comments here really give some good insight...

My question for you... doesn't she have a valid complaint that we put homosexuality up on a pedestal while we look the other way at heterosexual sins? Not always, but many times, we look at affairs and divorce as just things people go through. We sit them off the choir or praise team for a few months, then we're good.

Should/how should the church reach out to this girl?

Do we really believe she needs Jesus?

If so, how do we reach her? Seriously. How do we reach her, holding true to our beliefs that homosexuality is wrong biblically, but knowing that that will be the ONE THING in her life that will keep her from Christ.
Your thoughts?

Comments

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Dave Z on Tue, September 22, 2009

Adultery and other sexual sins have been mentioned, but an affair is not the same things as a continual lifestyle…usually. But let’s say a pastor finds out he has a couple in his church, say, on the worship team, that attends sex parties - a continuing lifestyle of sexual sin. Should that not be dealt with? Should they just be welcomed?

That’s the difference between a gay lifestyle and an affair - affairs typically end - gay lifestyles often do not. Repentance vs. refusal to repent.

And that’s where 1 Cor 5:11 comes into play, and it’s very clear. Do not associate. The implication is the loving welcome must stop.

@ those who would welcome this woman, what do you do about that 1 Cor. verse?
Matt Parkins on Tue, September 22, 2009

I Cor 5v11 is about brothers and “with such men do not eat”. Lesbians are women surely? (I jest)

I would use 1 Cor 5v12 to counter that argument. Mere attendance of a local church service is not the same as being part of the Church (ie the global body of believers that name Christ as Lord). Being part of the Church does require repentance and belief, but merely attending a service and getting to know people that are part of the Church does not require repentance & belief.
Peter Hamm on Tue, September 22, 2009

I came in late. But it’s simple to me.

Todd asks [My question for you… doesn’t she have a valid complaint that we put homosexuality up on a pedestal while we look the other way at heterosexual sins?]

Yes, we often have.

But I would argue that that is not the real heart issue here. This person probably does not want us to treat all sin the same, this person would rather we decided, as many have, that homosexual behavior is somehow not wrong according to Scripture. Although “fighting this battle” is not my defining issue, I’m unwilling to decide that the Bible is wrong or mis-understood. The often-heard (these days) argument that the Bible might actually not condone homosexual sin is interesting but incorrect.

The problem is simple. Most people that want me to have an “open mind” about this issue, don’t actually want that. They actually want me to change my mind about the issue and agree with them. That is their definition of an “open mind” and it is intolerant.

I would still love this person and welcome them in my congregation, but after they actually got in a sexual relationship of any kind with a student who was presumably a minor? They will never lead children nor will they even be alone with one in my congregation. I’m protecting the children.
CS on Tue, September 22, 2009

Peter:

You’ve got to knock it off. I find that you and I are agreeing way to much here recently. =)

—
CS
Neal Phillips on Tue, September 22, 2009

This is a dilemma that is growing significantly in the modern church. We are called to rebuke sin (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Unfortunately, we pick and choose whatever is at the forefront of our civic debate. The modern-fundamental church is notorious for that (I am a part of that same body & STAFFING). We focus on the Democrats in power, abortion, same-sex marriage, etc…and we ignore gossip, premarital sex, godlessness. The church - and myself - have to get more consistent with our walks and our love for God & others to EVER merit our comments/judging of the sin of others (Luke 6:41-42).
Peter Hamm on Tue, September 22, 2009

CS writes

[You’ve got to knock it off. I find that you and I are agreeing way to much here recently. =)]

Yeah, I read your post and found that annoying.

Peter
Ministerviv on Wed, September 23, 2009

Wow! We have made quite a few assumptions here…

First, the article mentioned that all three were friends, and that A and B knew each other. No where was it mentioned that A and B were in any type of sexual relationship. Just because they were friends does not mean that they were sleeping together. If “friends” meant that, then you would also have to include the writer of the article. Just because ‘A’ said that she was a lesbian, that did not imply that anyone else in the conversation was homosexual. So, we cannot judge her based on having a relationship with a student. ‘A’ said that SHE (and no one else) was asked to leave the church because she wouldn’t repent of her “sexual orientation.”

Second, she only mentioned a sexual orientation, not sexual activity with another person. She contrasted it with ACTIONS that heterosexuals seem to get away with in the church. How many of us have propensities toward sin that we are not necessarily committing? How many of us are kicked out of the church for being attracted to people (even of the opposite sex)? A lot of posters have approached this with the assumption that she is acting upon that orientation.

Whoever told her she had to leave the church because she did not repent of her sexual “orientation” (not behavior) was dead wrong! The Bible says that we are to restore one another in love, and that we should never forget that we, too, could be overtaken in a fault (yes, we all have them) if we are not careful. Since when do we think that we have more authority than Jesus when it comes to rebuking or legislating against sin?

When Mary came crawling on her knees to worship Jesus, no where did it say that she repented or stopped doing what she was doing prior to worshipping Him. Even as others were telling Him “what kind of woman this was,” He did not ever say, “Woman, stop your prostitution and get away from my feet!” He welcomed tax collectors, prostitutes, adulterers and sinners of all kinds into His presence, and HE LOVED THEM! That is what caused them to turn away from sin. Too many of us are scared to love people without condemning them, as though this means that we are condoning their sin.

