Hullabaloo in Kalamazoo: Billboards Confront Strip Club Patrons with Bible Verse on Lust
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, December 15, 2008
- Viewed 137
- (98) comments so far
There. I got your attention.
Did Jesus condemn sin? Absolutely.
Does the Bible tell us right from wrong on sexual matters, lust, and the sanctify of life? Yeppers.
Did Jesus treat people in the same way these signs do? Never?
How did Jesus treat the woman at the well? Or Zachaeus? Or the rich, young ruler? Or the prostitute? Did he carry a sign or rent a billboard? Did he immediately condemn them before talking with them?
All of the above signs will lead you to a website called JesusChrist1st.com, which, I’m quite sure Jesus would not recommend.
How did Jesus act when meeting the adulterer or the fornicator or the pervert or the prostitute? That seems to be the first question we should ask ourselves. Then we should try to treat them as Jesus would, and minister to them as Jesus would.
Question for you… WHAT IF: Signs like this actually turn more people AWAY FROM Jesus than lead people TO Jesus? I, for one, think they do. I wonder, in eternity, if people that use this form of evangelism will be cheered for the tens they have impacted FOR Christ; or judged for the thousands they have turned AWAY FROM Christ.
What do you think?
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It's all happening in Kalamazoo, MI:
A billboard next to Deja Vu (An adult entertainment club): "Anyone that looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28.
Another billboard outside a Planned Parenthood, "How is an unborn baby not a human being?" (Jeremiah 1:5)
And yet another outside two bars known to have gay and lesbian customers: "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman: that is detestable." (Leviticus 18:12)
Could it be that the people who read these signs will never accept Jesus because they want no part of a Jesus is just as condemning as these signs?
Comments
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zad on Mon, December 15, 2008
I have never ceased to be amazed that even in the modern church we continue to throw stones at the office of those who would be prophets. Prophets frankly preached the law, and the consequences of disobedience. And they often did it “in your face.” I’d love to see how our “mercy gifted” folks would have handled Jeremiah, or Isaiah. (Geez Jeremiah, can’t you tone it down a bit? I mean come on… “fish hooks! you can’t go around saying people are going to be judged by God and lead out of here with hooks in their noses and jaws!”) I think I remember several “so called” prophets who hated men like Micaiah, that always told God’s truth, judgement or not, if you liked it or not.
I remember some who told Jeremiah to shut up and quit telling the people to give up and stop fighting the invading army because they were fighting God and His judgement of their sins.
I think it was Luther, or perhaps Wesley, (its been a long time since I read it) that said, “you must preach the law FIRST so people understand their need of grace.”
Many misunderstand Jesus message and the context. He came to a culture saturated with law. Judgmental people ruled (literally) through that law. There was NO mercy, it was about pefection. His mesage of forgiveness brought relief to those who felt they had no hope because they were lost and horribly apart from the law. (To those who felt self righteous he preached warnings of hell, because they hid behind their law keeping and had missed the spirit of the law.)
What I’m saying anybody can complain about how someone didn’t “befriend the stripper” or show the trucker coming to visit her a good solid friendship. Its always easy to point to that stuff.
But somewhere there is STILL a place for the prophet in our church. Someone who says, “You are going against what God says to do.” And maybe even, “You are a wicked, evil person and far from God, and you are on the edge of being judged forever!”
That makes it a lot easier when their lives are falling apart and they need a hand, or someone to help and listen for those of us with mercy gifts to rush in and pronounce forgiveness available if they turn.
My message today is simple… STOP THROWING STONES AT OUR MODERN OFFICE OF PROPHETS! With one side of your mouth you praise Isaiah telling of the coming savior, with the other you slander his modern day counterpart who puts up the law outside of strip clubs on billboards! STOP IT. Learn to work together! We need BOTH in the body!
Zad
zad on Mon, December 15, 2008
Wendi, My above message gives you examples of Jesus using the “in your face” with no relationship method. He did it with Pharisees who “thought” they were okay with God. He woke them up pretty quick… “you broad of vipers… who has warned you to flee from the wrath to come?” I argue Zac, and the woman in adultry were different, they KNEW they were wrong. Everyday they heard it from billboards in their culture, in fact the woman was about to be judged and killed under the law. Believe you me, she GOT the message of the law and she realized she was on the edge of permenant judgment - death. It was the love and forgiveness offered through Jesus at THAT point that allowed her to repent.
Point is WE NEED BOTH!
michael dixon on Mon, December 15, 2008
I can only go back to my own experience. And it never seems that I have to go very far back. As a sinner, confronted by Christian street preachers, billboards and bumper stickers—-I could be belligerent and argumentative to a fare-the-well. I stayed lost, I got more lost.
I was saved by being overwhelmed with the message of what Jesus did for me in surrendering his place with God in heaven to come to earth and die on the cross for me. I was saved by being flattened with the notion that the king of all kings gave his life for me, long before I lived, long before I admitted I needed him.
Once I was saved, I read about the woman at the well, and the woman caught in adultery, as well as Lazarus’s sister after his death, as well as about Peter on the night Jesus was btrayed and realized these were all representations of me and where I had been and what God’s grace did for me. It is His grace that will not let me go.
And I thank God for all those people, who knowing, seeing, feeling, experiencing what an incorrigible reprobateI was, chose to keep sharing what Jesus had done for me. Absolutely extravagant…just pouring out good news for me at every chance.
I would ahve turned on them in a minute if I thought this was a trade..I give an admission of my sin, then I get salvation. I was way to sick for that. It was what Christ did for me so impossibly long before I lived that just broke my heart and made me look up.
Rev.K on Mon, December 15, 2008
Solomon said in one of his many proverbs… “the way of man is right in his own eyes…” if we fail to show man what God says, then man has a way of justifying his wrong doing… there’s a difference between condemnation of sinners and condemnation of believers… Paul said, “therefore there is no condemnation of those who are in Christ…” he didn’t say there’s no condemnation of those who are sinners…. if a person is living outside of Christ then he/she is condemned already…
The purpose of the law is to show man his/her sinfulness and the end result of those sins…
I learned a lesson from my brothers whom I love dearly… one of my brothers who were always under my wing… when he was living in sin I constantly warned him about his sins… he never thought what he was doing was sinful until I showed him what God had to say about the matter…. and as a result he confessed his sins, he gave his life to God and now is living for Christ…. on the other hand I have another brother in whom I love equally… he too was always under my wing… but this brother I didn’t warn about him about his sins out of fear that he’ll be mad at me and wouldn’t want to be around me anymore… well this brother that i failed to warn… continued in his sins, never repented of his sins and got incarcerated as a result of his sins… one day I visited this brother in prison… and the meeting was bitter but sweet… he asked me a question that has stuck with me to this day… “Brother, why didn’t you never warned me of the sins i was committing? Don’t you love me? I noticed how you would always warn our other brother about the wrong he was doing…I noticed how you always pointed out what the Bible says about what he was doing…but you never warned me…. it wasn’t until the judge sentenced me and it wasn’t until I picked up this bible that I realized the wrong i did… brother, you could of saved me from this agony if you have warned me of my sins…” I love both of my brothers equally… but I failed wherein I didn’t give one of my brothers God’s Word…
we can’t take it for granted that people know about the sins they’re committing… if we do, many would wind up like my brother who’s in prison… because they way of man is always right in his own eyes… we must show them what God has to say about the matter
CS on Mon, December 15, 2008
Wendi:
“CS – Zacchaeus, the adulterous woman, the woman at the well; none of these people gave any indication of repentance until AFTER their encounter with Jesus. Please find me one example where Jesus used this type of “in your face with no relationship” method.”
Sorry to almost sound like Bill Clinton, but this all depends on how you describe the word, “relationship,” in this context.
In most modern use of the word, “relationship,” this requires building up a rapport or friendship over time. We develop an intimate knowledge of each other. I go to your house, you go to mine, we know the names of each other’s kids, etc.
Now, if we describe, “relationship,” in the short form of even striking up a conversation, then yes, Jesus had, “relationship,” with them. But even those were short.
For proof, consider the rich young ruler. He rolled up to Jesus and hit him with a question. Jesus replied back with the Law, thereby pointing out the man’s sin. That wouldn’t qualify as a, “relationship,” much, would it?
Or, consider the woman at the well. The conversation with Jesus starts off on a sour note as He asks her to draw water. Then Jesus springs her with the Law, supernaturally pointing out her myriad affairs. Again, would this have been a, “relationship?”