Yes, we are to teach and preach the Word of God, but it is not our job to tell people that they cannot come to church until they stop sinning—whatever type of sin that may be. If that were the case, none of us would have the right to be there! “Loving your neighbor as yourself” includes extending to them the same grace that we would like to receive when we need deliverance, healing and forgiveness, in whatever area we happen to struggle.
Tammy on Wed, September 23, 2009

All I can say to all those who take the scriptures literally is, as soon as you are following LITERALLY all the other scriptures in the bible besides the ‘don’t be gay’ ones, THEN come on back to this topic and let us know how you are doing.
Steve Long on Wed, September 23, 2009

Ministerviv,
I would be interested in seeing how you process I Corinthians chapter 5.
CS on Wed, September 23, 2009

Tammy:

“All I can say to all those who take the scriptures literally is, as soon as you are following LITERALLY all the other scriptures in the bible besides the �don�t be gay� ones, THEN come on back to this topic and let us know how you are doing.”

How would you literally interpret 1 Corinthians 6 and Romans 1?

—
CS
David Sheffield on Wed, September 23, 2009

I would tell her that sin is sin and should be called that whether it is homosexual sin or heterosexualsin. I would tell her that if her friends were truly asked to leave the church and not come back that either there is more to that story than what her friends are telling or that particular church, or at least some of its members, are not living up to what the church is supposed to be. The Church is supposed to be a hospital for broken, bleeding, and dieing souls. Not a country club for saints. So those with sin issues should be not only welcomed but invited to attend the church. Spiritually speaking our churches should look like a MASH unit with our people being busy prepping souls to meet the ultimate physician and once rescued carrying out the therapy prescribed by the Doctor to insure that they not only survive but thrive.
Then I would tell her that she is right about loving your neighbor and what she and her friends need is the love of Christ, not the wrath of the Church.
I would then invite her to our church where they would be loved as people even though the church doesn’t agree with their lifestyle. If we can’t disagree with someone’s lifestyle yet still love them, how will we ever reach out to those who truly need Christ? I would tell her that we would love her, teach God’s Word, and let the Holy Spirit handle convicting her heart when He sees fit to do so. We are merely vessels for the message; we are not the message itself.
I would also remind her that God & church people are not one in the same. People, no matter how devout and loving, are imperfect and do have a tendency to react in error and please do not let that destroy your view of the perfect God. We are an imperfect people worshiping a perfect God and while we mess up sometimes, we are doing the best we can.
Tell her I love her and will be praying that God will bless her & her friends with peace, righteousness, and a church family that will live God’s Word the way it was intended to be lived.
brad on Wed, September 23, 2009

There seemed to be a process in the life and ministry of Jesus that was consistent (though not always linear) in disciple-making (read: sanctification). These process-parts happened concurrently, at times; separately, at others.

Jesus had a ministry that was with the ‘multitudes.’ The crowds gathered and often, for their own reasons. No one suggests that a crowd is a church. In the crowd were all manner of people at all stages of spiritual formation. Some were very far from God and were determined to stay that way (at least when they showed up in a crowd). Others in the crowd were ‘not far from the kingdom of God.’ And others, like 11 out of the 12, had decided to follow Jesus, while wrestling to understand what that might mean, or where that might take them.

This prolonged discussion about ‘letting someone come to church’ presupposes that everyone in your Sunday morning crowd is, in fact, ‘the church.’ And I kinda doubt that. I more readily believe that what you have on Sunday morning is a crowd, a multitude, with all manner of people there, at all levels of spiritual formation.

And I also suspect, you kinda like that because you know this is a terrific starting point for people (or re-starting point).

Being part of the ‘church,’ is a different discussion. And being part of leadership in the church is a different discussion, beyond that. We know the Bible speaks to those issues. Leaders have weightier requirements than do others in the ‘church.’

Jesus modeled this: He spoke to the crowds; He invited all to follow, and regularly, would meet in smaller settings with His closest followers to give further instruction or illumination about ‘life in the kingdom.’ It was in the back-and-forth of these discussions, that the disciples ‘worked out their salvation;’ that is: what it means, how it looks, how it applies, and how to move deeper and deeper in levels of love for and trust in Jesus Christ.

And…the disciples were allowed close proximity to the Savior, even on days when their ‘get-it’ factor was low. Why? Because the overall trajectory of their life, the intent of their heart was to love Him, learn and follow. In this way, (three steps forward, one step back) the disciples kept making forward progress; became stronger and lived more and more the life God created them to live.

Some of us have had seasons when we were not ready to do that in life (or in an area of life—i.e. sexual behavior). We ‘opt out’ of life in the kingdom, a pursuit to learn and follow Jesus on ‘the way.’ We go our way, and God lets us. And, if Jesus’ model can be followed, He also lets us show up in the crowd ‘just to listen.’

Why? Because those in the crowd around Christ, are those who became followers of Christ, over time.

The greater the display of ‘intent to learn and love and trust and follow Jesus,’ the greater participation in the full life of God’s kingdom and His church. No perfection expected; just overall progress.

Perhaps my sister (and I am proud to call her ‘my sister’) would be well served, if she was invited first, to be part of the crowd around her church. Then, it would likely be transformational, if she could become part of a smaller group of Jesus’ followers, so she could experience examples of love, hear more about the life God designed, and have time, in a safe grace-filled environment, to ‘work out her salvation,’ that is, figuring out how to love Jesus more deeply, follow Him more closely and live the life He created her to live.
David Sheffield on Wed, September 23, 2009

Awesome explaination brad! The church does a great disservice to not tell the truth but we also do a disservice to not even let non-believers into the crowd to listen.
Door Knobs on Fri, September 25, 2009

that is bad, i mean if we look around there are people in our daily lives, our own kids and family doing something or the other wrong, WHO KICKS THEM OUT OF THE HOUSE, saying you are wrong….NO!! one should always be comforting just like God, even if someone is wrong thats their personal matter and Guide them by being Close to them rather than making them stay away from you or the church…GOD!!!!!! the world has changed
Randy Wood on Sun, September 27, 2009

I would love them…. to the ends of the earth