Now, if you’re looking for an example of someone who had no relationship with anyone, read something and came to repentance, I’d point you to Josiah in the Old Testament. He had the temple renovated, they found the Book of Deuteronomy, and he was immediately convicted. Absolutely no relationship there, and yet the sins of his nation caused him to get right back in line with God.
So, relationship or no, these words can convict people and I stand by the church doing this action.
—
CS
zad on Mon, December 15, 2008
Michael that doesn’t make sense.
What good is grace if you don’t see how much you need it?
Example, here I have a box of oranges at my house I’m willing to grace you with. They are yours… free for the taking.
Don’t want them?
Hmm…. now lets put you on a ship with scurvy and the Doctor says you’re gonna die unless you get some vitamin C SOON.
Those oranges look good now?
My point again is you don’t need to “like it” when the prophets are telling you “turn or burn.” But when it finally sinks in, then someone sees their need of grace and THEN it is overwheleming.
Frankly what was overwhelming about the grace of Christ in your life if you DIDN’T realize how hopelessly lost you were and how much he loved you enough to take your place on the cross?
You have to “get the law” to “get grace.” We need the prophets to bring the law.
Tim Lett on Mon, December 15, 2008
I really don’t think that this has as much to do with the presupposition that we are going to be turning people away as it does with our unwillingness to be seen as “politically incorrect” in a day where everyone is just waiting for a chance to cry, “foul”.
Absolutely, it is imperative that we confront sin for what it is. Jesus never pulled back from calling sin what it is. And, Jesus never pulled back from compassion. There is no reason why confronting sin with compassion for the sinner cannot co-exist. In fact, they must co-exist.
Peter Dodge says that, in this, the church is stepping outside of its purpose. Not so. It takes all means, as Paul said in I Corinthians 9:22. I would submit that confronting sin is part of preaching and showing God’s Love to others. Just look at Deuteronomy 8:5 and Hebrews 12:6. If we are here to do the work of God, which Jesus personified, do you really think that we should just turn a blind eye and not call it what it really is? That helps no one, especially the one involved directly.
Then the statement is made, “We don’t need to preach what sin is or isn’t.” I suppose that does away with the need to “speak the truth in love” as found in Ephesians 4 and the exhortation to “reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction” as found in II Timothy 4. Furthermore, you can’t read Proverbs and come away thinking that wrong living and wrong thinking doesn’t need to be addressed. Addressing these things is part of delivering the Gospel. “And you shall call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their SIN.” Tell you what, let’s just leave off the last 3 words of that verse so that He can just save His people from whatever they want to be saved from…doesn’t have to be sin…just let it be anything in this day of real-good-feel-good preaching. Let’s just leave sin totally out of the equation, as is the manner of some, and no one will ever know that they need to repent and be saved….oh yeah, from their sin.
Then, the statement is made, “Where in the Bible does it say that the church is the one who convicts and draws people to repentance. Not one place. The high and mighty pompous hypocrites in the church are not preaching what Jesus preached.” Correct, the Church is not the convicting and drawing agent. That is the job of the Holy Spirit. However, the fact that it is His job does not negate the call to action for the church. As for “hypocrites” in the church not preaching what Jesus preached. You have to be reading the Gospels with blinders on to think that Jesus did not address wrong thinking, wrong motives, and wrong living. Jesus was NOT a pansy just tip-toeing through the tulips.
Yes, Jesus does save - then He cleanses. But, how shall they believe if they have not heard??? I believe that is a good New Testament question. No one was ever saved without being confronted with their condition of needing to be saved. People don’t just get saved by osmosis.
As for sending more people to hell than Oprah - give me a break!!!
For the record - I completely agree with CS. Sometimes it takes a “shock” to awaken people out of their stupor. It is our job to lay the truth out there. It is NOT our job to respond to the truth for those who are receiving it. We all have a responsibility to respond to truth…and to the Truth. I am not responsible for one who sees truth and rejects it. I am only responsible for providing an avenue through which the truth can be seen. We have to get away from the mentality that the results are based on us and on what we do. Jesus said that He would build His Church. We are called to continue His work and to be faithful, not to do the building. The Bible, in Acts 2:47, says that “He (the Lord) added to the church daily….” And, wow….just looked at that passage again. Doesn’t look like Peter was to shy about addressing sin when in Acts 2:23 & 26 he addressed the fact that men, by wicked hands, crucified Jesus. And, he called them in Acts 2:28 to Repent. Oh man, how could they have known from what to repent had their sin not been addressed and confronted???
So, I guess we can address the fact that men crucified Jesus but we need to leave the little stuff alone.
Bottom line - You can confront sin without being ugly to the sinner. You can confront sin without beating down the sinner. You can confront sin with compassion toward the sinner….and we must.
lulu on Mon, December 15, 2008
i saw a billboard years ago , it said jesus saves, i saw it hundreds of times on my way to work and back, i would dream about that sign, it was huge, about a fifty by thirty, i would think about it from time to time, that billboard is still there thirty years after i was saved. and i still think about it today, it convicted me all the time untill i did get saved, but now i thank god for that reminder that i saw every day away back then.
Rev.K on Mon, December 15, 2008
Zad…amen…C.S. amen… amen…amen…
we must stop watering down the Gospel… if we keep watering down the Gospel eventually we won’t have any substance…
Tim Lett on Mon, December 15, 2008
Lex wrote: “...I’m an example of someone who was faced with this kind of “Christian” response and I hated it. It pushed me further and further from wanting to ever go to a church again, but years later I’m a student ministry pastor. So if we say these things are too condemning and they’re pushing people from Christ, are we limiting the power of the Holy Spirit? It’s our job to preach the truth, and the Holy Spirit’s job to draw men to Jesus.”
Lex, thank you for saying this. I, too, have had to be confronted with things…sin. I would say, along with you, that I hated the confrontation. But, in reality, it is not the confrontation that we hate. It is the fact that we have to acknowledge that we are sinful. That is what man really hates. Man does not want to acknowledge his own sinfulness.
I would submit that it is not the confrontation that pushes man farther from God and from the church. It is man’s response to the confrontation that pushes his own self away. Truth seeks out and draws. Man’s sinfulness causes him to run and hide, just as Adam did in the Garden of Eden.
Gary H on Mon, December 15, 2008
I am blessed that several sides of this issue have been presented. We absolutely must reach out to those that are most hardened and it is not easy. I agree with what zad says there are many different parts of the body that need to engage on this front. It is easy to point out the error of the self righteous throwing stones at the sinner and then throw the same stones at the prophet or the front line warrior.
It has been my experience when ministering to these hardened cases (like sexual addicts, crack addicts, etc.) that an unusual amount of these are actually backslidden Christians! They benefit from a life giving rebuke. Sometimes we’re called to leave the 99 and go after the one. Its hard to understand and even easier to falsely judge.
I want to encourage the front liners, those in the trenches, with the same fervor that I am thankful for the soldiers that fought in ‘Nam or in the gulf. God bless you and remember He is the only one you have to please. If we don’t reach them - who will?
bishopdave on Mon, December 15, 2008
CS sure is making a lot of sense.
Rev.K on Mon, December 15, 2008
a Gospel that tells men they could sin and live any way they want and not repent is what Paul called “another Gospel” and Paul said “if any man preach another Gospel let him be cursed…” this new age name it and claim it messages that’s being preached has caused much harm… I get so sick of preachers telling sinners, “this is for you, that is for you…without telling them that salvation from their sins is available…” these type of preachers would be in opposition to John the Baptist… who called the people a generation of vipers… what is needed today is the raw truth… not this bubble gum preaching and half truth reaching…
I agree… before the people were able to accept Jesus Christ they first had to hear John the Baptist warning of their sins…
Rev. K
CS on Mon, December 15, 2008
bishopdave:
“CS sure is making a lot of sense.”
Sorry, it must be an off day. I’ll make up for it somehow.
Gorbachev sings tractor! Turnip! Buttocks!
=)
—
CS
Rev.K on Mon, December 15, 2008
it wasn’t until the prophet warned David about his sins, David was able to confess them… David didn’t see no wrong with what he was doing until God’s prophet pointed out the sins… ‘thy are the man…” David had to be shown his sins… then and only then did David repent..
unless the people are shown their sins they’ll never repent…
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